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Thread: Being "innocent" is important for self-defense!

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Being "innocent" is important for self-defense!

    We talk about this once in a while, but don't see too many actual cases. Convicted drug dealer was about to be robbed buy two other guys, so he pulls out a gun and shoots, hitting them both.

    All are convicted of various crimes, but the shooter ends up with the most jail time!

    TFred

    Shooter in drug-deal-gone-bad case gets prison time

    A 75-year-old Stafford County man who shot two of the three people who tried to rob him of drugs and money last year was ordered Friday to serve two years in prison.

    Willie Claude Herring pleaded guilty in Stafford Circuit Court to possession of oxycodone with the intent to distribute and possessing a firearm as a felon. In return for Herring’s guilty pleas, prosecutor Michael Hardiman dropped several other charges.

    [snip]

    All three of the would-be robbers were convicted of felonies in the case, but Herring ended up with more prison time than all of them.

    The Atkins brothers were both ordered to serve a year in prison after pleading guilty to attempted robbery and conspiracy; Jenkins was convicted of conspiracy and received a suspended sentence.



    "And I said to myself, this is the business we've chosen..."

  2. #2
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    NEVER miss out on the opportunity to jail someone.... It's the American way.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    NEVER miss out on the opportunity to jail someone.... It's the American way.
    Ha... yep, as I said, it's not a common thing... they had a shooter and victims, and everyone went to jail!

    TFred

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    And yet the shooter's charges and sentences had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOOTING. (Pardon my loudness.)

    Willie Claude Herring pleaded guilty in Stafford Circuit Court to possession of oxycodone with the intent to distribute and possessing a firearm as a felon. In return for Herring’s guilty pleas, prosecutor Michael Hardiman dropped several other charges.
    Apparently one of the charges dropped was possession of a firearm during the commission of a drug crime.*

    Even felons have the right of self defense http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1982002.pdf although it does depend heavily on whether the felon had the firearm prior to the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

    I swan, a knowledge of the criminal code is a dangerous thing.

    stay safe.

    * Some day remind me to tell you about the guy who was serving time for possession of a firearm during the commision of a felony - that was his only conviction. Never was convicted of committing an underlying felony. He was enhanced.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  5. #5
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    * Some day remind me to tell you about the guy who was serving time for possession of a firearm during the commision of a felony - that was his only conviction. Never was convicted of committing an underlying felony. He was enhanced.
    Rates right up there with a standalone conviction of "resisting arrest"...
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    The "innocence" required for justified or "perfect" self defense is being free from fault in bringing about the conflict that led to the necessity for self defense.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    The "innocence" required for justified or "perfect" self defense is being free from fault in bringing about the conflict that led to the necessity for self defense.
    So you are saying that even while committing a/several felony behaviors, if I didn't say or do anything to start the fight, I could claim the defense of justified homicide? Like if I was a convicted felon with a pistol in my pocket while selling drugs and remained polite and business-like but the folks I was selling to decided it would be more fun to jump me?

    Imagine that!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    The "innocence" required for justified or "perfect" self defense is being free from fault in bringing about the conflict that led to the necessity for self defense.
    Interesting. Does this apply in all circumstances?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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