Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: Looking for clarification

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    1,249

    Looking for clarification

    Over that last couple years, I have been studying Iowa Code 724. A question has been asked about a certain section that seems to go against the argument that we MUST have a permit to carry.

    724.5 Duty to carry permit to carry weapons.
    A person armed with a revolver, pistol, or pocket billy concealed upon the person shall have
    in the person’s immediate possession the permit provided for in section 724.4, subsection 4,
    paragraph “i”, and shall produce the permit for inspection at the request of a peace officer.
    Failure to so produce a permit is a simple misdemeanor.
    This section is somewhat confusing to me. In 724.4, it states:
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous
    weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed
    with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or
    who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated
    misdemeanor.
    It seems to me that the two sections contradict each other when it comes to mode of carry. 724.4 says that whether or not the firearm is concealed, you need a permit. But 724.5 says you only need a permit to conceal. So, given what we know of the laws here, what do the rest of you think?
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  2. #2
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    245
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    Over that last couple years, I have been studying Iowa Code 724. A question has been asked about a certain section that seems to go against the argument that we MUST have a permit to carry.
    724.5 Duty to carry permit to carry weapons.
    A person armed with a revolver, pistol, or pocket billy concealed upon the person shall have
    in the person’s immediate possession the permit provided for in section 724.4, subsection 4,
    paragraph “i”, and shall produce the permit for inspection at the request of a peace officer.
    Failure to so produce a permit is a simple misdemeanor.
    This section is somewhat confusing to me. In 724.4, it states:

    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous
    weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed
    with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or
    who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated
    misdemeanor.
    It seems to me that the two sections contradict each other when it comes to mode of carry. 724.4 says that whether or not the firearm is concealed, you need a permit. But 724.5 says you only need a permit to conceal. So, given what we know of the laws here, what do the rest of you think?
    I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to notice this. The focus should be on this part of it:
    A person armed with a revolver, pistol, or pocket billy concealed upon the person
    This is where there is a flaw with English. Should this be read: "A person armed with a revolver or armed with a pistol or armed with a concealed pocket billy shall have in the person’s immediate possession the permit provided for in section 724.4, subsection 4, paragraph “i”, and shall produce the permit for inspection at the request of a peace officer" verbatim? Or, should it be read: "A person armed with a concealed revolver or armed with a concealed pistol or armed with a concealed pocket billy shall produce the permit for inspection at the request of a peace officer" verbatim? The answer to that question lies in the mind of the first judge to have that question asked of him/her at the hearing for the first guy/gal that has the intestinal fortitude to refuse to provide his/her permit to a LEO when requested/demanded to do so. I'm sure there might already be precedent with regards to how to read the law when problems such as these arise, but I haven't been able to find anything binding on courts in Iowa.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491
    I see no contradiction. I also did not score well in language skills in school.

    I interpret the law as saying that there are two classes of weapons, "offensive weapons" and "dangerous weapons". Offensive weapons as defined in Iowa code are generally banned, one does not simply obtain a license to own or carry them. Offensive weapons are things like machine guns and artillery, where possession is limited to agents of the government.

    I understand that Iowa Code breaks down the "dangerous weapons" category into three sub-categories. There are firearms, specified dangerous weapons, and non-specified dangerous weapons. Firearms in Iowa Code is similar to the definition in federal law but not identical. For example federal law does not consider a cap and ball revolver as a firearm but Iowa Code does. Iowa Code does have some "dangerous weapons" specified explicitly, such as knives of a certain size and nature, billy clubs, and I believe stun guns and pepper spray falls in here too. Iowa Code allows for anything used as a dangerous weapon to be considered a dangerous weapon. Use of a rock, baseball bat, ball peen hammer, length of 2x4, or a pry bar as a bludgeon will get a person a dangerous weapons charge. I recall someone charged with using a pickup truck as a dangerous weapon.

    Carrying a firearm openly outside of city limits does not require a permit. Carrying a firearm openly or concealed in city limits requires a permit.

    Carrying a dangerous weapon concealed requires a permit. Openly carrying a dangerous weapon, that is not a firearm, is permissible inside or outside city limits without a permit.

    Where I get confused is if someone can be charged with carrying a concealed weapon if they happen to use something in their pocket, like car keys, as an improvised weapon. Technically it was concealed on the person but it did not become a dangerous weapon until revealed and used to jab out someone's eye. As Darkshadow62988 points out this is likely something to be argued before a judge.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •