• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

OT: Unmanned Aerial Drones for SPD - Public meeting

slapmonkay

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
FYI: http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-seattle-police-to-exhibit-new-aerial-drones-20121025,0,4141403.story

About 50 organizations in the country have permission from the federal government to start using unmanned aerial vehicles, or "drones," and the Seattle Police Department is one of them.

Seattle police are drafting a policy on how they will use drones. Seattle Police Arson/Bomb Squad Lieutenant Greg Sackman will hold a question and answer session for the public Thursday night. The public will be able to see Seattle police's drone at the session.

The event will be held at 6 p.m. at the Garfield Community Center at 2323 East Cherry Street in Seattle.
Click to expand...

No matter what policy and procedures are created for use of these unmanned drones, its probable law abiding citizens will fall victim to their use.
 
jsanchez

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
Ive seen these at last years seattle police picnic at the harbor patrol. They are just small helicopters like you buy at the toy store, that hold a camera or video camera. They are made out of carbon fiber. If they are the same. They are made for the swat team and special ops dept. of SPD.
 
badkarma

badkarma

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
333
Location
Duvall, Washington
So if the purpose is to watch law biding citizens who might commit a crime, then we should get some to watch law enforcemtn who might commit a crime. I don't care that they have them, it is the actual use of them that is my concern. Who makes that decision? A judge? A Police Commander? What would be the situation that would allow the use of it? Search and Rescue? 420 in progress at 5th and Yessler? So many questions and so little answers from the government.
 
DocWalker

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Just think once the goverment and PD get the average joe citizen to feel comfortable with the drones they can start arming them and take out anyone that disagree with the goverment.
 
Alpine

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
I think these are a bad idea.

This area is windy, rainy and has all kinds of mixed terrain with tall trees everywhere. Although for use in the city trees aren't the problem, tons of privacy issues with people crammed together are.

Who will be responsible for when these things crash and hurt people/property? Also, who will "fly" these things? I have a suspicion that the qualifications will be marginally more stringent than a background in video games.

And lastly there's the privacy issue. Why do the police need roving surveillance? And given the track record of the SPD why would anyone believe that they would use these properly when they have already "lost" thousands of dash-cam videos? After all the SPD went through with the feds recently why on earth would the feds give them permission for this?

And I agree with the slippery slope thing on armed drones. Check out this video, it's fairly chilling in its implications:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU

I'm not 100% sure that video isn't fake, but it looks like it is pretty real.
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

* A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
 
Last edited:
mlr

mlr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
50
Location
, ,
I wonder how many new pictures will be sold to tabloid reporters or otherwise find their way onto the Internet?

Michael
 
Alpine

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
EMNofSeattle said:
Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

* A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
Click to expand...

To be fair I don't think you can compare these to choppers or planes, both of which do not fly below a certain ceiling. I have a feeling these drones will often be low-flying and cause injury to property/people, not to mention wasting tons of $ when they crash. We aren't Wichita, we are Seattle, the terrain here is awful. It reminds me of the debacle of trying to use Apaches in forested eastern Europe and western Asia.

I also tend to believe people will be more careful with vehicles they're flying if they themselves are IN those vehicles and are forced to be careful for their own safety, and the professional credentials will be higher for the person operating the vehicle as well.

Could this be a cost savings tool? Maybe, but I am sensing probably not. After all the liability issues I am sure that civil rights attorneys will create a brand new field of defense arguments that will get evidence gathered with these things tossed out of court, and probably counter-sue the city for millions.
 
DocWalker

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
EMNofSeattle said:
Well Police have been flying Helicopters and fixed wing aircraft for some time now, the State Patrol owns 5 cessnas and King County sheriff has three helicopters.

I'm willing to compromise with the police department.

You can fly drones, but only one drone per 100,000 people with a cap of 4 (which means seattle could have a maximum of 4) Drones could not be equipped with any device allowing them to see inside a house or structure, and if you're department is running helicopters or fixed wing air craft that counts against your drone total. (for instance, if have a city of 600,000 people and operate one helicopter that's only 3 drones.

I think such a policy would be reasonable and beneficial for all involved. IMHO

* A Corollary, you can fly drones over the maximum if used for a specific police operation such as a search warrant signed by a judge the drone may only be used for that op and must head straight back with cameras used only to fly and not observe, or if you're in an active chase, but a limit of 4 for general patrol at all times and must use "a birds eye view" only, no FLIR or electro magnetic type sensors to look in buildings.
Click to expand...

I guess we can take the goverments word that they won't fly more than approved, or that they won't put anything on them, or they won't record anyone......

Dam almost typed that with a straight face. Just kidding they shouldn't be using them at all.
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
DocWalker said:
I guess we can take the goverments word that they won't fly more than approved, or that they won't put anything on them, or they won't record anyone......

Dam almost typed that with a straight face. Just kidding they shouldn't be using them at all.
Click to expand...

I guess we can just take your word that you're not going to shoot people up while you're OCing too, If we make my idea a law and make it subject to the exclusionary rule then any evidence gathered would be suppressed
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
they need FAA clearance to fly that?!

It looks like a toy chopper you can buy at Toys R Us

battery powered too, there is no way this thing has more then 40 minutes flight endurance. they won't be practical to do random patrols, they can fly 30 mph and I doubt their battery life is that long.
 
mlr

mlr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
50
Location
, ,
As technology gets better drones are becoming cheaper and their flight time is increasing all the time. Flight time will be in days not minutes or hours. With increased flight time drones can be used for general surveillance instead of just limiting them to individual as needed cases.

Michael
 
BigDave

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Get the tin hats out, oh my god the sky is falling!!! Were on the verge of total collapse and annihilation.

Unmanned hmmm I guess this can be said about an R.C. Car, Boat, Plane, Helicopter though the use of unmanned tends one to think of the drones being used as weapons by the military and there is no indication of such type of weaponized versions.

11756942-large.jpg

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2012/10/seattle_police_will_use_drones.html
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
BigDave said:
Get the tin hats out, oh my god the sky is falling!!! Were on the verge of total collapse and annihilation.

Unmanned hmmm I guess this can be said about an R.C. Car, Boat, Plane, Helicopter though the use of unmanned tends one to think of the drones being used as weapons by the military and there is no indication of such type of weaponized versions.

View attachment 9442

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2012/10/seattle_police_will_use_drones.html
Click to expand...

Actually aluminum is better, Aluminum cuts down on the government mind control frequencies and can also prevent abduction by paraterrestrials.
You should also put aluminum on your pets, becuase the government can use mind control to take control of your pets and spy on you

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/usage.html
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top