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Gold Carry State

trooper46

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Jun 21, 2010
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Gold carry state my ...you know what.

No restaurant carry, a "permit to purchase" requirement, and OC is not entirely prempted. What a joke.

We gotta get this stuff fixed. Just sayin.
 

WalkingWolf

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Gold carry state my ...you know what.

No restaurant carry, a "permit to purchase" requirement, and OC is not entirely prempted. What a joke.

We gotta get this stuff fixed. Just sayin.

Outside the state restrictions, where is OC not preempted?

I believe even constitutional carry states have restrictions, I agree things could be better, but most of that is because of the privilege card holders who are all too eager to settle for less.
 
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chiefjason

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It boils down to a few things. We have multiple, long standing case law that rules that OC is the Constitutional right of the people. And OC is therefore not addressed by legislation but case law and there are no permit requirements to carry.

And yes, there are things I would like to see fixed as well. Better than some, worse than others.
 

WalkingWolf

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It boils down to a few things. We have multiple, long standing case law that rules that OC is the Constitutional right of the people. And OC is therefore not addressed by legislation but case law and there are no permit requirements to carry.

And yes, there are things I would like to see fixed as well. Better than some, worse than others.

OC is addressed in a few restrictions, such as business that sells and serves alcohol, or assemblies that charge admission. Most everyplace else is open to open carry. But I think(not sure) were put in place when the privilege laws were enacted. As long as I can OC I could care less about CC. I was darn ticked off when GRNC tried to tie restaurant carry to a privilege card, not just PO'd but outright insulted. Take one step towards tying carry to privilege cards and we will all be forced to get them to OC, like other states.

For me it is Constitutional Carry or keep what we got now.
 

cricketdad

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OC is addressed in a few restrictions, such as business that sells and serves alcohol, or assemblies that charge admission. Most everyplace else is open to open carry. But I think(not sure) were put in place when the privilege laws were enacted. As long as I can OC I could care less about CC. I was darn ticked off when GRNC tried to tie restaurant carry to a privilege card, not just PO'd but outright insulted. Take one step towards tying carry to privilege cards and we will all be forced to get them to OC, like other states.

For me it is Constitutional Carry or keep what we got now.

There is a way to change to Constitutional Carry.
1. Find a member of the GA to introduce it.
2. Convince a majority of the members of the GA to vote for it.
3. Convince the Governor not to veto it.

That shouldn't be too hard to do.
 

Mike

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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Gold carry state my ...you know what.

No restaurant carry, a "permit to purchase" requirement, and OC is not entirely prempted. What a joke.

We gotta get this stuff fixed. Just sayin.

Open carry categorization has nothing to do with restaurant carry or purchase regulations. To be a gold star open carry state, a state must generally allow open carry without a permit and generally preempt localities from banning open carry. NC state statute preempts localities generally from banning open carry on streets, sidewalks, and public places; the NC S. Ct. in State v. Kerner forbids NC or its localities from banning or requiring a license to open carry military sized handguns. Several localities have minimum handgun sizes. so just open carry real handguns, not pocket rockets. It's the law!
 

chiefjason

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There is a way to change to Constitutional Carry.
1. Find a member of the GA to introduce it.
2. Convince a majority of the members of the GA to vote for it.
3. Convince the Governor not to veto it.

That shouldn't be too hard to do.

Sounds like a plan! lol Unfortunately we are loosing one of the guys that might have introduced it from Catawba county.


WW, restrictions are addressed but the legality of OC is not addressed in the statutes. That was more of what I was trying to get at.
 

cricketdad

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Sounds like a plan! lol Unfortunately we are loosing one of the guys that might have introduced it from Catawba county.


WW, restrictions are addressed but the legality of OC is not addressed in the statutes. That was more of what I was trying to get at.

OC is not legal in the state. OC is not illegal. Once you start addressing OC with statutes then it become regulated, We don't want that.
 

WalkingWolf

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"Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice."

We need no statutes to cover OC, we have the US and NC constitution and NC Supreme court rulings to stand on. To those CC lovers who would like to infringe on the OC right, please read above. This is why I am so against tying any right such as restaurant carry to the privilege card, if they did and it was accepted the GA might get the idea they could tie OC to the card as other states have. I appreciate what GRNC has done, but back off trying to expand carrying under the umbrella of a privilege, that is not supporting the RKBA. Personally I wish they never enacted the concealed carry law. There were a lot more OCing in our area when there was no CC law, and it was no hassle OCing.
 
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chiefjason

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I think we are chasing each other in circles saying the same thing differently.

Question though. Is there anyone in the legislature that seems to be willing to address Constitutional Carry? Or any of the other issues like Restaurants that serve or school property issues? The main reason my wife does not carry right know is the school issue. It's maddening to deal with some of these things.
 

WalkingWolf

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I think we are chasing each other in circles saying the same thing differently.

Question though. Is there anyone in the legislature that seems to be willing to address Constitutional Carry? Or any of the other issues like Restaurants that serve or school property issues? The main reason my wife does not carry right know is the school issue. It's maddening to deal with some of these things.

GRNC addressed and pushed for a bill that would have allowed resturant carry with a privilege card. Initial I had contacted my reps backing it out of respect for CCers. But since CCers and some who are members of GRNC showed so much disrespect towards OCers I have changed my position. I have on my own mailed reps to ask for constitutional carry, but I am but one person. IMO GRNC is only a tad better than NRA, which have become completely political and more worried about their own hides and interests instead of RKBA.

As far as the school issue you should not worry about it too much. The feds do not seem to be patrolling the schools, and the only cases have been in conjunction with other infractions of the law. Again you can get around it by getting a privilege card, supposedly. Government seems to be on a kick of turning rights into privileges which can be taken away at anytime they want. You can also carry a antique firearm(cap and ball) legally, the best for this is the 1858 Remington IMO. Though you may run into problems convincing police as they do not know the law very well. GFSZA has no jurisdiction on private property such as store parking lots or stores within the zone.
 

cricketdad

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GRNC addressed and pushed for a bill that would have allowed resturant carry with a privilege card. Initial I had contacted my reps backing it out of respect for CCers. But since CCers and some who are members of GRNC showed so much disrespect towards OCers I have changed my position. I have on my own mailed reps to ask for constitutional carry, but I am but one person. IMO GRNC is only a tad better than NRA, which have become completely political and more worried about their own hides and interests instead of RKBA.
Did you get any response from them?
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Did you get any response from them?

Actually no, at least not yet, but then this is a election year, and they are probably busy with stuff. It hasn't been that long ago. I usually get faster response to emails. I got responses from McCain in 2008, and I have received responses from Romney. I have emailed Obama, but I believe his handlers delete anything that counters his agenda. Of course though if my wife gets to the mailbox she throws away anything that looks like junk mail.
 

cricketdad

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Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
I have been asked by Paul Valone to re post this.


To those who complain that HB 111, which would eliminate restrictions on concealed handgun permit-holders in restaurants and parks, fails to include open carry in those areas, a reality check is in order, particularly with regard to open carry in bars.

Yes, “bars” are what we are talking about. Having wrangled with the problem since 1997 (SB 1), I have a fair idea of what I’m talking about. You see, under § 18B-1000, “bars” do not exist in North Carolina. All such establishments are “restaurants,” and all theoretically derive at least 30% of revenues from food and non-alcoholic beverages. Fictional though this may be, it becomes difficult to impossible to write legislation allowing guns in restaurants but not in, say, biker bars.



GRNC is promoting the image of North Carolina concealed handgun permit-holders -- certified sane, sober and law abiding -- protecting their toddlers as they take the family to dinner. Presume, for a moment, we include open carry for individuals of indeterminate character and legality. Should we actually manage to recruit a sponsor for such a bill, the first time it comes up for a committee hearing, Dan Blue or Deborah Ross will paint lurid images of bad-ass bikers, pimps and drug dealers legally packing in the dirt-floored dive to which the cops dispatch for the murder-of-the-week. Not only will our sponsor run screaming from the committee room, GRNC will become known as the organization that hangs its sponsors out to dry.



In the extremely unlikely event we were to ram such legislation down the throats of the NC Retail Merchants’ Association, the NC Restaurant Association, the NC Chamber of Commerce, and the NC Sheriffs’ Association – all of whom have deep pockets to spend on lobbyists; even if the McClatchy news organs formerly known as Pravda didn’t derail it, the net result would be fewer restaurants in which anyone could carry. Why? Because in the ensuing hysteria, even restaurants that don’t serve alcohol would post against firearms – which is their right under the Fifth Amendment.



GRNC’s goal is to achieve improvements for NC gun owners. We might be able to achieve a loosening of restrictions for concealed handgun permit-holders. For open carry, those improvements are, at present, unachievable just as a “shall issue” concealed handgun law was unachievable until 1995.



Should anyone choose not to believe me, I have a challenge: Meet me on Jones Street, at the Printed Bills office of the NC Legislative Building at 0830 on the first Tuesday of the legislative session, just like members of the GRNC Legislative Action Team do. I will personally introduce you to the legislators who sponsor gun bills and you can make your case.
 

WalkingWolf

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Excuses, excuses, excuses~Sounds like a politician...

Why does it not surprise me that someone who stereotypes bikers would also stereotype open carriers. PA they can open carry in bars, IMO that should be the bar or restaurant owners choice. Grass Roots that is rooted in stereotyping and fighting against the 2A.

"GRNC is promoting the image of North Carolina concealed handgun permit-holders"

That spells it out clearly, why would any open carrier in their right mind support such a one sided organization.
 
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ncwabbit

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Nov 2, 2011
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rural religious usa
oh goodie another GRNC supporter :banana:

nice to meet ya walking wolf and your stellar perspective of GRNC!!

wabbit

ps: care to meet for coffee/chai?

pps: interesting to note the OP posted but once on this thread
 
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WalkingWolf

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oh goodie another GRNC supporter :banana:

nice to meet ya walking wolf and your stellar perspective of GRNC!!

wabbit

ps: care to meet for coffee/chai?

pps: interesting to note the OP posted but once on this thread

I'll have to check with the boss when, are you close to Sanford? or Spring Lake?

I am surprised at GRNC disdain for open carry considering all the support they have gotten from the OC community. It is really becoming clear that they could care less about the rest of gun owners or even the 2A. If there is not a open carry organization in NC there should be, OCers are wasting their time supporting GRNC. Paul Valone has made it clear he wants nothing to do with us, unless it helps him.
 

chiefjason

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So, it's just another version of a hidden gun is a safer gun. Nice. Even State v Kerner, which actually laid the groundwork for a lot of the carry restriction in NC, does not mention not carrying in bars. Just not carrying while intoxicated. Which oddly enough is not illegal if you are OC'ing. Go figure. Sometimes I feel like people are standing on their head trying to convince me the world is upside down.

I understand the difficult nature of it. Maybe even the perception issue. But our legislatures, and now Valone, are acting like we are off base and don't have Constitutional authority to OC. So nobody has the spine to stand up and tell some of these fools we still have a Constitution? I get incrementalism and how it works in Gov. But when the Constitution is clearly on your side you should push your advantage when it presents itself.
 

FPV02

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Here we go again

I'll have to check with the boss when, are you close to Sanford? or Spring Lake?

I am surprised at GRNC disdain for open carry considering all the support they have gotten from the OC community. It is really becoming clear that they could care less about the rest of gun owners or even the 2A. If there is not a open carry organization in NC there should be, OCers are wasting their time supporting GRNC. Paul Valone has made it clear he wants nothing to do with us, unless it helps him.

Apparently, I need to weigh in on this. First, GRNC does not express "disdain" for any part of the gun rights community. You probably don't know this, but you are talking to the guy who wrote the first and only "constitutional carry" (then called "Vermont carry") bill ever introduced in North Carolina. When Senate President Pro Tem Marc Basnight refused to give it a hearing, we had Sen. Hugh Webster file a discharge petition, which garnered the signatures of a number of Republicans. When Basnight wrongly ruled the petition not germaine to the debate, Hugh became the first Senator in over 100 years to challenge the ruling of the chair -- an extraordinarily ballsy maneuver which ultimately caused the Democratic Senate Committee, in the next election, to systematically target petition signatories with mailings featuring a child's book bag, an apple for the teacher, and a gun. They took out the most pro-gun senators in the chamber, including RL Clark, Jesse Ledbetter, John Blust and (ultimately) Hugh Webster himself.

What I learned was to not risk pro-gun legislators on quixotic, unwinnable battles, but instead to gain ground one foot at a time. When I say I can sell the state on concealed handgun permit-holders who are certified as sane, sober and law-abiding, that does not mean I am done there, nor does it mean I value OC supporters an less than CHP-holders. What it means is that I have a better chance of selling that to the public, which will then discover that, low and behold, no disasters come of restaurant carry. Then and only then do we revisit the issue, quietly working to remove the restrictions of G.S. 14-263 altogether.

Let me give you a recent example. Did you know GRNC just made machine guns unequivocally legal in North Carolina? Previously, two conflicting statutes caused the Attorney General to advise against signing Form 4s and could have subjected thousands of Title II collectors to felony prosecution. Did we do it overnight? Nope. Took 8 years. Did we do it by introducing a bill entitled: "Machine Guns Legal in North Carolina"? Hell, no. Politicians would have run screaming for the exits.

What we did was to quietly slip it into an omnibus bill, as a committee substitute, which contained plenty of other contentious issues.We didn't use the word "machine gun" or "weapon of mass destruction" once. As a result, the measure received ZERO debate and was signed into law last year.

What I sell the public on, and what I am actually after, are two very different things. Tacitcs, folks. Tactics. I've been at this for 18 years, and I know a little about how to get a bill passed instead of running nose first into a brick wall.

Paul Valone
President, Grass Roots North Carolina
 
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WalkingWolf

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Apparently, I need to weigh in on this. First, GRNC does not express "disdain" for any part of the gun rights community. You probably don't know this, but you are talking to the guy who wrote the first and only "constitutional carry" (then called "Vermont carry") bill ever introduced in North Carolina. When Senate President Pro Tem Marc Basnight refused to give it a hearing, we had Sen. Hugh Webster file a discharge petition, which garnered the signatures of a number of Republicans. When Basnight wrongly ruled the petition not germaine to the debate, Hugh became the first Senator in over 100 years to challenge the ruling of the chair -- an extraordinarily ballsy maneuver which ultimately caused the Democratic Senate Committee, in the next election, to systematically target petition signatories with mailings featuring a child's book bag, an apple for the teacher, and a gun. They took out the most pro-gun senators in the chamber, including RL Clark, Jesse Ledbetter, John Blust and (ultimately) Hugh Webster himself.

What I learned was to not risk pro-gun legislators on quixotic, unwinnable battles, but instead to gain ground one foot at a time. When I say I can sell the state on concealed handgun permit-holders who are certified as sane, sober and law-abiding, that does not mean I am done there, nor does it mean I value OC supporters an less than CHP-holders. What it means is that I have a better chance of selling that to the public, which will then discover that, low and behold, no disasters come of restaurant carry. Then and only then do we revisit the issue, quietly working to remove the restrictions of G.S. 14-263 altogether.

Let me give you a recent example. Did you know GRNC just made machine guns unequivocally legal in North Carolina? Previously, two conflicting statutes caused the Attorney General to advise against signing Form 4s and could have subjected thousands of Title II collectors to felony prosecution. Did we do it overnight? Nope. Took 8 years. Did we do it by introducing a bill entitled: "Machine Guns Legal in North Carolina"? Hell, no. Politicians would have run screaming for the exits.

What we did was to quietly slip it into an omnibus bill, as a committee substitute, which contained plenty of other contentious issues.We didn't use the word "machine gun" or "weapon of mass destruction" once. As a result, the measure received ZERO debate and was signed into law last year.

What I sell the public on, and what I am actually after, are two very different things. Tacitcs, folks. Tactics. I've been at this for 18 years, and I know a little about how to get a bill passed instead of running nose first into a brick wall.

Paul Valone
President, Grass Roots North Carolina
Your first letter that you posted by proxy was an insult to motorcycle riders, open carriers, as well family. It was stereotyping of individuals and made it very clear that open carry was not only not your cup of tea, but offensive. You can play and claim tactics, but it is clear from that posting that you were involved with saddling us with these restrictions in the first place. I was perfectly happy with open carry as it was before YOU stuck you nose in it.

Clue we already have constitutional open carry, stop fudging with it for YOUR agenda!

Thanks BUT no thanks!

BTW this is open carry site, something you are not interested in. I will ask you to keep your condescending tone to your own.
 
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