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I am in a bit of a bind...

Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Bear with me as this requires some back ground history. *takes deep breath* Here goes: In April of this year I got a new job working as a nurse at a local rehab. Two days later my new employer comes back and says, "Hey did you know you aren't a US Citizen?" I thought that perhaps they got my SSN wrong since I put a line through my zero like I do in the Army. They read me back my number and I confirmed that that was it. So the next day I head out to the local SSN office to see what this was all about. They confirmed that I wasn't a US Citizen and this started an avalanche of activities on my part. Second stop, Homeland Security in Tukwila. I spoke with an immigration officer and he confirmed that I qualify for a "Derivative Citizenship." You see, my father left Panama ten days before I was born. He, my father was a US Citizen by virtue of his dad (my grandfather) being a US Citizen. BY two sisters don't have this issue because they were born in the Canal Zone and much like being born in any other US territory citizenship for them is automatic. I was born in Panama City proper. My father did not do a born aboard certificate. A lot of GIs have children overseas and file a Born Aboard Certificate and the kids become US Citizens almost instant. I don't wanna apply for an N400 Naturalization because then I would be admitting that I thought I was never a citizen and got my wepaons through fraud not to mention my concealed pistol permit and voters registration card. I have applied for the N600 which is the derived citizenship. I was already denied once only because the lady asked if my grandfather worked for the US Government or the Panama Canal at the time. I called my uncle and he said yes that he did and even provided the a copy of the official form. Now for the benefit of you the reader I will skip the midsection of the story to get to the heart of my predicament.

1) All the weapons I have ever bought I always checked US Citizen on the form because I thought of myself as nothing less. I was never held up or delayed and my weapons were purchased without incident.
2) I checked US Citizen on my concealed weapons permit because again I have always thought of myself as nothing less
3) I have a Secret Clearance in the Army. You cannot per regulation receive a clearance without being a US Citizen
4) I have a voters registration card and have voted in several elections.

Now here is my bind...can I legally carry my weapon? Can I legally conceal my weapon? I will not purchase anymore weapons at this point. I left out a bit of the midsection to get to the meat and potatoes so if you have questions fire away.
 

40S&W

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Lake Stevens Wa
Bear with me as this requires some back ground history. *takes deep breath* Here goes: In April of this year I got a new job working as a nurse at a local rehab. Two days later my new employer comes back and says, "Hey did you know you aren't a US Citizen?" I thought that perhaps they got my SSN wrong since I put a line through my zero like I do in the Army. They read me back my number and I confirmed that that was it. So the next day I head out to the local SSN office to see what this was all about. They confirmed that I wasn't a US Citizen and this started an avalanche of activities on my part. Second stop, Homeland Security in Tukwila. I spoke with an immigration officer and he confirmed that I qualify for a "Derivative Citizenship." You see, my father left Panama ten days before I was born. He, my father was a US Citizen by virtue of his dad (my grandfather) being a US Citizen. BY two sisters don't have this issue because they were born in the Canal Zone and much like being born in any other US territory citizenship for them is automatic. I was born in Panama City proper. My father did not do a born aboard certificate. A lot of GIs have children overseas and file a Born Aboard Certificate and the kids become US Citizens almost instant. I don't wanna apply for an N400 Naturalization because then I would be admitting that I thought I was never a citizen and got my wepaons through fraud not to mention my concealed pistol permit and voters registration card. I have applied for the N600 which is the derived citizenship. I was already denied once only because the lady asked if my grandfather worked for the US Government or the Panama Canal at the time. I called my uncle and he said yes that he did and even provided the a copy of the official form. Now for the benefit of you the reader I will skip the midsection of the story to get to the heart of my predicament.

1) All the weapons I have ever bought I always checked US Citizen on the form because I thought of myself as nothing less. I was never held up or delayed and my weapons were purchased without incident.
2) I checked US Citizen on my concealed weapons permit because again I have always thought of myself as nothing less
3) I have a Secret Clearance in the Army. You cannot per regulation receive a clearance without being a US Citizen
4) I have a voters registration card and have voted in several elections.

Now here is my bind...can I legally carry my weapon? Can I legally conceal my weapon? I will not purchase anymore weapons at this point. I left out a bit of the midsection to get to the meat and potatoes so if you have questions fire away.
Right before EVERY form you have ever signed it reads something like this "to the best of my knowledge I state that the above information is true and correct" So for all your past, common sense would tell me you are going to be OK. As for CC or OC or purchase do not until this issue is settled. JMHO
 
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Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Definitely in a bind. If it was me I would be talking to an immigration attorney instead of asking these questions on a gun forum.

Best of luck in getting it all sorted out.


Already ask one and he looked like a deer in the headlights and said, "I have never heard of anything like this before." Translation=A lot of money will be needed to float your case. I am looking for a new one.
 

DamonK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
585
Location
Ft. Lewis, WA
Are you still in the Army? Or have access to the VA? I would try to get them to help you out if they can. They should be able to. But deffinately don't carry until you get everything figured out. Good luck to you.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Wow!

Sorry to hear about your hassle I am positive it will work out in your favor.

Keep your head up and know that stupid technicalities of these laws doesn't mean you are not a citizen to me that is a condition of your mind and heart.

Is this really what our country is coming too? Reminds me of the guy in the Diary of Anne Frank, who thought he was German.
 
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massivedesign

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
865
Location
Olympia, Washington, USA
Man, that blows! What's ironic in this situation is the past... Clearance with .mil, an entire life of going through background checks, NICS checks etc. Only to be "caught" by a local medical facility.

Question, you mention that you started a new job as a nurse. Did you have a previous job as a nurse too? The reason I ask is that DOH has a heck of a application process that includes a pretty lengthily background check as well. Was it your employer, or the DOH that caught the error? Are your credentials being suspended or stripped?
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Seems there are 2 issues:
1) what does your conscience say about exercising various rights?
2) what would gov't agents say about exercising various rights?

To me, you're free & clear on #1.
IANAL, but from what you've said it looks to me like you already are a citizen.
The .gov just hasn't filed the right paperwork to convince itself.

For #2, I would think that it only becomes an issue if there's a problem, if someone does more of an investigation than there has already been (in order to get you that clearance, or the voter registration, or the guns, etc.). I'm curious to know what investigation the hospital did that the gov't so far has not?

You've filed the form so that the gov't admits to itself that your father was a citizen, so you are too.
It'll make them happy & there's less chance of something odd happening down the road.

***

And hey, 40S&W, I see you're new here. Welcome aboard. :)
When you want to reply to a thread you can use the button in the upper or lower left of the whole thing; that gives you a clean window to write in.
When you reply to a post, please trim to just the parts you're replying to, so it's shorter & easier to read.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Lovenox I would suggest you contact your Representative

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

With background checks where Military, FBI and ATF have been done likely numerous times I would tend to think Social Security Office has something wrong, sarcasm on "it is not like them to loose or enter incorrect information into their system!" :eek: sarcasm off....
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
With background checks where Military, FBI and ATF have been done likely numerous times I would tend to think Social Security Office has something wrong, sarcasm on "it is not like them to loose or enter incorrect information into their system!" :eek: sarcasm off....

Agreed. Given the number of people who are walking around legally dead because the Social Security Administration people hit the wrong button by mistake on a system without an Undo button, it's entirely possible any citizenship issues are a figment of the bureaucracy's imagination.
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
IF a Kenya born person can be Prez..I would think you would be OK, just don't disclose your college records.
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
I am really surprised you held a secret clearance but now they are saying you are not a US citizen. It was my understanding that citizenship is a requirement for a security clearance within the US. At my job we had a high level manager that was not a US citizen so he had to have an escort just to come into the area I worked in even though he was our second level manager because he could not have the clearance since he was Canadian.
 

Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Right before EVERY form you have ever signed it reads something like this "to the best of my knowledge I state that the above information is true and correct" So for all your past, common sense would tell me you are going to be OK. As for CC or OC or purchase do not until this issue is settled. JMHO

Those are my sentiments. And I will refrain from purchasing anymore firearms, but that being said since my status isn't setteled how in the world can I legally carry?
 

Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Are you still in the Army? Or have access to the VA? I would try to get them to help you out if they can. They should be able to. But deffinately don't carry until you get everything figured out. Good luck to you.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


They have no lawyers that specialize in immigration. The gentleman that I spoke with (civilian) at Waller Hall on JBLM said I was a shoe in for Derived Citizenship...he has since dropped off of the radar and has been NO help. Oddly enough he is the one we originally saw at Homeland Security in Tukwila...I have since written him off. I am going to write to Senator McCain because he was in the exact perdicament I was in , as a matter of fact he had to prove his citizenship before running in 2008. I tried Murray's office and they never called back. Maybe they know I am a Conservative....lol
 

Lovenox

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
538
Location
Olympia
Man, that blows! What's ironic in this situation is the past... Clearance with .mil, an entire life of going through background checks, NICS checks etc. Only to be "caught" by a local medical facility.

Question, you mention that you started a new job as a nurse. Did you have a previous job as a nurse too? The reason I ask is that DOH has a heck of a application process that includes a pretty lengthily background check as well. Was it your employer, or the DOH that caught the error? Are your credentials being suspended or stripped?

This is the odd part. I have had several jobs prior to the military and after I left and nothing was ever said or noted to me. I just got off of a three year Mobilization at I Corps HQ and went back to civilian life when I landed this job. Like I said earlier, two days later after being hired they said "Hey did you know you aren't a US Citizen...?"
Here is a little more background: Before I left to Kuwait in 2005 I started my paperwork for my secret clearance. While in Kuwait the spooks handling my stuff would call about once week with various questions about this or that. Fast forward to 2008 and I am again MOB'd, this time right on Ft Lewis...I go through the processing at Waller Hall and *poof* I am granted my Secret Clearance. I just had to sign a standard document saying I won't talk about the secret stuff I handled....
 
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