ethorman
Regular Member
Ok so here are my thoughts regarding encountering OK LEOs while OCing. I will give a few situations and what I have come up with my own opinion on how to handle them and what if any issues may arise. I will always comply with the officer, however I may not consent but I will not resist either. That being said here we go:
Situation 1: OCing while shopping at a Store. (Store allows open carry)
While open carrying inside a store a police officer notices my weapon and starts to head over in my direction. Seeing this, I stop what I am doing and wait for him to arrive. Upon his arrival he introduces himself and I do the same and he asks if I have a permit for the weapon in which I state yes. He then asks if he can see that along with my OK drivers license and I agree to that as well. He then does a visual inspection of both my DL and my WP (Weapons Permit). He then proceeds to call me in and check and see if there are any warrants standing for my arrest of if I am a felon. Upon hearing that I am good to go he returns my DL and WP and I am free to go.
Observations: IMO this is a classic 4th Ammendment violation, even though the LEO did everything legally under state law, and have every authority to do so. Reason for the violation the police officer singled me out only because I was carrying and demanded DL and WP (which is legal via state law). I was detained, even thought it doesnt mean you have to be arrested or put in a car, he had my DL and WP so I was not free to go there for a detainment.
Say for arguments sake that I had a warrant out for my arrest, and upon running me he found out and I was arrested, disarmed and sent to jail, this is very similar to Delaware vs. Prouse, in which a LEO had pulled over a car to check the driver for his DL when he found marajuana in the vehicle and the driver was then arrested. The officer had no RAS to pull over the driver other than to just check his DL and because of that found the illegal substance.
Situation 2. Being called in on a MWAG 911 call
While walking my dog I see a officer in his vehicle approach me (lights on or off). I stop and wait for him to come to my location or for him to tell me to come to him. He then asks if I have a permit for my weapon, and I respond yes. He then asks to see my DL and WP in which I comply and give them to him. He looks at them, and decides to run me thru the system. I come back with no warrants or that I am a felon so he gives me back my WP and DL and I am free to leave.
Observations: IMO this is not a 4th Ammendment violation. The officer was responding to a call therefore he has not singled me out and has every legal right to identify me and make sure that I am legally carrying in accordance with SDA. I was detained again, because he had my DL and WP so I was not free to go.
Some can argue that there is RAS that a crime is, may or has been commited, the crime being carrying a weapon without a permit. Therefore the officers have RAS to stop and check eveyone for their WP and DL. Remember that the officer does not have to tell you if RAS exists or not, or why or how he was there so how do you know if he singled you out or if he is responding to a call, unless they tell you?
**Both of the above situations if you are disarmed for any reason that is a violation of state law, unless you of course have a warrant, commited another crime, or are a felon.**
Situation 3. Pulled over for speeding while OCing
Driving down the road speeding and get pulled over. Of course pull out my DL, WP, and Insurance and when the officer approaches and asks for them give them those as well as tell him that I have a weapon in the car. The officer then disarms me, takes my DL, WP, pistol (Officer safety right), and returns my insurance upon verifying that it has not expired and goes back to his car and runs me to ensure I have no warrants or am a felon. He then returns, gives me back my DL, WP, pistol and has me sign my ticket (press hard lol) and I am free to go.
Observations: IMO this is a violation of state law, the original crime that was commited was speeding there was no other crime that was commited after the one that let the officer pull you over. However one could argue that when the officer approches the vehicle and sees that you are not wearing your seatbelt that could be the "other crime" and therefore he could disarm you. Its a techaniclaity however it would be consided legal IMO. Say that your wearing your seatbelt and after pulling you over the LEO has RAS that you have been drinking, he then can disarm you due to the fact of a DUI/DWI.
This is all my own opinon and I hope that I am understanding our laws and statue correct. Feel free to comment and let me know what your opinions are, remember this is OK, I really do not care about other states laws and how they would relate if I was there. Also remember IANAL. Thanks.
PS: Not a english major, and there may be mispellings...
Situation 1: OCing while shopping at a Store. (Store allows open carry)
While open carrying inside a store a police officer notices my weapon and starts to head over in my direction. Seeing this, I stop what I am doing and wait for him to arrive. Upon his arrival he introduces himself and I do the same and he asks if I have a permit for the weapon in which I state yes. He then asks if he can see that along with my OK drivers license and I agree to that as well. He then does a visual inspection of both my DL and my WP (Weapons Permit). He then proceeds to call me in and check and see if there are any warrants standing for my arrest of if I am a felon. Upon hearing that I am good to go he returns my DL and WP and I am free to go.
Observations: IMO this is a classic 4th Ammendment violation, even though the LEO did everything legally under state law, and have every authority to do so. Reason for the violation the police officer singled me out only because I was carrying and demanded DL and WP (which is legal via state law). I was detained, even thought it doesnt mean you have to be arrested or put in a car, he had my DL and WP so I was not free to go there for a detainment.
Say for arguments sake that I had a warrant out for my arrest, and upon running me he found out and I was arrested, disarmed and sent to jail, this is very similar to Delaware vs. Prouse, in which a LEO had pulled over a car to check the driver for his DL when he found marajuana in the vehicle and the driver was then arrested. The officer had no RAS to pull over the driver other than to just check his DL and because of that found the illegal substance.
Situation 2. Being called in on a MWAG 911 call
While walking my dog I see a officer in his vehicle approach me (lights on or off). I stop and wait for him to come to my location or for him to tell me to come to him. He then asks if I have a permit for my weapon, and I respond yes. He then asks to see my DL and WP in which I comply and give them to him. He looks at them, and decides to run me thru the system. I come back with no warrants or that I am a felon so he gives me back my WP and DL and I am free to leave.
Observations: IMO this is not a 4th Ammendment violation. The officer was responding to a call therefore he has not singled me out and has every legal right to identify me and make sure that I am legally carrying in accordance with SDA. I was detained again, because he had my DL and WP so I was not free to go.
Some can argue that there is RAS that a crime is, may or has been commited, the crime being carrying a weapon without a permit. Therefore the officers have RAS to stop and check eveyone for their WP and DL. Remember that the officer does not have to tell you if RAS exists or not, or why or how he was there so how do you know if he singled you out or if he is responding to a call, unless they tell you?
**Both of the above situations if you are disarmed for any reason that is a violation of state law, unless you of course have a warrant, commited another crime, or are a felon.**
Situation 3. Pulled over for speeding while OCing
Driving down the road speeding and get pulled over. Of course pull out my DL, WP, and Insurance and when the officer approaches and asks for them give them those as well as tell him that I have a weapon in the car. The officer then disarms me, takes my DL, WP, pistol (Officer safety right), and returns my insurance upon verifying that it has not expired and goes back to his car and runs me to ensure I have no warrants or am a felon. He then returns, gives me back my DL, WP, pistol and has me sign my ticket (press hard lol) and I am free to go.
Observations: IMO this is a violation of state law, the original crime that was commited was speeding there was no other crime that was commited after the one that let the officer pull you over. However one could argue that when the officer approches the vehicle and sees that you are not wearing your seatbelt that could be the "other crime" and therefore he could disarm you. Its a techaniclaity however it would be consided legal IMO. Say that your wearing your seatbelt and after pulling you over the LEO has RAS that you have been drinking, he then can disarm you due to the fact of a DUI/DWI.
This is all my own opinon and I hope that I am understanding our laws and statue correct. Feel free to comment and let me know what your opinions are, remember this is OK, I really do not care about other states laws and how they would relate if I was there. Also remember IANAL. Thanks.
PS: Not a english major, and there may be mispellings...