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Thread: School zone for teachers question.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    School zone for teachers question.

    Hi everyone. I teach at an inner city high school and would like to clarify some laws regarding school zones. Since receiving my CHL and starting to carry while I drive, i have been having to stop outside of my school zone every morning, unload the rounds from the magazine, lock my gun in the center console, ammo in my glove box, and then enter my parking lot and lock my car before going in. The way the law reads, to the best of my knowledge is that you only get about15 minute window or carrying in a school zone if you are directly in the process of picking up or dropping off a student. They o not take into account teachers or staff at all. Is there something i am missing, or have the people who work in schools been left completely out. I mean I will do what I have to do and what i have been doing, but it would be nice to get clarification on to whether i can park on the lot, then unload. Or even if I didn't have to unload and could just keep it locked up and secured in my car (wishful thinking I know). I do wish there was some type of text in the law that stated staff at schools, and not just parents dropping students off. If anyone could help me clarify or find more info i would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

    Brett
    NEO Open Carry

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    Even an unloaded gun is illegal. Notice the law doesn't say "loaded" anywhere, just that firearms are illegal in school zones.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122

    Even if you have your CHL, you still can't enter a school premises with a handgun unless you are picking up/dropping off a child. Even then you can't leave your vehicle.
    Last edited by RT48; 10-25-2012 at 10:54 AM.

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    Re: School zone for teachers question.

    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    Even an unloaded gun is illegal. Notice the law doesn't say "loaded" anywhere, just that firearms are illegal in school zones.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122

    Even if you have your CHL, you still can't enter a school premises with a handgun unless you are picking up/dropping off a child. Even then you can't leave your vehicle.
    Yes but it gets iffy when he has a CHL and does not leave the vehicle WITH the weapon on him. The unloaded weapon is locked securely in his vehicle.

    Still I would venture a guess that it will still be considered illegal.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    clarifying

    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    Even an unloaded gun is illegal. Notice the law doesn't say "loaded" anywhere, just that firearms are illegal in school zones.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122
    I checked with the Mahoning County Sheriffs office (not sure who i talked to, it was last year), and they told me as long as it was unloaded completely and locked in my private vehicle that it was fine. I mean if this is not the case i need to know so that I may remain within the law, but it is scary if it is true, because I drive through some very bad parts of town to school and feel i have a right to feel safe on my commute to or from school. I mean if i have to i will completely disassemble the gun daily if it means i can still carry for my commute. Please if anyone knows more specifics let me know.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    clarifying

    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    Yes but it gets iffy when he has a CHL and does not leave the vehicle WITH the weapon on him. The unloaded weapon is locked securely in his vehicle.

    Still I would venture a guess that it will still be considered illegal.

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    That is where i was confused as well. Until i can resolve the issue i am going to be extra cautious and not carry. I am also going to get written permission from the board of education so that there is no question about legality. I do think this is a larger issue worth exploring. There are many teachers who have their chl 's and would benefit from wording that would clarify this issue.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    I checked with the Mahoning County Sheriffs office (not sure who i talked to, it was last year), and they told me as long as it was unloaded completely and locked in my private vehicle that it was fine...
    It is very good to know what a LEO's opinion is, just be aware that if he is wrong, you go to jail, not him. They are often wrong, especially with firearms laws.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It is very good to know what a LEO's opinion is, just be aware that if he is wrong, you go to jail, not him. They are often wrong, especially with firearms laws.
    True. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever rely on a LEO to tell you what the law is. Ever. Ever. That ain't his job and he is not responsible for being wrong! Ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    I checked with the Mahoning County Sheriffs office (not sure who i talked to, it was last year), and they told me as long as it was unloaded completely and locked in my private vehicle that it was fine. I mean if this is not the case i need to know so that I may remain within the law, but it is scary if it is true, because I drive through some very bad parts of town to school and feel i have a right to feel safe on my commute to or from school. I mean if i have to i will completely disassemble the gun daily if it means i can still carry for my commute. Please if anyone knows more specifics let me know.
    Mahoning County Sheriff's office is dead wrong. Read and understand the law. You could lose your teacher's certification if caught with a gun on school property (and your right to bear arms), although there is that exemption if you could actually get written permission from the school board. Good luck with that.

    I also work at a school although I am not a teacher. I just keep 400+ computers and the school network running. It's a private school but as much as I would like to carry to/from school, there is no way I would inform either the principal or the board of trustees that I am a gun owner. There is just too much irrational fear about guns in the educational environment.
    Last edited by RT48; 10-25-2012 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    Yes but it gets iffy when he has a CHL and does not leave the vehicle WITH the weapon on him. The unloaded weapon is locked securely in his vehicle.

    Still I would venture a guess that it will still be considered illegal.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
    Yes, it is illegal. To me this is clear:

    (A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone.

    (B) No person shall knowingly possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone.
    You won't find anywhere in that section where there is an exemption for an unloaded firearm.

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    Not only is what you've been doing unlawful, it likely violates personnel policies of the district in which you teach, and I highly doubt your collective bargaining agrgeement nullifies any district policies about having weapons of any sort on school property. So you are risking termination.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Checked with LE Liason

    Hi everyone, thank you for your posts, and like I said, I have stopped the practice until I can get everything worked out. I have talked with the Mahoning County Sheriff Liason to our district, the Chief of Security and he has informed me that at least in our district, they do allow teachers to have handguns in their car as long as they never leave the car and remain locked in the car. He recommended getting a safe that I could bolt in the car to keep a student who breaks in to my car from accessing it, but said that as long as it was locked in it was ok. But like you said before, it is my license and legal action on the line and I am also verifying this with the school board. I have written a letter of request to our board of education President requesting that he grant me permission in writing to have my weapon secured in a locked car on school ghrounds during school hours. I am waiting for a response from him and will let everyone know as soon as I get one.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    I also think that their is a lot of bad information going around out there about this law, from my chl instructor, to the sheriffs dept. I think education is definitely in order. I also think that this is a law that specifically needs a provision for teachers being able to keep a firearm locked in their vehicle. It is not right that I do not get to feel and be safe on my way to and from school. How do I go about starting this change? Who do I write? Who do I talk to? I am very confused as to what I do to advocate for a change. Thank you guys again so much for all the great info and time you put in to this!

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    the Chief of Security and he has informed me that at least in our district, they do allow teachers to have handguns in their car as long as they never leave the car and remain locked in the car.
    Regardless of what the CoS states, ask him to get the DA to make a public statement for teachers. if you are arrested by an Ohio state trooper the incident may go a different way. Officers do have police discretion, but not all of them are the same. Just as there are great people like the CoS, there are jerks who would dare make the rest look bad, or even assistant DAs who are trying to make a name for themselves. A headline of, "Teacher brings a gun to school" is not something any of us want to see in the mainstream news.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Regardless of what the CoS states, ask him to get the DA to make a public statement for teachers. if you are arrested by an Ohio state trooper the incident may go a different way. Officers do have police discretion, but not all of them are the same. Just as there are great people like the CoS, there are jerks who would dare make the rest look bad, or even assistant DAs who are trying to make a name for themselves. A headline of, "Teacher brings a gun to school" is not something any of us want to see in the mainstream news.
    Definitely agree and that is why I am waiting for written approval from the board before I will again. I do have to say thought that our school deals exclusively with the Mahoning County Sheriff's department and all of the deputies they have sent out have been really awesome. I know there are probably some bad ones out there, but the ones I met are really great. They have very informed conversations with me about guns, gun rights, and open carry in general quite often. Hats off to the deputies I have met.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    How do I go about starting this change? Who do I write? Who do I talk to? I am very confused as to what I do to advocate for a change. Thank you guys again so much for all the great info and time you put in to this!
    Since this law needs to be changed at the state level, I hope you know who your state senator and state representative are. There are two gun rights organizations in Ohio that work to get pro-gun legislation introduced and passed:

    Buckeye Firearms Association
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/index.php

    Ohioans for Concealed Carry (* See below)
    http://ohioccw.org/

    Anytime pro-gun legislation is being considered, write your legislators. If your current legislators are anti-gun, then help get pro-gun legislators to replace them.

    * Some of the people on this forum will give you a very negative and one-sided view of OFCC because they butted heads with the forum moderators. Somehow I have managed to post a couple thousand messages in the OFCC forums since it was created without any negative repercussions.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    Since this law needs to be changed at the state level, I hope you know who your state senator and state representative are. There are two gun rights organizations in Ohio that work to get pro-gun legislation introduced and passed:

    Buckeye Firearms Association
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/index.php

    Ohioans for Concealed Carry (* See below)
    http://ohioccw.org/

    Anytime pro-gun legislation is being considered, write your legislators. If your current legislators are anti-gun, then help get pro-gun legislators to replace them.

    * Some of the people on this forum will give you a very negative and one-sided view of OFCC because they butted heads with the forum moderators. Somehow I have managed to post a couple thousand messages in the OFCC forums since it was created without any negative repercussions.
    Ok perfect! Thank you so much. Do I write everyone, or just pick 1? I mean should I write individually to Senator Portman, Senator Brown, Representative of the 17th District Ryan, and Governor Kashich? Or should I start with one and see where that gets me? Does anyone have any good resources to get me started writing to these gov. officials? Is there a sample or template I can follow as far as the layout? I will also email Buckeye Firearms and Ohioans for Concealed Carry and see what they say. Thanks again for the posts!

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Even though your LEO's say they aren't going to pursue charges, you DID admit to a 5th degree felony on a public forum.

    Shame on you. Don't do that again.

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    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    Ok perfect! Thank you so much. Do I write everyone, or just pick 1? I mean should I write individually to Senator Portman, Senator Brown, Representative of the 17th District Ryan, and Governor Kashich? Or should I start with one and see where that gets me? Does anyone have any good resources to get me started writing to these gov. officials? Is there a sample or template I can follow as far as the layout? I will also email Buckeye Firearms and Ohioans for Concealed Carry and see what they say. Thanks again for the posts!
    Federal legislators like Brown, Portman and Ryan don't care about and can do nothing about a state law. Focus on finding out who your state legislators are. Find out if they are pro or anti.

    http://www.house.state.oh.us/

    http://www.ohiosenate.gov/

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    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    You can carry in a school safety zone only if you have a CCW. The restrictions are, you cannot be on school property unless you pickup or drop off children using a car, you cannot enter the building and you cannot be at a school functions off property. You can carry on Public sidewalks within a school safety zone as long as the property line of the school doesn't extend through the side walk. If you own property across from the school and you are exempt from the 1000 foot rule.

    I ran into this problem with the Dayton School system. My wife has a CCW and was picking up our child from school on foot; she always carried but stayed on the side walk in the front of the school. The principal noticed the outline of her revolver one day under her shirt and call Dayton PD. Dayton PD arrived at our house within a half hour and they insisted she was in the wronged and threaten to arrest her if she did it again. Later I called the LT. of the officers, after a discussion of the law it was determined that my wife and I were correct. She continued carrying without incidence.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    I checked with the Mahoning County Sheriffs office (not sure who i talked to, it was last year), and they told me as long as it was unloaded completely and locked in my private vehicle that it was fine. I mean if this is not the case i need to know
    This is NOT the case, and there is nothing "iffy" about it.

    Seems to be a lot of bad information floating around about from new groups that are supposedly dedicated to helping Ocers
    Proceed with caution,,,,
    Last edited by Chuck!; 10-26-2012 at 03:54 PM.

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    Deleted by Hareuhal
    Last edited by Hareuhal; 10-26-2012 at 10:11 PM.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    Misinformation is just as, dangerous if not more, to our cause than anti-gunners are.
    Anti's only want to outlaw out guns, misinformation will get you jailed,,,,
    Last edited by Chuck!; 10-26-2012 at 10:49 PM.

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    +1 to Chuck.

    Let's define "misinformation".

    The problem is that what MAY be true in one person's neck of the woods, for THAT specific person and situation, CAN NOT BE PROMULGATED AS "THE LAW".

    This means that YOUR information may be TRUE for YOU, but it will get a different person in trouble.

    If a cop said it's okay for you to do something, please keep that between you and the cop...and the judge.
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    Recoil.

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    Regular Member Chuck!'s Avatar
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    This is why we have preemption in Ohio.
    So the laws are uniform across the board

    I spend a fair amount of time trying to educate LEOs about them,
    We should do the same with gun owners,,,,

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    School zone for teachers question.

    Telling the judge that the cop told me it was ok, even if the cop admits saying so, is NOT a defense!

    What one cop tells you is ok might get you arrested by another cop and found guilty by a judge. Heck, the cop who told you it was ok could arrest you.


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