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Thread: Baton and Knife Carry

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    Baton and Knife Carry

    question, i know its illegal to carry a firearm in a bar or primary alcohol establishment, but what about concealed carry of a collapsible button or knife? are we legally allowed to carry those in bars and alcohol establishments?

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvtopiwala View Post
    question, i know its illegal to carry a firearm in a bar or primary alcohol establishment, but what about concealed carry of a collapsible button or knife? are we legally allowed to carry those in bars and alcohol establishments?
    What kind of knife?

    An ASP is considered a weapon. Same restrictions on where you can carry as a firearm (790.06(12)).

    Knives not considered 'common pocket knives' (folders with less than a 4" blade) are not considered 'weapons' and can be legally carried most places. Local ordinances DO apply, however.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

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    http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-4716...pring+assisted
    ^thats the knife i currently use...so anything under 4" blade is good to go?

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvtopiwala View Post
    http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-4716...pring+assisted
    ^thats the knife i currently use...so anything under 4" blade is good to go?
    Generally, yes. Beware local ordinances, though. Dade county, for example, has a very restrictive knife/weapons ordinance.

    I see you're in Orlando. I'm not aware of any restrictive knife ordinances in that tri-county area, but it would be worth researching.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 10-26-2012 at 09:34 AM.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

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    im actually in Tampa, hillsborough county just havent updated my location, but i will definitely check it out! thanks

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvtopiwala View Post
    im actually in Tampa, hillsborough county just havent updated my location, but i will definitely check it out! thanks
    I don't THINK Hillsborough has any prohibitions, but their ordinances are being revamped, and are not available on Municode at the moment.

    Sorry!
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

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    Though the phrase "common pocket knife" does indeed appear in the statute, there is no clause in the statute that stipulates the maximum length of the blade. It has been offered by at least some legal experts, however, that a "four-inch rule" is an "unwritten" guideline.

    I carry an assisted-open patrol/rescue knife pretty much everywhere. It's rare, since I don't drink at bars nor fly that often, that I go anywhere my pistol can't go. It's even rarer (like less than once in a few years) that I go anywhere my knife can't go.

    I have a collapsible PR-24 left over from my LE days; maybe I'll dig that up and train with it again but, since it's pretty much as restricted as my firearm is, it doesn't make much sense for me to try to make a habit of toting it around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
    Though the phrase "common pocket knife" does indeed appear in the statute, there is no clause in the statute that stipulates the maximum length of the blade. It has been offered by at least some legal experts, however, that a "four-inch rule" is an "unwritten" guideline.

    I carry an assisted-open patrol/rescue knife pretty much everywhere. It's rare, since I don't drink at bars nor fly that often, that I go anywhere my pistol can't go. It's even rarer (like less than once in a few years) that I go anywhere my knife can't go.

    I have a collapsible PR-24 left over from my LE days; maybe I'll dig that up and train with it again but, since it's pretty much as restricted as my firearm is, it doesn't make much sense for me to try to make a habit of toting it around.
    The Florida Supreme Court has ruled on this several times. Here is just one example:

    Bunkley v. State, 882 So. 2d 890 - Fla: Supreme Court 2004
    The legislature's failure to define the term "common pocketknife" in section 790.001(13) does not render that term unconstitutionally vague. (where a statute does not specifically define words of common usage, such words are construed in their plain and ordinary sense). Moreover, a court may refer to a dictionary to ascertain the plain and ordinary meaning which the legislature intended to ascribe to the term.

    To that end, we note that Webster's defines "common" as: "known to the community; occurring or appearing frequently esp. in the ordinary course of events; of, relating to, or typical of the many rather than the few." Webster's defines "pocketknife" as "a knife with a blade folding into the handle to fit it for being carried in the pocket." From these definitions, we can infer that the legislature's intended definition of "common pocketknife" was: "A type of knife occurring frequently in the community which has a blade that folds into the handle and that can be carried in one's pocket." We believe that in the vast majority of cases, it will be evident to citizens and fact-finders whether one's pocketknife is a "common" pocketknife under any intended definition of that term.
    . . .
    As to the knife at issue here, we hold that petitioner's knife plainly falls within the statutory exception to the definition of "weapon" found in section 790.001(13). In 1951, the Attorney General of Florida opined that a pocketknife with a blade of four inches in length or less was a "common pocketknife." Op. Att'y Gen. Fla. 051-358 (1951). The knife appellant carried, which had a 3 3/4-inch blade, clearly fell within this range. Accordingly, appellant's conviction is vacated as we find that the knife in question was a "common pocketknife" under any intended definition of that term.
    . . .

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    Notalawyer contributes:

    the Attorney General of Florida opined that a pocketknife with a blade of four inches in length or less was a "common pocketknife."
    The above statement is not the same as him having stating that a blade with a length greater than four inches is not a "common pocketknife." It only states that a knife with a blade at or below four inches in length is. In the case quoted, the opinion was in reference to a specific defendant's knife, which had a blade of 3.75 inches in length. In the material quoted, there is no indication he even addressed the legality of knives with greater blade-lengths.

    I understand the implication but, as I mentioned, I still have not found an actual written ruling or statute section stating that any knife with a blade of over four inches in length is not a "common pocketknife."

    I'd likely still steer clear of knives with blade-lengths greater in the circumstances to which this thread is relevant. Four inches is long enough to be suitable as a defensive weapon
    Last edited by MedWheeler; 12-06-2012 at 10:36 AM.

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