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Ohio - OC question

theswissartist

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
10
Location
NE Ohio
Hello,

I am curious, can you open carry to state/local buildings in Ohio? There is so much confusion around everything it is hard to get a straight answer. I've seen people walk into police stations, and non-federal buildings with OC but I want to clarify before I go.

For example, when you go to vote at a local govt building, would I have to leave my gun at home? Could I go to any state/local building since it is not federal and openly carry?

This is in ohio. Any input from people who live or know about ohio law would be greatly appreciated!
 

theswissartist

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
10
Location
NE Ohio
So what police station did you see someone OC into?

I've been watching a lot of OC/CCW/Harassment videos on youtube, and I noticed a particularly weird group of activists out of New Hampshire show a man meeting with police and he walks in with a massive revolver on his hip. They didn't mind it at all, he even walks up to the window and asks to speak with an officer.


I know this isn't in our state, but it seems that a police station is acceptable? I will dig more and confirm.

I just would like to see what is expressly prohibited to carry (OC or CCW) in the form of gov't buildings. Our local polling location is adjoined to a part-time Mayor's Court so I am hesitant to bring my OC with me in fear of violating the courthouse federal laws.

Can someone cite any of the never-allowed-place-under-any-circumstances?
 

N605TW

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Columbus, Ohio
In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.
Incorrect. But anyway, what are you relying on to come to that conclusion? I know it cannot be statutory law or common law. Neither states that in general.

Ohio law does say there are five places you can't carry, open or concealed.

State mental hospitals. There are only seven in Ohio.
Schools, as well as the property owned by a school board.
Courthouses.
Bars. Unless you have a CCL and are not drinking.
Jails or prisons.
Police stations. But, only if they have a state approved holding cell. There is some question as to what constitutes the holding cell/jail.

The state actually only controls concealed carry.

ORC 9.68 makes that pretty clear.

And before you take me apart you better have good law to support your position, not conjecture.
 
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MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.

That's only for a CHL holder with a concealed handgun. See http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126 section (B)(9).


So, when I went to the Dining Lodge at Hocking Hills State Park last week, I ignored the "No Guns" sign because I was open carrying.
 

N605TW

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I am under the impression that gun buster signs apply to open and concealed carry.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
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JediSkipdogg

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
139
Location
Batavia
I am under the impression that gun buster signs apply to open and concealed carry.

Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2

For government entities the law contradicts itself. Well, not really contradicts but leaves alot out. The signs posted by government buildings are spelled out in the ORC. 2923.1212 spells out which government entities (and a few others) must post the signs and what they must say. However, there is no violation associated directly with 2923.1212 as that is pretty much a government only directive.

2923.126(B) lists the same places listed in 2923.1212 as violations. However, it says.....

A valid license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

Notice it says "concealed handgun." Therefore open carry is not prohibited and there is no violation mentioned anywhere in the ORC for violating any of the places listed in 2323.1212 or 2923.126(B) if you are doing it in an open carry manner.

However, I don't know anyone that's had the stones to test it yet. I think they would win the court battle, but not the ride.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
You have to define 'testing', also. Just because I OC'd into a building at a state park doesn't make it a 'test'. There were no park rangers there to proctor such a test.

The way our laws are written, there is nothing illegal about OC'ing into a building at, for example, the Ohio State University. That is a 'test' I have offered to take if someone else will cover my legal expenses.

As I've mentioned before, you CANNOT be afraid of being arrested if you are going to open carry. If you can't afford a few days away from work and family, don't open carry.

A family member was once arrested late in the evening on a Thursday, too late to be put on the arraignment schedule for Friday morning. Monday was a holiday. He sat in lockup for four and a half days just to be released on his own recognizance.
 

glockowner

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
17
Location
Ohio
You have to define 'testing', also. Just because I OC'd into a building at a state park doesn't make it a 'test'.

Where is your cite? Without a cite, it hasn't been tested. :banana:

I couldn't help myself...:cool:...I've been waiting for that opportunity...I love you man...
 

Werz

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
301
Location
Northeast Ohio
Originally Posted by N605TW
In ohio one can not enter a government building armed. You may enter bathrooms at rest area and you may use the shelters in parks.
Incorrect. But anyway, what are you relying on to come to that conclusion? I know it cannot be statutory law or common law. Neither states that in general.
* * *
And before you take me apart you better have good law to support your position, not conjecture.
Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code, no person shall knowingly possess, have under the person's control, convey, or attempt to convey a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance onto these premises.
A sign with those words must by posted by "[t]he officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state." R.C. 2923.1212(A)(9).

Although that section has no penalty provision, the presence of that sign, as mandated by statute, provides sufficient notice to charge someone who violates the terms of that signage with Criminal Trespass under R.C. 2911.21(A)(2):

No person, without privilege to do so, shall *** [k]nowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is reckless in that regard.

Feel free to test that proposition. Carry plenty of bail money.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
The signs posted under authority of R.C. 2923.1212 pertain to concealed handguns as per the title of that section. Yes, I know it may take an appellate court to consider legislative intent, but that law did not exist prior to our concealed carry laws, was created as part of our concealed carry laws, and specifies "concealed" in the title.

For a law pertaining to concealed carry to restrict open carry would conflict with the basis used to decide Klein v. Leis.

R.C. 9.68 prohibits restrictions on open carry NOT in state or federal law.

Does that not give one privilege, thus negating any charge under R.C. 2911.21?

If it does not, then the wording for the signage as written in R.C. 2923.1212(A) is unconstitutional.

IMHO. IANAL.
 
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Werz

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
301
Location
Northeast Ohio
The signs posted under authority of R.C. 2923.1212 pertain to concealed handguns as per the title of that section. Yes, I know it may take an appellate court to consider legislative intent, but that law did not exist prior to our concealed carry laws, was created as part of our concealed carry laws, and specifies "concealed" in the title.
The caption of a statutory code section is a convenient reference added by the publisher. It is not part of the original act as enrolled by the Ohio General Assembly. See 2008 Am.Sub.S.B. No. 184. Therefore, it has no effect on determining legislative intent.

For a law pertaining to concealed carry to restrict open carry would conflict with the basis used to decide Klein v. Leis.

R.C. 9.68 prohibits restrictions on open carry NOT in state or federal law.
  1. The scope of R.C. 9.68 covers both open and concealed carry equally: "The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition." R.C. 9.68(C)(1). It does not differentiate between the two.
  2. The preemptive scope of R.C. 9.68 is self-limiting: "Except as specifically provided by *** state law ..." R.C. 2923.1212 is a state statute duly enacted by the Ohio General Assembly (see above), and thus, constitutes an exception to the preemptive scope of R.C. 9.68.
  3. State laws pertaining to concealed carry, such as the issuance of a concealed handgun license, can and do restrict open carry. Please note that one may not openly carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless one has been issued a concealed handgun license (R.C. 2923.16), nor may one openly carry a handgun into a D permit liquor premises unless one has been issued a concealed handgun license (R.C. 2923.121).
  4. Klein v. Leis, 99 Ohio St.3d 537, 2003-Ohio-4779, 795 N.E.2d 633, established only that R.C. 2923.12, as it existed prior to the issuance of concealed handgun licenses, did "not unconstitutionally infringe the right to bear arms" because "there is no constitutional right to bear concealed weapons." It did nothing to establish the proposition that the right to openly carry firearms is absolute. In fact, that precedent included several statements of law to the contrary. "It is fundamental that a court must 'presume the constitutionality of lawfully enacted legislation.'" (Citations omitted.) Id., at 538, ¶4. "In Ohio, the right to bear arms is fundamental and is also subject to limitations." Id., at 539, ¶8. If anything, that precedent supports the constitutional validity of R.C. 2923.1212.

Does that not give one privilege, thus negating any charge under R.C. 2911.21?

If it does not, then the wording for the signage as written in R.C. 2923.1212(A) is unconstitutional.
I can insist that the failure of the State of Ohio to protect purple unicorns as an endangered species is unconstitutional. That doesn't make it so.

IMHO. IANAL.
Exactly.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I've been watching a lot of OC/CCW/Harassment videos on youtube, and I noticed a particularly weird group of activists out of New Hampshire show a man meeting with police and he walks in with a massive revolver on his hip. They didn't mind it at all, he even walks up to the window and asks to speak with an officer.


I know this isn't in our state, but it seems that a police station is acceptable? I will dig more and confirm.

I just would like to see what is expressly prohibited to carry (OC or CCW) in the form of gov't buildings. Our local polling location is adjoined to a part-time Mayor's Court so I am hesitant to bring my OC with me in fear of violating the courthouse federal laws.

Can someone cite any of the never-allowed-place-under-any-circumstances?

In many states it is legal to OC & CC in police stations - state law prevails.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Even the final Bill Analysis of 2004 Am. Sub. H.B. No. 12 seems to indicate that the signage is supposed to limit concealed carry:

Posting of signs in specified areas

Requires specified persons, boards, and entities with control over certain locations at which a licensee with a standard license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun is not authorized to carry a concealed handgun, to post warnings to that effect.

Oh, well.
 
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