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Thread: I think there was a rape.

  1. #1
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    I think there was a rape.

    Normally, I can only hear muffled sounds from my neighboring apartments and only when they are loud. So it was surprising when I heard what sounded like a woman saying, "Get off me!" loudly enough and clearly enough for me to unmistakably understand--even with my normally tricky hearing. I had just gone to bed, and the exclamation seemed to be coming from the apartment below. It could have been something harmless like a pet jumping into her lap or even some friendly wrestling.

    However, when the demand was repeated over and over, got even louder, and took on a screaming rather than just yelling quality, I took note. The constant "Get off me!" was now being interspersed with "No!" "Stop it!" and "Don't do that!" so I decided to try to find the source of the screaming, and see if I could help. I went downstairs and stood at the door. I could hear the TV in the front room, but could not make out what was on it. From what seemed further back in the apartment, I could make out the same four demands I had heard from my bedroom. I knocked on the door. The demands ceased, but the TV kept going. After waiting about half a minute, I heard muffled voices but could not make out what was being said. I knocked again and asked if anyone needed help. Still no reply but again the voices stopped.

    Later, the demands of "Get off me!" started again. I pounded on the door and asked if I needed to call 911. Not knowing what was going on made me hesitant to take that step. By this time, another couple from the building came by on their way to go do laundry. They were curious, but did not seem to want to get involved. The most they would do is to try knocking on the door once and offer his phone number in case I felt I needed help later. Oh, and they also gave the local PD dispatch number. Off they went to do laundry.

    After hearing more demands start up in the apartment once more, I again pounded on the door and announced that unless I heard otherwise, I was calling 911. After getting no answer, I called the dispatch. I have no idea what will happen with my Alabama cell if I call 911 in Ohio. Twenty-odd minutes later, a patrol car arrived. (When seconds count, the police are almost half an hour away!) I relayed my observations and actions to the lone responding officer and went back to my apartment. I listened through my partly opened door as the officer seemed to be walking around the hallway below. He was probably listening for activity from the apartment. Hearing nothing (the screaming had long since stopped), he knocked on the door. As happened to me, his knocking met with no response. He knocked again and announced, "Police." Nothing. He knocked a few more times, still announcing, and finally a woman opened the door. I could hear his half of the conversation, but not hers. He asked if she was OK. Based on what he was saying, I concluded that her responses led him to believe that there was nothing he could do, and he left.

    I shut and latched my door and prepared to return to bed. I could hear voices coming from and movement about the apartment below. One of the voices seemed to be a man. I could not make out what was being said. However, since I could tell that people were talking, that talking had to be fairly loud. It just wasn't the loud screaming and yelling that allowed me to understand the words. It was still loud and concerned me. I did a quick check of my Glock and moved it from its usual nighttime resting place inside my closet in its holster to on the dresser, unholstered.

    Nothing further happened, and after about an hour and a half, probably somewhere around 2 am, I finally drifted off. No indications of any repercussions this morning. What happened last night sure sounded like an assault, quite probably sexual. I hope that my intervention, minimal as it was, somehow mitigated the attack. I don't know, and I wonder if there will be repercussions. The woman, if she was indeed attacked, did not welcome any assistance. So, even if my actions helped her, she ain't ever gonna want to have anything to do with the interloper upstairs. The perp, if he was a perp, sure ain't gonna be happy with the guy that almost got him arrested.

    I keep running over in my mind whether I chose the right course of action. I think I did. No direct intervention, since I had incomplete information, but called on someone who could intervene in exigent circumstances. Those circumstances clearly did not develop while the officer was there, but that could be because the situation was quelled--which may have been the only possible positive outcome.

    Oh, well. I just needed to get this off my chest, and I currently don't have a Wendy right here. *sniff* Also, it is good to get my recollections down in writing should I need to be refreshed on them.

    I know some of you would have done nothing, some would have gone in with guns-a-blazing, and some would have taken some alternate in between action. So constructive comments are welcome. I can't stop destructive comments, but I hope they are kept to a minimum. Fire...er...post away!


    On edit: I think the belongs in the Social Lounge. I don't know why I put it in General. I did not OC at all during the goings on. Holsters do not attach to sweat pants well, and brandishing would have been a foolish course of action.
    Last edited by eye95; 11-03-2012 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    It's good that you are concerned enough for others to care, unlike the others doing laundry. Brainwashed into non action.

    Every situation is different and plays out differently, I hope it wasn't a rape and if it was I hope your actions thwarted it.

    I think you did the what you thought best thank you for being a concerned and active civilian.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    So you do have a decent side even if you are stubborn.

    I hate dealing with the police however I do believe you did the right thing.

    So, I hope you're safe and that she is also.

    I would have called the police also, given the information that you have provided.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    ...
    Ya gotta work the insult in there don't you?

    I'm done with you.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I had a similar incident back in the '90s, although it was DV rather than sexual assault.

    The first time I heard the woman in the apartment above me screaming, I waited to hear anything else and when nothing happened, I didn't call the cops.

    The second time, I called the cops. They came but [as usual] she claimed nothing had happened.

    A short while later, the guy climbed out on the window ledge and threatened to jump.

    I called the cops again and when he tried to fight them on the ledge, they jerked him back in and "subdued" him.

    The last I saw of him, he was sitting handcuffed in the back of a squad car, banging his head on the side window glass, a la "COPS".

    There's actually a lot more detail, but I'd rather get another cup of coffee than relate it.

    I will state that this involved the Berea, Ohio Police Department, one of the few police departments I've ever seen that was more than a gang of thugs and low grade morons. I've actually seen them do the job of another law enforcement agency when it wouldn't do it itself. They're part of the 1% of cops made to look bad by the other 99%.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  6. #6
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I think he handled it the best he could've, I mean entering The apartment is a bad idea, if you don't know who lives there. It could be the tv or them playing a weird sex game or whatever. And if you obstruct the door you're now cornering a violent felon, something I wouldn't want to do while armed. Now if the woman was a relative or someone I knew well enough to know this is an assault I'm not waiting 20 minutes for the cops to show up, but the average neighbor? Well id do what eye95 did.

    @Eye95 you should go to a cop store and get a nylon gun belt with a snap buckle. That way you can quickly mount the belt have a holster for your firearm if you need one quickly
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Ya gotta work the insult in there don't you?

    I'm done with you.
    I did not know that calling someone stubborn was an insult.

    I am stubborn and I know it. I am also hardheaded.

    Now if I had called you wrong headed and stubborn that would have been an insult. I know of plenty of people on and off of here who are that way and I won't say who they are.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Ya gotta work the insult in there don't you?

    I'm done with you.
    If every real or implied insult YOU posted on this forum were removed, your post count would be cut in half.

    "I'm done with you".
    I didn't get the memo that your opinion established the legitimacy of other's views, understandings, or progress towards understanding. That your dismissal carry weight. That your application of tolerance or lack of it determined one's standing in this community.

    I know I should marvel at your doing something responsible, like calling the cops when a situation indicated someone might require intervention, and should by reason of that act alone tolerate your boorish responses to all who disagree with you. I just haven't grown that much yet.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

  9. #9
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The OT express to Lockdown is now departing platform GD, ALL ABOARD!
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Sounds like a good handling.

    One never knows what sort of "play" or scenario they might be imagining.

    Something else to keep in mind, assuming it wasn't play, and based on the report, the woman's commands were probably working to a degree. Yes, the guy kept repeating, but it sure sounds like he temporarily yielded to the demand each time. As long as the guy kept coming back, it would tend to mean he was getting of off her in between commands. Which is just another way of saying, she still had some degree of control over the situation.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-03-2012 at 01:15 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Yup, the "weird sex games" all being variations of "stop it stop it I love it."

    It is never a good idea to interrupt your neighbors during their wierd sex games.

    Well some people get turned on by being placed in handcuffs while being struck with a whip, that shnit I don't want to know about, if it's someone I don't know I'll call the cops and let them sort it out....

    People are strange. and I'm sure as hell not going to open the door and find out for myself. since most apartments only have one way in or out of the unit If I open the door and it really is a rape I'm now obstructing a violent felon who may be armed from leaving and I'm not trained to take these people on.

    And if it is a wierd sex game going on now They're going to file trespassing charges and if I was armed while doing so the PA may even a home invasion charge. no thanks. If I decide I want to do all that I'll go down to the precinct and apply to be a police officer. as an average citizen I'm here to look out for myself and my family, everyone else is observe and report.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I think there was a rape.

    You quoted the post, so I guess I'm stuck reading it.

    I don't care if the screaming was part of some sick sex game. Once I heard it, I was morally obligated to do something. The only reasonable conclusion was that something bad was going and and someone was in trouble.

    There is a reason I no longer read those posts and this post really illustrates it.


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  13. #13
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    You quoted the post, so I guess I'm stuck reading it.

    I don't care if the screaming was part of some sick sex game. Once I heard it, I was morally obligated to do something. The only reasonable conclusion was that something bad was going and and someone was in trouble.

    There is a reason I no longer read those posts and this post really illustrates it.


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    You completely missed my point, I said what you did was the best course of action, I was stating you couldn't have done more without actually entering the unit and that's a bad idea for many reasons.

    please read what I post in context.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  14. #14
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    His story reads more like that of a ticking time bomb though.

    Ohio aint Alabama. That's what I tried to tell him the first time in another thread.

    He missed the whole point and focused-in on 3 letters only though.

    I am trying to direct him back to the Bible though. Ergo no moral obligations on his part.

    If he reads the 7th commandment and cross references it to a Hebrew lexicon, he will see that it is only talking about swapping. That's what the original Hebrew word means.

    And if he reads the New Testament and cross referenes it to a Greek lexicon, he will see that it is only talking about prostitution. That's what the original Greek word means.

    Nothing in the Bible though about weird sex games. Ergo no moral obligations on his part.
    Well there's no moral obligation to break into your neighbors bedroom in a striped shirt with a whistle yelling "foul!" if your neighbors are doing some kind of wierd thing.

    But if honestly believed a lady was being assaulted in her apartment, which he did believe and the belief judging from what he posted was reasonable then yes I believe it would be OK to call the cops. All I ever said was reasons not to actually enter the unit yourself as you don't know what's really happening
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  15. #15
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    With all the LEOs being laid off across the country as property tax revenues and sales tax revenues of the municipalities go down, I doubt the LEOs would respond to the call.
    Home invasion with possible sexual assault is a high priority call. by the time the lady on the phone is asking you questions there should already be officers on the way. I really doubt it took the cops 20 minutes to get there too. Where I live a home invasion call is like a red alert scramble, officers will be there in minutes. (spare the seconds count argument, I know that already, that's not the point) Also while I am in the unincorporated south Kitsap county and there's only 4 deputies in the south kitsap region, Police Officers from the much better staffed city of Port Orchard Police Department will respond to out of city calls if there is no deputies close enough to arrive there first. POPD and Kitsap Sheriff work very closely together in the south part of the county. but the point of this is, in most suburban areas a call like that should be much less then 20 minutes. It can seem like a long time when someone is getting assaulted, and maybe Eye95 lives in a very remote rural area. but even in understaffed areas like where I live, a home invasion call should take much less then 20 minutes. years ago my best friend and his mother came home early from a vacation, my friends dad was very ill and stuck in bed and he heard steps in the house and thought it was a burglar and he called the sheriff from the room extension... three deputies and a sergeant were there in 3 minutes and another deputy and a POPD officer were 30 seconds behind them.

    So with what I know about police responses. I'm certain that unless this is in a a very rural area with many long roads that police response was not really that long.

    *I've looked up the demographics and staffing levels of Fairborn Ohio and Greene County and compared to Kitsap County, relatively similar, I don't think it really took cops 20 minutes to show. I'm sure eye95 felt that way, but unless he had a stop watch, i think it was a time effect on him thinking someone was in danger. if it really was 20 minutes then Fairborn/Greene County needs to improve their response time.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-03-2012 at 05:17 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  16. #16
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Pray tell where in the Bible with all the other moral obligations does it say one is obligated to interrupt other peoples' weird sex games?
    A couple of Milwaukee cops took the same attitude when they found a naked Hmong boy wandering in the street in a daze, bleeding from the rectum... so they gave him back to Jeffrey Dahmer.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Nothing in the Bible though about weird sex games.
    Ergo no moral obligations on his part.
    Wow... how arrogant.
    There are other belief systems, not based on your religion.
    And then there's just plain old human kindness, which is in short supply in some places.
    One need not be religious of any sort to feel a moral obligation, to be kind, or to be a good person.

  18. #18
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    MKE , this will probably make you mad, but here goes

    if a woman does not complain of a rape then no rape happened. period

    if a woman lets a man abuse her and she sticks with and up for him, then she earns what ever happens to her

    I95, if what you wrote is true, then you did everything you could have done. you are under no obligation to think other wise
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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  19. #19
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Another thing to think about ...

    ... if you have to think about whether there was a rape or not then there probably was not a rape.

    Here is a story about a rape ... NYC too ... very famous ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese
    Wait so you criticized eye95 for getting involved and then turn around and post a story in which someone was killed becuase no one got involved?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  20. #20
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    I think there was a rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    You completely missed my point, I said what you did was the best course of action, I was stating you couldn't have done more without actually entering the unit and that's a bad idea for many reasons.

    please read what I post in context.
    I was responding to the quote, not to your post. Normally I don't read his tripe. Unfortunately, once you quoted him it came into my field of view, so I responded.


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  21. #21
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I was responding to the quote, not to your post. Normally I don't read his tripe. Unfortunately, once you quoted him it came into my field of view, so I responded.


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    Well after reading post number 30 from shoobee, I agree with you

    Shoobee.... *CLICK* Ignore
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    MKE , this will probably make you mad, but here goes

    if a woman does not complain of a rape then no rape happened. period
    So "not complaining" means she consents, and it wasn't rape, even if she was forced against her will?

    if a woman lets a man abuse her and she sticks with and up for him, then she earns what ever happens to her
    And if she's just trying to minimize future damage, does she still deserve it? You clearly do not understand psychological abuse.

    I95, if what you wrote is true, then you did everything you could have done. you are under no obligation to think other wise
    Not every action is made because of a sense of obligation.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    I suppose the LEOs just wanted him off the street in his current state of undress and so they thought they were doing him a favor.
    Certainly anything reminiscent of an "investigation" might have delayed that.

    Besides, what's one dead (and possibly eaten) Asian kid, more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    LGBT crimes are nobody's forte.
    Apparently not murder either...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    He obviously does not know anything about city women and their weird sex games.
    Yeah, and some of them even want an education.

    They know how to deal with that kind of thing in Pakistan, DON'T they?
    Last edited by Deanimator; 11-04-2012 at 08:14 AM.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Pray tell where in the Bible with all the other moral obligations does it say one is obligated to interrupt other peoples' weird sex games?

    I would like to see book, chapter, and verse.

    It's definitely not one of the 10 commandments.

    It's not anywhere else in Leviticus or Deuteronomy either.

    And Jesus did not mention it in the sermon on the mount or in any of this other parables like the good Samaritan.
    Not all "moral obligations" originate in the bible. Perhaps yours do. Mine don't. And who knows about the OP's.

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