I am in a bit of a bind...

Lovenox · Oct 28, 2012

MKEgal said:
Seems there are 2 issues:
1) what does your conscience say about exercising various rights?
2) what would gov't agents say about exercising various rights?

To me, you're free & clear on #1.
IANAL, but from what you've said it looks to me like you already are a citizen.
The .gov just hasn't filed the right paperwork to convince itself.

For #2, I would think that it only becomes an issue if there's a problem, if someone does more of an investigation than there has already been (in order to get you that clearance, or the voter registration, or the guns, etc.). I'm curious to know what investigation the hospital did that the gov't so far has not?

You've filed the form so that the gov't admits to itself that your father was a citizen, so you are too.
It'll make them happy & there's less chance of something odd happening down the road.

***

And hey, 40S&W, I see you're new here. Welcome aboard.
When you want to reply to a thread you can use the button in the upper or lower left of the whole thing; that gives you a clean window to write in.
When you reply to a post, please trim to just the parts you're replying to, so it's shorter & easier to read.

As for your #1: Do I have those rights? As for your #2 My former employer didn't do an "investigation" so far they simply ran my SSN for E-Verify. Now the laws are very convoluted as they change according to where and when you were born. Believe me the wife and I have studied it extensively and it just doesn't make sense at times. I was already turned down for the N600 but the lady did ask if my grandfather worked for the US government or the Panama Canal Zone at the time.She didn't give me time to respond. So I am filling an appeal.

Lovenox · Oct 28, 2012

Jayd1981 said:
I am really surprised you held a secret clearance but now they are saying you are not a US citizen. It was my understanding that citizenship is a requirement for a security clearance within the US. At my job we had a high level manager that was not a US citizen so he had to have an escort just to come into the area I worked in even though he was our second level manager because he could not have the clearance since he was Canadian.

EXACTLY!!! Here is the kicker: Right around the same time I got hired at the civilian facility I got called on a job at Waller Hall, I was a shoe in as I knew some of the folks that worked there and I came with awesome recommendations and they knew my work ethic through my MOB at I CORPS HQ. So, they said great you are hired, but you have to "prove" you are a US Citizen, to which I said I can't but can you take my Secret Clearance in the meantime while I get this stuff sorted out. Nope they couldn't do that. So I lost the job. To thier credit they did give me a couple of months. Now here is the kicker, I can get MOB'd to the exact same place as a Soldier and nothing would be said, but since I am a "civilian" it's a different standard. As a side note: they said bring in a passport. Well, I never had a need for a passport since I travelled on my fathers orders or my own ID. I just lost another awesome job as a contractor overseas making six figures. Screwed up, huh?

Lovenox · Oct 28, 2012

Jayd1981 said:
You could try writing your state level senator and congressman. Not sure how much help they would be, but I don't see it hurting.

I will try Senator McCains office since he went through a very similar perdicament. I will keep you all posted.

DamonK · Oct 29, 2012

Good luck man. To quote one of my favorite shows, "We're pullin fer ya"

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

EMNofSeattle · Oct 29, 2012

sudden valley gunner said:
McCain was almost president too and was born in the same country as Lovenox.

No McCain was born in the CANAL ZONE which was still a US overseas possession when McCain was born, read what the OP said, the OP was born in Panama City, which belonged to the country of panama.

For the record I don't believe Obama born in Kenya either. and even if he was, it's irrelevant because his mother was a US citizen.

EMNofSeattle · Oct 29, 2012

JoeSparky said:
I am NOT that familiar with Washington State law but does it not allow for legal resident alien's to possess/carry arms?

A legal resident can but they need a legal resident certificate to possess a firearm unless they're a citizen of canada then they can carry a firearm here as long as they're legally in the country (RCW 9.41.175) or if they're firearm is lawfully imported and they're here to hunt or engage in competition then a resident of any other country may carry with no permit.

neither of the exceptions in 175 apply and if the OP applies for an alien resident license under 9.41.173 that may be an admission that the op knew he was not a citizen or believed he wasn't.

And he'd have to state he was a citizen of another country (panama)

Take a look at this too
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Panama/constitucion2004.pdf

this is the panamanian constitution, look at title 13

Now I can't read spanish that well so I plugged it into google translate, and I'm sure the context is skewed so I'll have a natural born spanish speaker I know take a look at this, but it appears due to the OPs claiming of US nationality and then serving in the Army, he may have lost his panamanian citizenship, and the US government is now claiming he's not a citizen, he may be a "stateless person", regardless of what some of the sovereign citizen types will tell you, this is bad.

uh-oh....

Lovenox · Oct 29, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
No McCain was born in the CANAL ZONE which was still a US overseas possession when McCain was born, read what the OP said, the OP was born in Panama City, which belonged to the country of panama.

For the record I don't believe Obama born in Kenya either. and even if he was, it's irrelevant because his mother was a US citizen.

Correct. However, and this is a BIG however, according to the immigration folks it is not good enough that ONE parent is a US Citizen at the time of birth. The laws change from generation to generation and there are some hurdles I must meet to be granted the N600. One would think it would be that easy," Hey one of his parents is a US Citizen so he has got to be a US Citizen...." Nope!!! When I get a chance I will post the rejection letter I got cited all the reasons why I was turned down and you will say like I said what the hell does that matter?????

Lovenox · Oct 29, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
A legal resident can but they need a legal resident certificate to possess a firearm unless they're a citizen of canada then they can carry a firearm here as long as they're legally in the country (RCW 9.41.175) or if they're firearm is lawfully imported and they're here to hunt or engage in competition then a resident of any other country may carry with no permit.

neither of the exceptions in 175 apply and if the OP applies for an alien resident license under 9.41.173 that may be an admission that the op knew he was not a citizen or believed he wasn't.

And he'd have to state he was a citizen of another country (panama)

Take a look at this too
http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Panama/constitucion2004.pdf

this is the panamanian constitution, look at title 13

Now I can't read spanish that well so I plugged it into google translate, and I'm sure the context is skewed so I'll have a natural born spanish speaker I know take a look at this, but it appears due to the OPs claiming of US nationality and then serving in the Army, he may have lost his panamanian citizenship, and the US government is now claiming he's not a citizen, he may be a "stateless person", regardless of what some of the sovereign citizen types will tell you, this is bad.

uh-oh....

Well that puts a new twist into it doesn't it now???? Damm. Here we go!

badkarma · Oct 29, 2012

I went through this same situation with my wife. It sounds difficult and scary, but it wasn't that hard to get it all fixed. It did cost though. I will send you the Lawyer who handled our case via PM.

rapgood · Oct 29, 2012

In any event, if he was honorably discharged from the army and has committed no felonies, he is entitled to U.S. citizenship as a matter of right.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 29, 2012

rapgood said:
In any event, if he was honorably discharged from the army and has committed no felonies, he is entitled to U.S. citizenship as a matter of right.

I agree, you are a citizen Lovenox!

Or are you talking about McCain, he can go away....

Cremator75 · Oct 29, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
For the record I don't believe Obama born in Kenya either. and even if he was, it's irrelevant because his mother was a US citizen.

His mother alone does not meet minimum qualifications. Both parents must be at minimum "naturalized citizens" for the child to be a "natural born" citizen which required to be president. No matter where he was born he does not meet those standards since his father has never been a US citizen of any type.

EMNofSeattle · Oct 29, 2012

Cremator75 said:
His mother alone does not meet minimum qualifications. Both parents must be at minimum "naturalized citizens" for the child to be a "natural born" citizen which required to be president. No matter where he was born he does not meet those standards since his father has never been a US citizen of any type.

Really? cite please

In fact there is little to no cites available on this subject but here's a court case in which the citizenship angle was Lynch v Clark in which the New York State Court system determined

Upon principle, therefore, I can entertain no doubt, but that by the law of the United States, every person born within the dominions and allegiance of the United States, whatever the situation of his parents, is a natural born citizen. It is surprising that there has been no judicial decision upon this question

The Congressional research service found after extensive study

Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase "natural-born subject" in England and in the Colonies in the 1700s, the clause's apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in enacting the Naturalization Act of 1790 (expressly defining the term "natural born citizen" to include a person born abroad to parents who are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that the phrase "natural born Citizen" would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship "at birth" or "by birth".[44]

And finally the law applying to Obama

The person's parents were married at the time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

BUT Obama from all known evidence was born in Honolulu, he has a birth certificate, it's been released, the Hawaii department of health has certified its authenticity. So unless you can somehow prove that all of that has been faked, then stop drinking the kool-aid put out by these wackos about phony birth certificates.

gogodawgs · Oct 29, 2012

EMNofSeattle said:
<snip>
BUT Obama from all known evidence was born in Honolulu, he has a birth certificate, it's been released, the Hawaii department of health has certified its authenticity. So unless you can somehow prove that all of that has been faked, then stop drinking the kool-aid put out by these wackos about phony birth certificates.

You mean the one put up on the official White House website? http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

That has been ripped apart by adobe illustrator experts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9StxsFllY

To tel you the truth I was in the camp of it was legit until this was released, now it draws considerably more questions then answers.

EMNofSeattle · Oct 30, 2012

gogodawgs said:
You mean the one put up on the official White House website? http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

That has been ripped apart by adobe illustrator experts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9StxsFllY

To tel you the truth I was in the camp of it was legit until this was released, now it draws considerably more questions then answers.

So the adobe guy thinks its a fake, did Obama fake the repeated statements of HDoH employees stating that such a record exists and they have personally verified it? It could be as simple as Obama or a staffer going on the quick side and building a copy on illustrator of the record already existing, and then claiming hey scanned it hoping no one would look. I dont believe Obama was born anywhere other then Honolulu.

Lovenox · Oct 30, 2012

rapgood said:
In any event, if he was honorably discharged from the army and has committed no felonies, he is entitled to U.S. citizenship as a matter of right.

Correct, but I don't wanna go the N400 (Full Naturalization) Route because then I would be admitting that I knew I was not a US Citizen and could lose my Secret Clearance , etc The N600 is more of an administrative mode because my father didn't file the Born Abroad Certficate.

Lovenox · Oct 30, 2012

Cremator75 said:
His mother alone does not meet minimum qualifications. Both parents must be at minimum "naturalized citizens" for the child to be a "natural born" citizen which required to be president. No matter where he was born he does not meet those standards since his father has never been a US citizen of any type.

Not entirely true,at least in my case. If my mother had naturalized PRIOR to my 18th birthday then it wouldn't be a great deal. My father is a US Citizen by virtue of his father being a US Citizen (born in Philadelphia) . When my dad was born his father registered him (and the rest of the kids) at the US Embassy, effectively a Born Aboard Certificate. As a matter of fact, several years after he died someone informed them that they were entitled to some SS benefits that they didn't know about...I cannot stress enough that the laws are different and different for different countries at different times..especially for Panama. It is insane.

I am in a bit of a bind...

Lovenox

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