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Thread: Lawrence county at it again!

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Lawrence county at it again!

    From the Levisa Lazer:

    Another "hot" topic at today's meeting was how to handle the state's requirement that the 'open carry' laws for weapons which is a federal law, could be changed so that people are not allowed to carry a weapon in the courthouse.

    County Attorney Michael Hogan and Sheriff Garrett Roberts have been adament in their call for the court to do something about the law which cannot be ignored by localities.

    Sheriff Garrett Roberts and County Attorney Mike Hogan are working on a lawsuit that would forbid the 'open carrying' of weapons in the courthouse. "I don't thimk people realize how many times on Mondays that people lose custody of their children for one reason or another which makes them mad enough to harm court officials," Hogan said. "There are several issues that make people so angry they might use a weapon if they had one."

    The court has been wrestling with the issue since Osborne received a letter and a complaint from a Lawrence County citizen asking that the law be enforced and citizens allowed to carry weapons in the courthouse like the consittution says. Roberts and Hogan do not deny the legality of the 'open carry' law but say they want to challenge it.

    The fiscal court voted 4-0 today on a motion by Bill Lemaster and second by Earl Boggs to have Hogan file a lawsuit challenging the validity of the law although Hogan said he is still researching whether to file it in Lawrence Circuit Court or in Frankfort.

    "I'm all for hunting rights and the right to own weapons," Magistrate Morris Howard said. "But I just can't see people carrying around guns in the courthouse, why would they want to do that?"
    This is getting on my nerves. I didn't get the chance to go to this meeting so I don't know anymore than this article.

    Also, I think someone told me that fiscal courts cannot pass an ordinance (1st or 2nd reading) during a special meeting. Did I just imagine that or can someone point me to that information?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    How obnoxious!

    I emailed Roberts and commented on the article. Are you attending any more meetings? Anyone know when can we file suit on our own based on SB500?

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    It appears we're up against a lot here--all the magistrates, the sheriff, and the commonwealth attorney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    It appears we're up against a lot here--all the magistrates, the sheriff, and the commonwealth attorney.
    Yep, all of them are part of the "good ol boys" club. One starts something and the rest follows. We can file suit January 12th (I think). They don't care what the laws are, they have some power and that is all that matters to them.

    It pisses me off because this is MY tax money trying to take away MY rights that I exercise, this is all because of me. You don't even want to know how many people illegally conceal carry in there, but one person follows state laws and they want your rights removed.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 10-29-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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    I say we pool our money, hire and attorney and follow suit. What do we know at the moment: are there ordinances on the books against OC? signs against it? have they prevented anyone from OCing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    It appears we're up against a lot here--all the magistrates, the sheriff, and the commonwealth attorney.
    I don't think they have enough. Its not a matter of getting a law changed. It will take a constitutional amendment to overturn open carry.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

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    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I don't think they have enough. Its not a matter of getting a law changed. It will take a constitutional amendment to overturn open carry.
    So do you think that they are wasting their time, or do you think these are the "right folks" to make the noise to take away our rights?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    I say we pool our money, hire and attorney and follow suit. What do we know at the moment: are there ordinances on the books against OC? signs against it? have they prevented anyone from OCing?
    They have an ordinance STILL on the books (as far as I know), they're still no signs visible and they had me thrown out of the courthouse once and threatened both KYglockster and I with arrest for carrying firearms in the courthouse.

    These are the people over Lawrence county, all of them. What is getting me down is that to fix ANY problems you have with them you have to go back to the government (them or someone that they know personally) to fix it.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Well, we can always go back and try to attend a meeting while OCing. Did they say what you would be charged with?

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    Cognitive Dissonance

    They argue that they will go ahead and file suit to change the law to make it illegal to open carry, but they threaten you all now saying that you're breaking the law. Either it's legal to OC and they may continue in their legal challenges, or it is illegal to open carry in the courthouse and there's no law to change. Not only are they wrong, but they're trying to have it both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    It appears we're up against a lot here--all the magistrates, the sheriff, and the commonwealth attorney.
    ...and a metric ton of ignorance.

    Really, they think there's some "federal law" at play here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    So do you think that they are wasting their time, or do you think these are the "right folks" to make the noise to take away our rights?
    There are a couple of counties in southeastern Ky. that have bankrupt themselves fighting the court decision that prohibits the 10 commandments in courtrooms. If the taxpayers of Lawrence Co. think this is a wise expenditure of their money I think they should go ahead and fight it. In the mean time they need to obey the law.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

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    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Well, we can always go back and try to attend a meeting while OCing. Did they say what you would be charged with?
    I was thrown out of one meeting, that same day Glockster and I was threatened with arrested. By the next fiscal court meeting the Sheriff (Roberts) talked to a different attorney that said that Glockster and I were legally allowed to carry. After that I have OCed in the courthouse plenty of times. Now this came up.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    Hang on a minute, I'm confused. Why are the officials makign a big deal about this issue? we canno bring firearms into a courthuse that holds the court district/circuit/etc, and that holds drivers licensing. The wording of the article,a nd the subsequent posts, atleast to me, sounds like a bunch of idiot officials trying to ban OC in general from a courthouse with court proceedings where it is already illegal to have firearms within said court proceedings. And everybody keeps sayign courthouse in reference to the building, and I'm having a hard tiem figuring out if you all mean like, a courthouse housing the justice of court, and DL department, or a courthouse like a annex that holds sheriff, and county/state taxing and vehicle taxing seperate of court proceedings/DL dept.

    If it is concerning a 'courthouse' with no district court/circuit court, and no Drivers licensing in it, then well, why dont we have an Armed, OC protect on the public/local property, to show we LAC's outnumber the corrupt good ole boys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    How obnoxious!

    I emailed Roberts and commented on the article. Are you attending any more meetings? Anyone know when can we file suit on our own based on SB500?
    Jan. 15, 2013
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    From the Levisa Lazer:



    This is getting on my nerves. I didn't get the chance to go to this meeting so I don't know anymore than this article.

    Also, I think someone told me that fiscal courts cannot pass an ordinance (1st or 2nd reading) during a special meeting. Did I just imagine that or can someone point me to that information?
    I want to attend the next meeting and inform these people how ignorant they are. They would have to amend the constitution to have OC banned. The CA is acting like weapons are allowed in the ANNEX where the circuit and district courts are held (since he mentioned child support cases and custody rights which are held in district court or sometimes cicruit court) and that is incorrect! These people amaze me at how IGNORANT they are of the law and Constitutional rights in this state!

    They want to challenge the law? I guess they mean the preemption statute which has been on the books since '84, and which was amended LAST YEAR WITH ALL OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE AGREEING TO THE AMENDED STATUTE EXCEPT A SMALL HANDFUL (UNDER 10 LEGISLATURES)! Do they honestly believe they are going to get it rescinded when the entire body of the senate and house voted for the new amendments?

    BOTTOM LINE: if this ordinance is still on the books come January, and they are still trying to enforce it illegally and against the authority of 65.870, then they WILL BE SUED! The entire Fiscal court, the CA, and the Sheriff will be named in the suit since all of them are refusing to obey the law, and they will ALL lose their posistions! They act like nothing will happen to them, however, the statute itself strips them of their immunity! They are a joke!

    Apparently they don't realize there is NOTHING they can do except obey the law! Lousiville, Lexington, Frankfort, etc., have tried doing something about this, and they have ALL failed! Are these guys honestly thinking they will accomplish anything? They are only allowed to do what the state legislature allows them to do, and what they haven't specifically prohibited them from doing, and they CANNOT regulate firearms in ANY WAY!

    Also, what is with the Levisa Lazer saying that Open Carry is a "state requirement," but then they go on to say it is a "federal law?" The reporting from this news agency is beyond unprofessional.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-30-2012 at 08:10 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    We need some volunteers to attend this next meeting and record the entire activity -- from the time we walk in to the time we leave. If we get arrested, then we cannot only sue them for failing to rescind an unlawful ordinance, but for false arrest, deprivation of rights, and so on. Anyone want to help?
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    From the Levisa Lazer:



    This is getting on my nerves. I didn't get the chance to go to this meeting so I don't know anymore than this article.

    Also, I think someone told me that fiscal courts cannot pass an ordinance (1st or 2nd reading) during a special meeting. Did I just imagine that or can someone point me to that information?
    They can have an emergency meeting and enact an ordinance if it is needed immediately. I can't remember the statute -- it is under chapter 65 or 67.

    Has ANYONE tried to remove you or prohibit you from entering the courthouse since our last meeting? If so these need to be documented thoroughly.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-30-2012 at 08:06 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    So when is the next meeting?

    There is an interesting discussion on the comments page. Anyone here commenting on there with the handle "JD"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    We need some volunteers to attend this next meeting and record the entire activity -- from the time we walk in to the time we leave. If we get arrested, then we cannot only sue them for failing to rescind an unlawful ordinance, but for false arrest, deprivation of rights, and so on. Anyone want to help?
    I'm game for it, I have three SLR digital cameras, and two camera/video capturing phones to lend for the effort. But would it be best for camera peeps to go unarmed so we wont be arrested as well, and can watch it unobstructed, or just carry anyway and such?
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Hang on a minute, I'm confused. Why are the officials makign a big deal about this issue? we canno bring firearms into a courthuse that holds the court district/circuit/etc, and that holds drivers licensing. The wording of the article,a nd the subsequent posts, atleast to me, sounds like a bunch of idiot officials trying to ban OC in general from a courthouse with court proceedings where it is already illegal to have firearms within said court proceedings. And everybody keeps sayign courthouse in reference to the building, and I'm having a hard tiem figuring out if you all mean like, a courthouse housing the justice of court, and DL department, or a courthouse like a annex that holds sheriff, and county/state taxing and vehicle taxing seperate of court proceedings/DL dept.

    If it is concerning a 'courthouse' with no district court/circuit court, and no Drivers licensing in it, then well, why dont we have an Armed, OC protect on the public/local property, to show we LAC's outnumber the corrupt good ole boys.
    You can OC in a courthouse unless the Court of Justice is the ONLY occupant of the building. If county offices are present you can OC in that part as long as you stay out of the Court spaces. The Lawrence Co. Courthouse has county offices in it.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You can OC in a courthouse unless the Court of Justice is the ONLY occupant of the building. If county offices are present you can OC in that part as long as you stay out of the Court spaces. The Lawrence Co. Courthouse has county offices in it.
    The Lawrence county courthouse doesn't have anything BUT county offices. The county has an Annex which is a different building that contains the COJ and Circuit clerk. The main courthouse has the Judge/Exec., County attorney, PVA, etc. This is why it is so upsetting when the CA tries to bring the COJ side into this discussion. Nobody is trying to say that firearms have to be allowed in the annex, because state law allows the COJ to prohibit anything they please. We are just trying to make them understand that they CANNOT ban firearms in the County courthouse, which they are obviously having a hard time understanding.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I'm game for it, I have three SLR digital cameras, and two camera/video capturing phones to lend for the effort. But would it be best for camera peeps to go unarmed so we wont be arrested as well, and can watch it unobstructed, or just carry anyway and such?
    Yes, the one that is recording the meeting should be without weapons. If we have them asking us to leave, or arresting us on video then we have solid evidence to sue them for deprivation of our rights. It is rather sad that is must come down to such a thing, but when the government refuses to recognize our rights that are protected by the Kentucky constitution then something MUST be done. We cannot allow them to continue to trample our liberties and violate the laws of this state. I don't want to get arrested, but if that is what it takes to show the good people of Lawrence county what their elected representatives think of their rights and the law then that is what it takes. I am expected to obey the laws of this state all day everyday, as should all government officials.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    So when is the next meeting?

    There is an interesting discussion on the comments page. Anyone here commenting on there with the handle "JD"?
    I have submitted two comments under the name "Brandan Taylor." I am awaiting their moderation. They are lengthy, and contain the correct statutes and other information that can better help people to understand what is really at risk here.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-30-2012 at 11:19 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    So I can protect myself...

    "I'm all for hunting rights and the right to own weapons," Magistrate Morris Howard said. "But I just can't see people carrying around guns in the courthouse, why would they want to do that?"

    Tell Magistrate Morris Howard.... to protect myself from all those people who are upset on Monday... and bring a gun with total disregard to any signs... and start shooting innocent people.

    I know they don't have a police officer at every door and even if they did it wouldn't necessarily work out for them.... Ask the people in Kirkwood Missouri how it worked for their city council.

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