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Thread: A Question of VA CC Law

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    A Question of VA CC Law

    So I have a question about VA's CC laws. It is my understanding that one may CC on their own property or place of business without a CHP. I live on the second story of an apartment building, and when I take my dog outside, I would like to be able to CC. Is the grass between buildings where I let my dog relive himself considered "my property" since I, as a resident of the complex, have a right to use it?

    Second Question: I am moving to a new complex next year that has a "back yard." This back yard is not enclosed by a fence, but is accessible to me from my apartment via a back door. Would that area be ok to CC in, and if so, how far from my door would be considered acceptable.

    Please forgive me if this has been discussed before; the search function on this forum is, as many of us have stated, terrible.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The word you are looking for is "curtilege".

    Go here http://www.virginia1774.org/Page1.html and read about it - it's about 1/2 way down the page.

    Spoiler alert - you will not be happy.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I have been doing some reading and it appears that this will hinge on the definition of "curtilage".

    As a matter of reference, I would like to say that some of my family activities extend to this outside area.
    -Walking the dog
    -Checking my mail
    -greeting my wife as she pulls into our parking space

    (and I see that Skid just replied, but I haven't seen it yet so...)
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    A Question of VA CC Law

    I will say it before someone else does. Why not just open carry?


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    Last edited by workinhd; 10-30-2012 at 10:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by workinhd View Post
    I will say it before someone else does. Why not just open carry?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    It is getting cold, and sometimes my puppy has to go out in a hurry. I am concerned about my hoodie covering my holster.

    Also, thanks for the bad news Skid, but at least I have an answer.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    No cites for this, but just my general understanding of the inherent purpose of the law against carrying a concealed weapon...

    The point of the law is to protect other people from being surprised by your ability to suddenly present a weapon from concealment. The exceptions, your own property, apply because it's YOUR property, your rules: any visitors to your property have no right to expect you to not be carrying a concealed weapon. So, if you are in an area that other people have a general right to be, such as common areas of your apartment complex, then the purpose of the law would apply there as well. As seen by the definition of curtilege, generally the places close enough in to your own home as to give you the reasonable exclusion of the general public, aside from those you may personally invite into that area.

    Not a professional opinion, just how the parts all fit together in my head.

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    It is getting cold, and sometimes my puppy has to go out in a hurry. I am concerned about my hoodie covering my holster.

    Also, thanks for the bad news Skid, but at least I have an answer.
    And now for the other shoe!

    (No! Seriously! I am kidding.)

    We have the "Virginia Tuck" for just such occassions. Grab the hem of your hoodie (are you a gangster of some sort? real men wear sweatshirts, some of which may zip and have a hood) and stick it behind your grips. Practice doing that so you can accomplish the action without jamming your handgun.

    And if you have enough time to put on a hoodie before letting your dog out, you have enough time to tuck.

    We are here but to serve and to mock.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    And now for the other shoe!

    (No! Seriously! I am kidding.)

    We have the "Virginia Tuck" for just such occassions. Grab the hem of your hoodie (are you a gangster of some sort? real men wear sweatshirts, some of which may zip and have a hood) and stick it behind your grips. Practice doing that so you can accomplish the action without jamming your handgun.

    And if you have enough time to put on a hoodie before letting your dog out, you have enough time to tuck.

    We are here but to serve and to mock.

    stay safe.
    That is what i usually do. Never knew it was called the "Virginia Tuck" though. And I suppose that my outer garment could be called a zip up sweatshirt with a hood.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    So I have a question about VA's CC laws. It is my understanding that one may CC on their own property or place of business without a CHP. I live on the second story of an apartment building, and when I take my dog outside, I would like to be able to CC. Is the grass between buildings where I let my dog relive himself considered "my property" since I, as a resident of the complex, have a right to use it?

    Second Question: I am moving to a new complex next year that has a "back yard." This back yard is not enclosed by a fence, but is accessible to me from my apartment via a back door. Would that area be ok to CC in, and if so, how far from my door would be considered acceptable.

    Please forgive me if this has been discussed before; the search function on this forum is, as many of us have stated, terrible.

    Without citing, but speaking from my background in real estate management. The common areas do not belong to you, the are not part of your home/curtilege. You are permitted by your lease to use them in accordance with the rules and regulations.

    Same will apply to the new apartment as it does to the existing one - in accordance with lease terms and rules/regulations of each.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Right - the answer to both questions depends entirely on the lease agreement or bylaws & covenants. And it may involve a trip to the office of the clerk of the local circuit court to examine the land records.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The word you are looking for is "curtilege".

    Go here http://www.virginia1774.org/Page1.html and read about it - it's about 1/2 way down the page.

    Spoiler alert - you will not be happy.

    stay safe.
    Good Info. But it appears to me that he "may" be able to CC around his Apt. Am I wrong?

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4guns View Post
    Good Info. But it appears to me that he "may" be able to CC around his Apt. Am I wrong?
    Likely, probably, should/ought to be able to CC. He "may" be able to OC.

    Answer is found in aforementioned lease, rule &reg + attitude of management agent.

    BTW - who knows when you CC?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    A Question of VA CC Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Likely, probably, should/ought to be able to CC. He "may" be able to OC.

    Answer is found in aforementioned lease, rule &reg + attitude of management agent.

    BTW - who knows when you CC?
    I can oc, because there is nothing in my lease prohibiting it, although my landlord told me "you aren't allowed to have that in here" when I dropped off the rent check. I am moving to a new place in January, and I oc'd the entire time i was touring the place and filling out paperwork. No problems there. My concern with CCing is I don't have my CHP, and if something were to happen, I would not want to be in violation of the law.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I can oc, because there is nothing in my lease prohibiting it, although my landlord told me "you aren't allowed to have that in here" when I dropped off the rent check. I am moving to a new place in January, and I oc'd the entire time i was touring the place and filling out paperwork. No problems there. My concern with CCing is I don't have my CHP, and if something were to happen, I would not want to be in violation of the law.
    Exceptionally valid point. Without a doubt you should not CC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Exceptionally valid point. Without a doubt you should not CC.
    Especially on an OC board.

    I hear Peter Nap is not fond of being poked with sharp sticks. But for now he's still willing to talk with those who have bought indulgences.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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