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Baton and Knife Carry

hvtopiwala

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Tampa, FL
question, i know its illegal to carry a firearm in a bar or primary alcohol establishment, but what about concealed carry of a collapsible button or knife? are we legally allowed to carry those in bars and alcohol establishments?
 

rvrctyrngr

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
363
Location
SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
question, i know its illegal to carry a firearm in a bar or primary alcohol establishment, but what about concealed carry of a collapsible button or knife? are we legally allowed to carry those in bars and alcohol establishments?

What kind of knife?

An ASP is considered a weapon. Same restrictions on where you can carry as a firearm (790.06(12)).

Knives not considered 'common pocket knives' (folders with less than a 4" blade) are not considered 'weapons' and can be legally carried most places. Local ordinances DO apply, however.
 

rvrctyrngr

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Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
363
Location
SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
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hvtopiwala

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
78
Location
Tampa, FL
im actually in Tampa, hillsborough county just havent updated my location, but i will definitely check it out! thanks
 

Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
I am surprised that you cannot just google "knife laws" and your state, county and city.

These are each different everywhere.
 

MedWheeler

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
33
Location
Florida
Though the phrase "common pocket knife" does indeed appear in the statute, there is no clause in the statute that stipulates the maximum length of the blade. It has been offered by at least some legal experts, however, that a "four-inch rule" is an "unwritten" guideline.

I carry an assisted-open patrol/rescue knife pretty much everywhere. It's rare, since I don't drink at bars nor fly that often, that I go anywhere my pistol can't go. It's even rarer (like less than once in a few years) that I go anywhere my knife can't go.

I have a collapsible PR-24 left over from my LE days; maybe I'll dig that up and train with it again but, since it's pretty much as restricted as my firearm is, it doesn't make much sense for me to try to make a habit of toting it around.
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
Though the phrase "common pocket knife" does indeed appear in the statute, there is no clause in the statute that stipulates the maximum length of the blade. It has been offered by at least some legal experts, however, that a "four-inch rule" is an "unwritten" guideline.

I carry an assisted-open patrol/rescue knife pretty much everywhere. It's rare, since I don't drink at bars nor fly that often, that I go anywhere my pistol can't go. It's even rarer (like less than once in a few years) that I go anywhere my knife can't go.

I have a collapsible PR-24 left over from my LE days; maybe I'll dig that up and train with it again but, since it's pretty much as restricted as my firearm is, it doesn't make much sense for me to try to make a habit of toting it around.

The Florida Supreme Court has ruled on this several times. Here is just one example:

Bunkley v. State, 882 So. 2d 890 - Fla: Supreme Court 2004
The legislature's failure to define the term "common pocketknife" in section 790.001(13) does not render that term unconstitutionally vague. (where a statute does not specifically define words of common usage, such words are construed in their plain and ordinary sense). Moreover, a court may refer to a dictionary to ascertain the plain and ordinary meaning which the legislature intended to ascribe to the term.

To that end, we note that Webster's defines "common" as: "known to the community; occurring or appearing frequently esp. in the ordinary course of events; of, relating to, or typical of the many rather than the few." Webster's defines "pocketknife" as "a knife with a blade folding into the handle to fit it for being carried in the pocket." From these definitions, we can infer that the legislature's intended definition of "common pocketknife" was: "A type of knife occurring frequently in the community which has a blade that folds into the handle and that can be carried in one's pocket." We believe that in the vast majority of cases, it will be evident to citizens and fact-finders whether one's pocketknife is a "common" pocketknife under any intended definition of that term.
. . .
As to the knife at issue here, we hold that petitioner's knife plainly falls within the statutory exception to the definition of "weapon" found in section 790.001(13). In 1951, the Attorney General of Florida opined that a pocketknife with a blade of four inches in length or less was a "common pocketknife." Op. Att'y Gen. Fla. 051-358 (1951). The knife appellant carried, which had a 3 3/4-inch blade, clearly fell within this range. Accordingly, appellant's conviction is vacated as we find that the knife in question was a "common pocketknife" under any intended definition of that term.
. . .
 

MedWheeler

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
33
Location
Florida
Notalawyer contributes:

the Attorney General of Florida opined that a pocketknife with a blade of four inches in length or less was a "common pocketknife."

The above statement is not the same as him having stating that a blade with a length greater than four inches is not a "common pocketknife." It only states that a knife with a blade at or below four inches in length is. In the case quoted, the opinion was in reference to a specific defendant's knife, which had a blade of 3.75 inches in length. In the material quoted, there is no indication he even addressed the legality of knives with greater blade-lengths.

I understand the implication but, as I mentioned, I still have not found an actual written ruling or statute section stating that any knife with a blade of over four inches in length is not a "common pocketknife."

I'd likely still steer clear of knives with blade-lengths greater in the circumstances to which this thread is relevant. Four inches is long enough to be suitable as a defensive weapon
 
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