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Thread: Ohio - OC question

  1. #1
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    Ohio - OC question

    Hello,

    I am curious, can you open carry to state/local buildings in Ohio? There is so much confusion around everything it is hard to get a straight answer. I've seen people walk into police stations, and non-federal buildings with OC but I want to clarify before I go.

    For example, when you go to vote at a local govt building, would I have to leave my gun at home? Could I go to any state/local building since it is not federal and openly carry?

    This is in ohio. Any input from people who live or know about ohio law would be greatly appreciated!

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    Search is your friend

    Discussion here:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Carry-is-Legal

    and library focused, but a bit about gummint buildings...Post #7 asks the same question...

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...o-Weapon-signs

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockowner View Post
    Discussion here:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Carry-is-Legal

    and library focused, but a bit about gummint buildings...Post #7 asks the same question...

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...o-Weapon-signs
    The second link is broken. Could you repost?

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    thank you

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    So what police station did you see someone OC into?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    So what police station did you see someone OC into?
    I've been watching a lot of OC/CCW/Harassment videos on youtube, and I noticed a particularly weird group of activists out of New Hampshire show a man meeting with police and he walks in with a massive revolver on his hip. They didn't mind it at all, he even walks up to the window and asks to speak with an officer.


    I know this isn't in our state, but it seems that a police station is acceptable? I will dig more and confirm.

    I just would like to see what is expressly prohibited to carry (OC or CCW) in the form of gov't buildings. Our local polling location is adjoined to a part-time Mayor's Court so I am hesitant to bring my OC with me in fear of violating the courthouse federal laws.

    Can someone cite any of the never-allowed-place-under-any-circumstances?

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    Activist Member N605TW's Avatar
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    Re: Ohio - OC question

    In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.

    Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N605TW View Post
    In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.
    Incorrect. But anyway, what are you relying on to come to that conclusion? I know it cannot be statutory law or common law. Neither states that in general.

    Ohio law does say there are five places you can't carry, open or concealed.

    State mental hospitals. There are only seven in Ohio.
    Schools, as well as the property owned by a school board.
    Courthouses.
    Bars. Unless you have a CCL and are not drinking.
    Jails or prisons.
    Police stations. But, only if they have a state approved holding cell. There is some question as to what constitutes the holding cell/jail.

    The state actually only controls concealed carry.

    ORC 9.68 makes that pretty clear.

    And before you take me apart you better have good law to support your position, not conjecture.
    Last edited by color of law; 11-06-2012 at 08:29 PM.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N605TW View Post
    In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.
    That's only for a CHL holder with a concealed handgun. See http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126 section (B)(9).


    So, when I went to the Dining Lodge at Hocking Hills State Park last week, I ignored the "No Guns" sign because I was open carrying.
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    Activist Member N605TW's Avatar
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    Re: Ohio - OC question

    I am under the impression that gun buster signs apply to open and concealed carry.

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    Last edited by N605TW; 11-07-2012 at 04:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N605TW View Post
    I am under the impression that gun buster signs apply to open and concealed carry.

    Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2
    For government entities the law contradicts itself. Well, not really contradicts but leaves alot out. The signs posted by government buildings are spelled out in the ORC. 2923.1212 spells out which government entities (and a few others) must post the signs and what they must say. However, there is no violation associated directly with 2923.1212 as that is pretty much a government only directive.

    2923.126(B) lists the same places listed in 2923.1212 as violations. However, it says.....

    A valid license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

    Notice it says "concealed handgun." Therefore open carry is not prohibited and there is no violation mentioned anywhere in the ORC for violating any of the places listed in 2323.1212 or 2923.126(B) if you are doing it in an open carry manner.

    However, I don't know anyone that's had the stones to test it yet. I think they would win the court battle, but not the ride.

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    You have to define 'testing', also. Just because I OC'd into a building at a state park doesn't make it a 'test'. There were no park rangers there to proctor such a test.

    The way our laws are written, there is nothing illegal about OC'ing into a building at, for example, the Ohio State University. That is a 'test' I have offered to take if someone else will cover my legal expenses.

    As I've mentioned before, you CANNOT be afraid of being arrested if you are going to open carry. If you can't afford a few days away from work and family, don't open carry.

    A family member was once arrested late in the evening on a Thursday, too late to be put on the arraignment schedule for Friday morning. Monday was a holiday. He sat in lockup for four and a half days just to be released on his own recognizance.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    You have to define 'testing', also. Just because I OC'd into a building at a state park doesn't make it a 'test'.
    Where is your cite? Without a cite, it hasn't been tested.

    I couldn't help myself......I've been waiting for that opportunity...I love you man...

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Originally Posted by N605TW
    In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.
    Incorrect. But anyway, what are you relying on to come to that conclusion? I know it cannot be statutory law or common law. Neither states that in general.
    * * *
    And before you take me apart you better have good law to support your position, not conjecture.
    Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code, no person shall knowingly possess, have under the person's control, convey, or attempt to convey a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance onto these premises.
    A sign with those words must by posted by "[t]he officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state." R.C. 2923.1212(A)(9).

    Although that section has no penalty provision, the presence of that sign, as mandated by statute, provides sufficient notice to charge someone who violates the terms of that signage with Criminal Trespass under R.C. 2911.21(A)(2):

    No person, without privilege to do so, shall *** [k]nowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard.
    Feel free to test that proposition. Carry plenty of bail money.

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    The signs posted under authority of R.C. 2923.1212 pertain to concealed handguns as per the title of that section. Yes, I know it may take an appellate court to consider legislative intent, but that law did not exist prior to our concealed carry laws, was created as part of our concealed carry laws, and specifies "concealed" in the title.

    For a law pertaining to concealed carry to restrict open carry would conflict with the basis used to decide Klein v. Leis.

    R.C. 9.68 prohibits restrictions on open carry NOT in state or federal law.

    Does that not give one privilege, thus negating any charge under R.C. 2911.21?

    If it does not, then the wording for the signage as written in R.C. 2923.1212(A) is unconstitutional.

    IMHO. IANAL.
    Last edited by MyWifeSaidYes; 11-08-2012 at 04:01 AM.
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    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    The signs posted under authority of R.C. 2923.1212 pertain to concealed handguns as per the title of that section. Yes, I know it may take an appellate court to consider legislative intent, but that law did not exist prior to our concealed carry laws, was created as part of our concealed carry laws, and specifies "concealed" in the title.
    The caption of a statutory code section is a convenient reference added by the publisher. It is not part of the original act as enrolled by the Ohio General Assembly. See 2008 Am.Sub.S.B. No. 184. Therefore, it has no effect on determining legislative intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    For a law pertaining to concealed carry to restrict open carry would conflict with the basis used to decide Klein v. Leis.

    R.C. 9.68 prohibits restrictions on open carry NOT in state or federal law.
    1. The scope of R.C. 9.68 covers both open and concealed carry equally: "The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition." R.C. 9.68(C)(1). It does not differentiate between the two.
    2. The preemptive scope of R.C. 9.68 is self-limiting: "Except as specifically provided by *** state law ..." R.C. 2923.1212 is a state statute duly enacted by the Ohio General Assembly (see above), and thus, constitutes an exception to the preemptive scope of R.C. 9.68.
    3. State laws pertaining to concealed carry, such as the issuance of a concealed handgun license, can and do restrict open carry. Please note that one may not openly carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless one has been issued a concealed handgun license (R.C. 2923.16), nor may one openly carry a handgun into a D permit liquor premises unless one has been issued a concealed handgun license (R.C. 2923.121).
    4. Klein v. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537, 2003-Ohio-4779, 795 N.E.2d 633, established only that R.C. 2923.12, as it existed prior to the issuance of concealed handgun licenses, did "not unconstitutionally infringe the right to bear arms" because "there is no constitutional right to bear concealed weapons." It did nothing to establish the proposition that the right to openly carry firearms is absolute. In fact, that precedent included several statements of law to the contrary. "It is fundamental that a court must 'presume the constitutionality of lawfully enacted legislation.'" (Citations omitted.) Id., at 538, 4. "In Ohio, the right to bear arms is fundamental and is also subject to limitations." Id., at 539, 8. If anything, that precedent supports the constitutional validity of R.C. 2923.1212.


    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    Does that not give one privilege, thus negating any charge under R.C. 2911.21?

    If it does not, then the wording for the signage as written in R.C. 2923.1212(A) is unconstitutional.
    I can insist that the failure of the State of Ohio to protect purple unicorns as an endangered species is unconstitutional. That doesn't make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    IMHO. IANAL.
    Exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theswissartist View Post
    I've been watching a lot of OC/CCW/Harassment videos on youtube, and I noticed a particularly weird group of activists out of New Hampshire show a man meeting with police and he walks in with a massive revolver on his hip. They didn't mind it at all, he even walks up to the window and asks to speak with an officer.


    I know this isn't in our state, but it seems that a police station is acceptable? I will dig more and confirm.

    I just would like to see what is expressly prohibited to carry (OC or CCW) in the form of gov't buildings. Our local polling location is adjoined to a part-time Mayor's Court so I am hesitant to bring my OC with me in fear of violating the courthouse federal laws.

    Can someone cite any of the never-allowed-place-under-any-circumstances?
    In many states it is legal to OC & CC in police stations - state law prevails.
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    Even the final Bill Analysis of 2004 Am. Sub. H.B. No. 12 seems to indicate that the signage is supposed to limit concealed carry:

    Posting of signs in specified areas

    Requires specified persons, boards, and entities with control over certain locations at which a licensee with a standard license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun is not authorized to carry a concealed handgun, to post warnings to that effect.
    Oh, well.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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