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Thread: The truth - our 2a/oc rights in missouri (must see)

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    The truth - our 2a/oc rights in missouri (must see)

    4 min. and 6 seconds of "Truth" and plain talk!
    You asked, here is down to earth, plain talk about your rights.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKEXs...ature=youtu.be
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    I don't agree with the "God given rights" part, but I like the overall tone very much.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    I don't agree with the "God given rights" part, but I like the overall tone very much.
    What part do you not agree with? If God didn't, who then? Just curious...not starting a religious argument.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    You can argue all day and night whether God has got anything to do with it.

    Generally speaking, Plato was pro-God.

    Whereas Aristotle was rather heavily influenced by King Phillip and so he taught Prince Alexander that might makes right, and God has got nothing to do with it.

    Whichever is more true has been debated for thousands of years now.
    In your opinion, how did we get this right? Just asking, not attempting to flame or anything else.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    This is just some political challenger crying about why he did not get the NRA's endorsement.

    Has little or nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.

    If you want to read about the 2nd Amendment then you need to read Scalia's write up:

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

    This will tell you everything and more than you ever wanted to know.
    He and the opponent both have an "A" rating from the NRA! Next point?
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    What part do you not agree with? If God didn't, who then? Just curious...not starting a religious argument.
    I am going to really screw up how this should be stated, so I'll just forge ahead try my best.

    I just don't believe we need anyone/body/thing giving us rights. What can be given, can also be taken away. These right are inherited by our individually, reasoning, self-existence. Our founding fathers thought they were important enough to be defined in our constitution (even though they used God to do it).

    Not trying to start a religious discussion / argument. I do believe in a supreme being. But this opens up too many questions concerning an atheists or Hindu's or Muslims rights as opposed to yours. Do atheists have rights? Do other religions have different rights?

    To counter the question do you think we need God to give us our rights, or why are our rights only possible when given to us by God?

  7. #7
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Wmsa

    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    I am going to really screw up how this should be stated, so I'll just forge ahead try my best.

    I just don't believe we need anyone/body/thing giving us rights. What can be given, can also be taken away. These right are inherited by our individually, reasoning, self-existence. Our founding fathers thought they were important enough to be defined in our constitution (even though they used God to do it).

    Not trying to start a religious discussion / argument. I do believe in a supreme being. But this opens up too many questions concerning an atheists or Hindu's or Muslims rights as opposed to yours. Do atheists have rights? Do other religions have different rights?

    To counter the question do you think we need God to give us our rights, or why are our rights only possible when given to us by God?
    This is from the Missouri Sports Shooters Alliance:
    It is with great pleasure that I am announcing that the Board of the
    Western Missouri Shooters Alliance has chosen to endorse Ed Martin in
    the Attorney General race.

    We feel that he is by far the best candidate to represent the interests
    and rights of law-abiding gun owners. He understand that criminals will
    behave in a criminal manner and law-abiding citizens should not be put
    in the same category. A firearm is an inanimate object, no matter
    long-gun or hand gun, it is whose finger is on the trigger that
    determines if it will be used for good or not.

    Threats to our Second Amendment rights can come from outside the State
    of Missouri as well, this is also of great concern. We are at a unique
    time in our country's history, and it is necessary for citizens in our
    state to know we have an Attorney General who will stand up for us. Mr.
    Martin is the candidate in the race for Attorney General that will
    defend our State, her citizens and their rights. He has the courage,
    convictions and desire to defend our Second Amendment Rights, and to
    defend laws that will help to recover some of our lost rights.

    As a Missouri based grassroots group, we feel we are in the best
    position to choose the best candidate as we are very familiar with the
    choices. Ed Martin is that man.
    Mr. Martin's endorsement letter may be viewed at http://www.wmsa.net/#martin

    Please spread the word to your Second Amendment loving friends and
    e-mail buddies.


    Respectfully,
    Sheila Stokes-Begley
    President
    Western Missouri Shooters Alliance
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    I am going to really screw up how this should be stated, so I'll just forge ahead try my best.

    I just don't believe we need anyone/body/thing giving us rights. What can be given, can also be taken away. These right are inherited by our individually, reasoning, self-existence. Our founding fathers thought they were important enough to be defined in our constitution (even though they used God to do it).

    Not trying to start a religious discussion / argument. I do believe in a supreme being. But this opens up too many questions concerning an atheists or Hindu's or Muslims rights as opposed to yours. Do atheists have rights? Do other religions have different rights?

    To counter the question do you think we need God to give us our rights, or why are our rights only possible when given to us by God?
    Where did it come from? I'm not starting a religious argument either. But my point is, do they not have to come from somewhere? So how do we obtain this right; and/or who gives us this right? I'm asking because a very recent conversation with some other folks a week or so ago. More curious to your thoughts....not that they are right or wrong.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Where did it come from? I'm not starting a religious argument either. But my point is, do they not have to come from somewhere? So how do we obtain this right; and/or who gives us this right? I'm asking because a very recent conversation with some other folks a week or so ago. More curious to your thoughts....not that they are right or wrong.
    Thinking and reasoning. I exist. I want to protect myself and do other things to promote my welfare. I should be able to recognize other intelligent beings would want to do the same.

    These guys state it better:

    https://sites.google.com/site/freeat...od-s-existence

    The last paragraph sums it up for me.

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It does not matter "where it/they came from" or "who gave it/them" regarding rights. All that really matters is that some dead white guys knew instinctively that government must be barred from infringing upon a citizen's lawful exercise of any right. If Martin walks the walk after he is elected, if he is elected, then we may be in for a pleasant surprise come next year. But, Martin is a politician first and foremost, never forget that.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It does not matter "where it/they came from" or "who gave it/them" regarding rights. All that really matters is that some dead white guys knew instinctively that government must be barred from infringing upon a citizen's lawful exercise of any right. If Martin walks the walk after he is elected, if he is elected, then we may be in for a pleasant surprise come next year. But, Martin is a politician first and foremost, never forget that.
    Not trying to brag, but.... I have a very good relationship with Mr. Martin, we speak often. He knew a lot about 2A rights before I met him. He is a friend of MO. Senator Brian Nieves. Brian introduced the OC preemption bill in the Missouri Senate this year and has a long track record in the Missouri House before he went to the Senate on 2A rights. Brian is every bit a 2A advocate both in and out of the political arena.

    We will see action on OC rights next year, no doubt. Ed Martin as AG can do a lot for OC rights. His oppoenent did a lot for 2A rights while he was a Republican, now a Democrat, NOT and advocate. Our present AG a deligate to the Democratic Nat'l Convention voted for more 2A restrictions as part of their platform!

    We know where he stands now, give Ed Martin a chance, we most certainly have more to gain than to lose. I will be meeting with Ed in Jefferson City with an OC proposal for him as AG of Missouri in January. The whole package is ready for him, he just needs to win the election. Both have an A rating from the NRA but Ed had publically come out in favor of OC rights and specifically mentioned Art.1 Sec. 23 of the Missouri Constitution. Let's go for it.
    For those that missed it, here is the video again:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKEXs...ature=youtu.be

    "Rally Day" at the capitol... I'm waiting for the permit. Hopefully this will be in April. It's not only a chance for the politicians to speak, it's an opportunity for us to speak with them! Tahe it, use it. My guess is there will be many things already in motion before the "Rally Day". Make the time, take the time to go and talk to these folks. 2013 can be the year, but it won't happen from here, it happens in Jefferson City. Yes, politics sucks, but that's the way it is. We can go for it or just sit back and watch our rights get worse instead of better.

    I'm tacking this on here too: Political email...

    Dear Friend,

    While it's hard to believe, there are less than 130 hours until the polls close on Election Day. It's been an incredible journey! Ed and his volunteers have worked tirelessly to make the case to Missouri voters that we need a conservative fighter as our Attorney General.

    As a small business owner, I can tell you it matters who our Attorney General is. When OSHA, the EPA, Obamacare, and the Federal government come knocking on the doors of small businesses across Missouri, we need someone who has our backs. I've known Ed for years and I know, as our next Attorney General, he will fight every single day to protect us.


    But right now, he needs our support. For the last 20 years, the Democrats have ruled our AG's office and they won't give it up without a fight. Money from trial attorneys and special interests across the country has poured into this race to distort the record. Ed needs your support to STAND UP and FIGHT BACK against the liberal machine.


    Will you stand with Ed today? As you read this message, time is running out to make a difference. Ed needs your support of $25, $50, $75 or more right now to win this election and start standing up for Missouri job creators!


    As our next Attorney General, Ed can do a lot of great things for Missouri. I know you want to see someone who will stand up for our freedoms and stop pandering to President Obama and his liberal cohorts.


    With your help, Ed can and will win this election. Will you stand with him today? With less than six days to the election, time is quickly running out.


    Sincerely,
    Randy McArthur

    McArthur's Bakery

    Paid for by Missourians for Ed Martin, Randy McArthur, Treasurer

    http://edmartinformissouri.com/
    Last edited by mspgunner; 10-31-2012 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Added web site for Ed Martin
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    mspgunner, Howdy! Not to get off the subject, but I thought your open carry avatar was interesting. Is there anyway to see it larger, and not blinking, so I can check it out better?
    watch your top knot !

  13. #13
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    mspgunner, Howdy! Not to get off the subject, but I thought your open carry avatar was interesting. Is there anyway to see it larger, and not blinking, so I can check it out better?
    Not that I know of, i got it from a friend.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  14. #14
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Alright, Thanks!
    watch your top knot !

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    Rights are not given, it is that simple.

    Rulers used to take things from folks because they wanted to do so.

    Government was put into place to replace rulers and was given certain restrictions in doing so.

    The government morphed into a giant ruler that now takes things from folks because they want to do so.

    Vote accordingly.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    Thinking and reasoning. I exist. I want to protect myself and do other things to promote my welfare. I should be able to recognize other intelligent beings would want to do the same.

    These guys state it better:

    https://sites.google.com/site/freeat...od-s-existence

    The last paragraph sums it up for me.
    Don't disagree.....that article a good summary...makes one ponder and think, just a little, to understand...rights don't come from a person or gubbermit.

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It does not matter "where it/they came from" or "who gave it/them" regarding rights. All that really matters is that some dead white guys knew instinctively that government must be barred from infringing upon a citizen's lawful exercise of any right. If Martin walks the walk after he is elected, if he is elected, then we may be in for a pleasant surprise come next year. But, Martin is a politician first and foremost, never forget that.
    ....Not to split hairs or argue OC......but it does, to a certain point. If one thinks their rights come from man/gubbermit, then, in theory, they can be taken back and/or grant new ones. There are many out there who think the gubbermit is the "oh Great One' to provide them with "rights". Just like on the TV show this weekend, Last Man Standing, a comment was made by the liberal son-in-law "Healthcare is/should be a fundamental right". It's not. I know it's a show, but it demonstrated a way a thinking by many. My daughter even said it wasn't...think goodness she follows her dads thinking!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    ....Not to split hairs or argue OC......but it does, to a certain point. If one thinks their rights come from man/gubbermit, then, in theory, they can be taken back and/or grant new ones...
    EXACTLY! That's why so many new laws, or those being revised, need to be ever so carefully reviewed by several set of eyes.

    mspgunner, sorry we ganked your thread. still voting for ed : )
    Last edited by Griz; 11-05-2012 at 09:53 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    EXACTLY! That's why so many new laws, or those being revised, need to be ever so carefully reviewed by several set of eyes.

    mspgunner, sorry we ganked your thread. still voting for ed : )
    NP.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  19. #19
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    <snip> ....Not to split hairs or argue OC......but it does, to a certain point. If one thinks their rights come from man/gubbermit, then, in theory, they can be taken back and/or grant new ones. There are many out there who think the gubbermit is the "oh Great One' to provide them with "rights". Just like on the TV show this weekend, Last Man Standing, a comment was made by the liberal son-in-law "Healthcare is/should be a fundamental right". It's not. I know it's a show, but it demonstrated a way a thinking by many. My daughter even said it wasn't...think goodness she follows her dads thinking!
    Interesting observation. However, if the Founders envisioned a Obamacare they would have included (alluded to) a ObamaCare in the Founding documents. The Founders clearly and unambiguously cite where our fundamental rights are derived from, God. They clearly and unambiguously shackled government from infringing upon our fundamental rights.

    Those who seek the split hair typically find a mess of split ends.

    It does not matter "where it/they came from" or "who gave it/them" regarding rights.
    This specific statement does not delineate who the "Who" is. I mistakenly presumed that we all know who the "Who" is.

    God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" - Exodus 3:14
    Rights are rights......so says the "Who", also known as God.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  20. #20
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    The Guberment has exceeded it's authority:
    List of enumerated powers
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
    To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    To provide and maintain a Navy;
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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