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Thread: Old U.S. currency in my collection (Freedom1man encouraged to comment)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Old U.S. currency in my collection (Freedom1man encouraged to comment)

    So I got my hands on these last year, when I was working at a QFC grocery store, we had an older customer tender these as payment. I immediately had my friend drop a 5 in the till and paid my friend a small finders fee for showing them to me.

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    If you'll notice these have Red serial numbers and treasury seals These are UNITED STATES NOTES, wheras the paper currency circulating today are FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES what's the difference you ask? well for a period of time, not much, and today they're collectors items.

    From what I can understand and this is where F1man might be able to correct me, US notes began to be issued directly by the United States Treasury during the civil war and was currency that was supported by bullion and other tangible assets owned by the US government.

    Versus today where Federal Reserve notes are issued by the treasury to the federal reserve (who basically owns all debts of the US government which is in turn indebted to the fed) and the federal reserve then decides to circulate the FRNs. US Notes ceased to be printed in 1971 after the US finally put the final nail in the gold standard coffin. actually for a few years the BP&E made both US Notes and Fed notes side by side for several years and to average joe blow on the street they meant the exact same thing (cash) nowadays the few remaining US notes are collectors items, although they still are considered circulating currency and are still legal tender for debts.

    now my Series 1926Gs are worth 20 dollars a piece in mint (haha, money pun, shut up I know the mint is for coins) condition. as collector item maybe I can squeeze 5 dollars becuase of their obviously well worn condition. too bad the old geezer didn't pay in Series 1926A or I'd get like 45 bucks a piece! lol

    The Secratary of the treasury signature is that of John W Snyder, who was the Sec of Treasury appointed by Harry Truman in 1946, and he served until 1953 so they must have been printed in that time period
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 11-04-2012 at 11:25 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    hi eric.
    I have a 1928f series sr D50636463A with snyder sig...
    Also have 1953 series sr A3076859A with seal on left instead of right side...
    And a 1$ Silver certificate 1957A series sr K49526550A blue seal and numbers...
    All in terrible +1 condition
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    hi eric.
    I have a 1928f series sr D50636463A with snyder sig...
    Also have 1953 series sr A3076859A with seal on left instead of right side...
    And a 1$ Silver certificate 1957A series sr K49526550A blue seal and numbers...
    All in terrible +1 condition
    Wow, a blue seal, I've never seen them. Only red and of course green. Silver certificates are pretty rare now I believe, can they still be tendered for payment like my US notes? Not like I'd ever do that with one but still
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    After the Lincoln Green back all federal paper is from the Federal Reserve bank.

    They for short time had time had to keep a deposit of silver that could be redeemed at any associated bank.

    Great find though an for 5 modern FRNs that was a steal. Good job.

    I don't remember the year but you could no longer redeem them for silver after some set date. They are great collector's items though.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    I wonder if $20 mint condition is higher than inflation over the life of that note. Meaning, I wonder if even collector value kept up with currency devaluation attributable to monetary skullduggery.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    After the Lincoln Green back all federal paper is from the Federal Reserve bank.

    They for short time had time had to keep a deposit of silver that could be redeemed at any associated bank.

    Great find though an for 5 modern FRNs that was a steal. Good job.

    I don't remember the year but you could no longer redeem them for silver after some set date. They are great collector's items though.
    Well I've looked into it more, the Silver certificates that 1245A owns were redeemable in silver, not any more, BUT they are still legal tender, however if they filter back to a bank they will be taken out of circulation (destroyed)
    Those have Blue treasury seals. Mine have Red treasury seals and they WERE backed by gold but not redeemable from what I understand. Where as silver certiticates were issued to appease farmers and so they issued silver certs which were redeemable in silver.

    Yes I have numerous friends still working at the grocery store, and I told them i'll pay a bounty plus put cash in the store till if any blue or red realed bills come across the tills.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I wonder if $20 mint condition is higher than inflation over the life of that note. Meaning, I wonder if even collector value kept up with currency devaluation attributable to monetary skullduggery.
    Well with this inflation calculator It calculates a dollar in 1953 (when my snyder sig USNs were likely printed) as 8.62 in 2012 dollars. which means 2 dollars in 1953 would be worth 17.24 in todays dollars.

    A mint condition $2 series 1926G snyder signature... is selling for about 25 bucks.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    They were not backed by gold

    United States Notes are not and never have been backed by gold or silver. They started with Lincoln in 1862 and were the first Fiat currency in the U.S. (under the current constitution). They were limited in supply to a fixed amount. One way they differ from FRNs is that they may NOT be used by banks as a reserve in the fractional reserve lending scheme. The amount in circulation was fixed by law.

    Though they were not backed by gold or silver per se, up until 1964 anyone could trade them, or even FRNs for that matter at a bank for silver coinage. This is because from 1792 through 1964 all dimes, quarters, half dollars, and dollar coins were 90% silver.
    (I used 1792 because that was the year of the first coinage act, before then the coins in circulation were foreign, the most popular of which was the Spanish milled dollar also 90% silver.)
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    United States Notes are not and never have been backed by gold or silver. They started with Lincoln in 1862 and were the first Fiat currency in the U.S. (under the current constitution). They were limited in supply to a fixed amount. One way they differ from FRNs is that they may NOT be used by banks as a reserve in the fractional reserve lending scheme. The amount in circulation was fixed by law. Though they were not backed by gold or silver per se, up until 1964 anyone could trade them, or even FRNs for that matter at a bank for silver coinage. This is because from 1792 through 1964 all dimes, quarters, half dollars, and dollar coins were 90% silver. (I used 1792 because that was the year of the first coinage act, before then the coins in circulation were foreign, the most popular of which was the Spanish milled dollar also 90% silver.)
    Isn't this forum the coolest? Where else can you have knuckle-dragging open-carry gun nuts and somebody who knows history on currency? Hey, END, something has been bugging me for some time now. Can you tell me what the word milled means in relation to Spanish milled dollar?
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-06-2012 at 06:19 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Isn't this forum the coolest? Where else can you have knuckle-dragging open-carry gun nuts and somebody who knows history on currency? Hey, END, something has been bugging me for some time now. Can you tell me what the word milled means in relation to Spanish milled dollar?
    Milling is a process by which ridges or groves are cut into a coin. In the case of the Spanish milled dollar it referred to the way the coin was "pre-cut" with groves into eight pieces, commonly referred to as "bits". This gave the coin the nick name "pieces of eight". There were eight bits to a dollar hence the term "two bits" meaning 25 cents or a quarter dollar. This is also the reason why up until relatively recently stock prices were quoted in eights.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Milling is a process by which ridges or groves are cut into a coin. In the case of the Spanish milled dollar it referred to the way the coin was "pre-cut" with groves into eight pieces, commonly referred to as "bits". This gave the coin the nick name "pieces of eight". There were eight bits to a dollar hence the term "two bits" meaning 25 cents or a quarter dollar. This is also the reason why up until relatively recently stock prices were quoted in eights.
    Wrong.

    The milled part refers to the rough edge that was imprinted on the coin so people could tell that the coin had not been clipped or shaved.

    If you look at a modern quarter and dime they have a milled edge.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Well, thanks guys. Prior to asking, I had two possible meanings--created in a mill and milled edges. Now, I have a third: milled eighth marks.

    Y'all understand I'm now more confused and uncertain than before I asked?

    Being a gracious beggar, I'm gonna check out the milled eighth marks first.

    Then I'm gonna ignore both of you from now on.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Spanish silver piastres of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were called pieces of eight because they were marked with the number 8, as each was worth eight reals.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    I'm ignoring both of you, remember?

    Ohhh, I'm sooo confused now.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'm ignoring both of you, remember?

    Ohhh, I'm sooo confused now.

    lol.

    If you are interested in the monetary history of the United States I would highly recommend reading articles and watching videos by Dr. Edwin Vieira Jr. I have found them very informative.

    http://library.mises.org/books/Edwin...nstitution.pdf
    Last edited by END_THE_FED; 11-07-2012 at 06:55 AM.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    lol.

    If you are interested in the monetary history of the United States I would highly recommend reading articles and watching videos by Dr. Edwin Vieira Jr. I have found them very informative.

    http://library.mises.org/books/Edwin...nstitution.pdf

    And his book set "Pieces of Eight"
    http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Eight-M.../dp/0967175917
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    I don't own it yet, but hope to soon.

    The link I provided is an earlier and much shorter edition/version of that book.
    Last edited by END_THE_FED; 11-07-2012 at 03:25 PM.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Promo Spot: "Get your copy of Pieces of Eight for the low, low price of only 1,532 pieces of eight! Buy now!"


    Whoever got me interested in that book a few months ago is gonna pay for setting me up for that sticker shock. I think it was Freedom1Man that dun it.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-07-2012 at 07:17 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Promo Spot: "Get your copy of Pieces of Eight for the low, low price of only 1,532 pieces of eight! Buy now!"


    Whoever got me interested in that book a few months ago is gonna pay for setting me up for that sticker shock. I think it was Freedom1Man that dun it.
    Get started with the link I posted above. (post #15)
    It is an earlier edition of the same book. And it is free.

    The book started as a 30 page report. It was then released as a 300+ page book. The newest edition is 1700+ pages I believe.
    Last edited by END_THE_FED; 11-07-2012 at 09:33 PM.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Promo Spot: "Get your copy of Pieces of Eight for the low, low price of only 1,532 pieces of eight! Buy now!"


    Whoever got me interested in that book a few months ago is gonna pay for setting me up for that sticker shock. I think it was Freedom1Man that dun it.
    It likely was me.

    The re-print price shocked me but it's lower than the 600 I found it listed for before the re-print.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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