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Thread: OT: Unmanned Aerial Drones for SPD - Public meeting

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    OT: Unmanned Aerial Drones for SPD - Public meeting

    FYI: http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-seat...,4141403.story

    About 50 organizations in the country have permission from the federal government to start using unmanned aerial vehicles, or "drones," and the Seattle Police Department is one of them.

    Seattle police are drafting a policy on how they will use drones. Seattle Police Arson/Bomb Squad Lieutenant Greg Sackman will hold a question and answer session for the public Thursday night. The public will be able to see Seattle police's drone at the session.

    The event will be held at 6 p.m. at the Garfield Community Center at 2323 East Cherry Street in Seattle.
    No matter what policy and procedures are created for use of these unmanned drones, its probable law abiding citizens will fall victim to their use.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Pull!!!!!!

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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Ive seen these at last years seattle police picnic at the harbor patrol. They are just small helicopters like you buy at the toy store, that hold a camera or video camera. They are made out of carbon fiber. If they are the same. They are made for the swat team and special ops dept. of SPD.

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    So if the purpose is to watch law biding citizens who might commit a crime, then we should get some to watch law enforcemtn who might commit a crime. I don't care that they have them, it is the actual use of them that is my concern. Who makes that decision? A judge? A Police Commander? What would be the situation that would allow the use of it? Search and Rescue? 420 in progress at 5th and Yessler? So many questions and so little answers from the government.
    WA Guns
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    Re: OT: Unmanned Aerial Drones for SPD - Public meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Pull!!!!!!
    Lol

    Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Just think once the goverment and PD get the average joe citizen to feel comfortable with the drones they can start arming them and take out anyone that disagree with the goverment.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Pull!!!!!!
    Hey, no endorsing illegal activities.

    We have to apply soft pressure and hope the government will respect our rights.


    Personally I agree with you 100% about the implication of your actions though.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    I think these are a bad idea.

    This area is windy, rainy and has all kinds of mixed terrain with tall trees everywhere. Although for use in the city trees aren't the problem, tons of privacy issues with people crammed together are.

    Who will be responsible for when these things crash and hurt people/property? Also, who will "fly" these things? I have a suspicion that the qualifications will be marginally more stringent than a background in video games.

    And lastly there's the privacy issue. Why do the police need roving surveillance? And given the track record of the SPD why would anyone believe that they would use these properly when they have already "lost" thousands of dash-cam videos? After all the SPD went through with the feds recently why on earth would the feds give them permission for this?

    And I agree with the slippery slope thing on armed drones. Check out this video, it's fairly chilling in its implications:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

    I'm not 100% sure that video isn't fake, but it looks like it is pretty real.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Time to start looking into making DIY HERF...

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

    I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

    You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

    I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

    * A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 10-25-2012 at 05:15 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    I wonder how many new pictures will be sold to tabloid reporters or otherwise find their way onto the Internet?

    Michael

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

    I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

    You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

    I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

    * A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
    To be fair I don't think you can compare these to choppers or planes, both of which do not fly below a certain ceiling. I have a feeling these drones will often be low-flying and cause injury to property/people, not to mention wasting tons of $ when they crash. We aren't Wichita, we are Seattle, the terrain here is awful. It reminds me of the debacle of trying to use Apaches in forested eastern Europe and western Asia.

    I also tend to believe people will be more careful with vehicles they're flying if they themselves are IN those vehicles and are forced to be careful for their own safety, and the professional credentials will be higher for the person operating the vehicle as well.

    Could this be a cost savings tool? Maybe, but I am sensing probably not. After all the liability issues I am sure that civil rights attorneys will create a brand new field of defense arguments that will get evidence gathered with these things tossed out of court, and probably counter-sue the city for millions.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

    I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

    You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

    I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

    * A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
    I guess we can take the goverments word that they won't fly more than approved, or that they won't put anything on them, or they won't record anyone......

    Dam almost typed that with a straight face. Just kidding they shouldn't be using them at all.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I guess we can take the goverments word that they won't fly more than approved, or that they won't put anything on them, or they won't record anyone......

    Dam almost typed that with a straight face. Just kidding they shouldn't be using them at all.
    I guess we can just take your word that you're not going to shoot people up while you're OCing too, If we make my idea a law and make it subject to the exclusionary rule then any evidence gathered would be suppressed
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I just googled for a few minutes and found this...

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/seattle-...d-cameras.html

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    they need FAA clearance to fly that?!

    It looks like a toy chopper you can buy at Toys R Us

    battery powered too, there is no way this thing has more then 40 minutes flight endurance. they won't be practical to do random patrols, they can fly 30 mph and I doubt their battery life is that long.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    As technology gets better drones are becoming cheaper and their flight time is increasing all the time. Flight time will be in days not minutes or hours. With increased flight time drones can be used for general surveillance instead of just limiting them to individual as needed cases.

    Michael

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Get the tin hats out, oh my god the sky is falling!!! Were on the verge of total collapse and annihilation.

    Unmanned hmmm I guess this can be said about an R.C. Car, Boat, Plane, Helicopter though the use of unmanned tends one to think of the drones being used as weapons by the military and there is no indication of such type of weaponized versions.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...se_drones.html
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Get the tin hats out, oh my god the sky is falling!!! Were on the verge of total collapse and annihilation.

    Unmanned hmmm I guess this can be said about an R.C. Car, Boat, Plane, Helicopter though the use of unmanned tends one to think of the drones being used as weapons by the military and there is no indication of such type of weaponized versions.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...se_drones.html
    Actually aluminum is better, Aluminum cuts down on the government mind control frequencies and can also prevent abduction by paraterrestrials.
    You should also put aluminum on your pets, becuase the government can use mind control to take control of your pets and spy on you

    http://zapatopi.net/afdb/usage.html
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 10-25-2012 at 06:46 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Fine, if they crash it in my yard I am going to keep it.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Waste of $$

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...se_drones.html
    It is operated with a handheld controller and joysticks. It carries cameras that can take still pictures, videos and infrared shots. It is limited by a battery life of less than 10 minutes and an inability to carry more than 35 ounces a little more than 2 pounds, police said.
    www.WaGuns.org

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    Seems the associated press is only partially reporting as the battery power is available up to 30 minutes but still seems to short for an effective use.

    From the article on oregonlive.com

    Seattle police plan to use the mini-helicopter Draganflyer X6 made by the Draganfly Innovations company of Saskatoon, Canada,
    http://www.draganfly.com/uav-helicop...wer-system.php
    The Draganflyer X6 helicopter battery stores enough power for flights approximately 20 minutes long with out payload in optimum conditions. Using lithium polymer cell technology, the Draganflyer X6 battery is significantly lighter and higher capacity than an equivalently shaped conventional rechargeable battery. With its integrated power and balancer connectors, recharging is simple and takes only 30 minutes. A spare battery installs easily so you can continue flying while the used one charges.
    Does not seem to be the same model pictured??
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member mlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Get the tin hats out, oh my god the sky is falling!!! Were on the verge of total collapse and annihilation.

    Unmanned hmmm I guess this can be said about an R.C. Car, Boat, Plane, Helicopter though the use of unmanned tends one to think of the drones being used as weapons by the military and there is no indication of such type of weaponized versions.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...se_drones.html
    There is a bit of the tin foil hat thing that pops up when these types of proposals are brought up. The other extreme are those that will say the Government is doing this for a reason. That they are here solely to help make life better for me.

    Both extremes are wrong, hopefully. The thing is if we sit back and do nothing and nothing bad happens we will all have a good laugh at the expense of the tin foil hat folks. But if we sit idly by and these toys are abused who will we laugh at then?
    It is the job of the American citizen to watch over his Government at all times to ensure that it is constantly held in check. People need to realize that you cannot and must not depend on the Courts to keep the Government in check. The Courts are the government!
    We the people must be the ones who watch over them. It is our rights in the balance.

    Michael

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    Last edited by gogodawgs; 10-25-2012 at 08:24 PM.
    Live Free or Die!

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    All you folks who think the drones are nothing will be changing your mind when police swat teams are knocking down your doors because the drones photographed what a cop thinks is a single pot plant in your backyard.

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