Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: OCer denied entrance to polling location in Muncie

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321

    OCer denied entrance to polling location in Muncie

    From the Facebook status of Guy A. Relford (firearms attorney extraordinaire):

    "I just got a call from a voter in Muncie who was turned away from the polls because he was lawfully carrying a handgun. The poll inspector tried to tell him that carrying a gun into the poll was "voter intimidation."

    Sigh. So much ignorance - so little time."

    https://www.facebook.com/guy.relford
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 11-06-2012 at 11:20 AM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  2. #2
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    From the Facebook status of Guy A. Relford (firearms attorney extraordinaire):

    "I just got a call from a voter in Muncie who was turned away from the polls because he was lawfully carrying a handgun. The poll inspector tried to tell him that carrying a gun into the poll was "voter intimidation."

    Sigh. So much ignorance - so little time."

    https://www.facebook.com/guy.relford
    In Michigan that poll inspector would have committed a crime. I would assume Indiana has similar laws.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    yes, indiana does as well
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    19
    I voted with a concealed hand gun, as many of my friends do the same. I think the pole keepers would be surprised if they knew how many guns are carried to vote

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543

    OCer denied entrance to polling location in Muncie

    Anybody know what the OCer ended up doing?

    I OCed at the polls while working for my county as an election official.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    8
    I took my gun to my truck (not wanting to waste my day arguing with ignorance) and then voted. At that point I went home and called Guy (lawyer quoted above) and he sent me a link to print off and take back to the voting official. I returned to my polling station and handed the voting official a copy of an article that quotes the Indiana Secretary of State...

    "Indiana Secretary of State Connie Lawson says the law is clear: Unless the polling place falls under the few exemptions in the law, legal gun owners have the right to openly bear their arms while they vote. “That matter has been settled,” Lawson said.

    I also handed her a printout of IC 35-47-11.1 and explained to her that she had violated my rights. she said she was sorry and it gave me some satisfaction. hopefully it wont be an issue again. I am also writing a letter to the county voting commission to make sure they also know the law. I think I will forgo the lawsuit for now but if it happens again I will have no choice.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543

    OCer denied entrance to polling location in Muncie

    Quote Originally Posted by oc1911 View Post
    I took my gun to my truck (not wanting to waste my day arguing with ignorance) and then voted. At that point I went home and called Guy (lawyer quoted above) and he sent me a link to print off and take back to the voting official. I returned to my polling station and handed the voting official a copy of an article that quotes the Indiana Secretary of State...

    "Indiana Secretary of State Connie Lawson says the law is clear: Unless the polling place falls under the few exemptions in the law, legal gun owners have the right to openly bear their arms while they vote. “That matter has been settled,” Lawson said.

    I also handed her a printout of IC 35-47-11.1 and explained to her that she had violated my rights. she said she was sorry and it gave me some satisfaction. hopefully it wont be an issue again. I am also writing a letter to the county voting commission to make sure they also know the law. I think I will forgo the lawsuit for now but if it happens again I will have no choice.
    Thanks for the update. I think you handled the situation really well. I would love to know the outcome of your letter to the voting commision.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    8
    I'll keep you posted. Not really expecting a response, but I hope I get one.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    nw indiana
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by coyote223 View Post
    I voted with a concealed hand gun, as many of my friends do the same. I think the pole keepers would be surprised if they knew how many guns are carried to vote
    EXACTLY!!!...least this person is smart enough to know what to do,,,there was no reason to go in there open carrying.
    like kenny rogers in the gambler says "you got to know when to hold em,know when to fold em"
    ...is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    ...i personaly like to carry,and when people do this,they just set others up to take the fall with them.
    wrong or right.....its just NOT WORTH IT
    conceal carry in this instance,,,,no problems

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543

    OCer denied entrance to polling location in Muncie

    Quote Originally Posted by crambone219 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!...least this person is smart enough to know what to do,,,there was no reason to go in there open carrying.
    like kenny rogers in the gambler says "you got to know when to hold em,know when to fold em"
    ...is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    ...i personaly like to carry,and when people do this,they just set others up to take the fall with them.
    wrong or right.....its just NOT WORTH IT
    conceal carry in this instance,,,,no problems
    Why should doing something that you are legally allowed to do cause a confrontation? I carry wherever it is legal. Some folks may like it, some folks may not. Some folks may also like the shirt I am wearing and some folks may not. You can't please everyone.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by crambone219 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!...least this person is smart enough to know what to do,,,there was no reason to go in there open carrying.
    like kenny rogers in the gambler says "you got to know when to hold em,know when to fold em"
    ...is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    ...i personaly like to carry,and when people do this,they just set others up to take the fall with them.
    wrong or right.....its just NOT WORTH IT
    conceal carry in this instance,,,,no problems
    Seriously?

    This was in Indiana; there was probably no real reason to vote, either.

    But is that really the point?

    Many who openly carry do NOT do so for the expressed purpose of making a statement of any kind. I open carry because it is the most comfortable way to carry my sidearm. Granted, it may not be as unusual in NV as it is in IN, but it is just as legal, and its being unusual in some places is because of people like you thinking the only reason to do it is to make a statement, and that we should just be covering it up so ignorami don't piss themselves when they see it on someone other than a uniformed security guard (check out their qualifications some day).

    So a guy who NORMALLY openly carries should be expected to do something abnormal or uncomfortable to placate someone when he votes? He has gone from doing nothing wrong to being the victim of voter intimidation! Even if he doesn't normally OC, but chose to do so while at the polls, he is STILL fully within his rights! I hope you are consistent and give your opinion to people getting tattoos, also. After all, they intimidate even more people when mixed with the general public, and, again, it is usually the ignorance of the intimidated, not the canvas.

    People fear a hidden gun more than they fear just a gun. Someone who normally openly carries is probably not set up for proper concealed carry at a moment's notice. Let's assume his concealed gun now gets seen. Which is worse for a sheep? To see an openly carried sidearm? Or to see some random-looking guy that looks uncomfortable and then you notice he has a gun stuck in his pants (yes, even with a holster).

    Proper concealed carry requires specific dressing requirements. Rarely can one go from OC to proper CC on a moment's notice. And not doing CC properly is far worse to people like you, than just mere OC. But then again, there's nothing wrong with OC anyway!!!
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-17-2012 at 11:21 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by crambone219 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!...least this person is smart enough to know what to do,,,there was no reason to go in there open carrying.
    like kenny rogers in the gambler says "you got to know when to hold em,know when to fold em"
    ...is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    ...i personaly like to carry,and when people do this,they just set others up to take the fall with them.
    wrong or right.....its just NOT WORTH IT
    conceal carry in this instance,,,,no problems
    Your ignorance is astounding. We are talking about the law, not your opinion. When the Indiana Secretary of State releases a statement about the new law saying "the law is clear, and this matter has been settled", it is unquestionably legal, and what happened was a violation of rights. Lets take your theory... That would be the same as me telling you that you have the right to free speech, but you shouldn't talk about (guns, god, abortion, etc.) because your are ASKING for trouble. Stand up for your rights. Quit backing down and appeasing the people who would like to see your rights taken away. Our gun rights (and others) have been slowly chipped away starting around the time of Prohibition. If you chose to CC then I applaud you for exercising your 2nd amendment rights, but if you choose to OC in a legal manner then you should be able to do so without being hassled by the uneducated and uncomfortable. But I'm just a redneck who isn't smart enough to know any better, sorry.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by crambone219
    is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    And yet he/she/it comes onto a discussion board dedicated to open carry & throws out lots of opinions saying that people are wrong to do so.
    Take your own advice, please, whoever you are.

    BTW, in general OC does not cause problems. In fact, it's practically always not the LAC who causes a problem when one happens. And if police calltakers could be taught to ask "what crime do you think this person is committing?" when they get a MWAG call, there would be even less trouble because police wouldn't be tempted to think they had to do something just 'cause they're there.

    Most people don't notice, & most of those who do aren't upset. I have video on YouTube of me OC various places around MKE (including a bank) and absolutely nothing happens that shouldn't.
    But in any case, what would be wrong about carrying as a political statement?
    Is there a problem with exercising too many civil rights at once?
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    IN
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by crambone219 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!...least this person is smart enough to know what to do,,,there was no reason to go in there open carrying.
    like kenny rogers in the gambler says "you got to know when to hold em,know when to fold em"
    ...is everyone goes around KNOWING what there doing is going to cause confrontation ....maby they should avoid it???
    ...i personaly like to carry,and when people do this,they just set others up to take the fall with them.
    wrong or right.....its just NOT WORTH IT
    conceal carry in this instance,,,,no problems
    Hell I OCed when I voted this year and not a care was given. Atleast they knew how I was going to vote.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Deadjester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    3
    another thought...if more people OC'd then there might be less fear and misinformation. i've decided i will no longer CC unless politely asked by a LEO or business i'm in to cover it up and even then i'll probably just leave that biz.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadjester View Post
    another thought...if more people OC'd then there might be less fear and misinformation. i've decided i will no longer CC unless politely asked by a LEO or business i'm in to cover it up and even then i'll probably just leave that biz.
    Welcome to OCDO!

    While a business owner/manager can certainly make that request (and then you can decide whether or not they keep your business) a LEO never has the authority to do so. Please consider being prepared to tell him, politely, no.

    Depending on his demeanor (some of them are truly just ignorant and following a "procedure" to talk to you about it), maybe try humor: "I will if you will..."
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-16-2013 at 03:51 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  17. #17
    Regular Member Deadjester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Welcome to OCDO!

    While a business owner/manager can certainly make that request (and then you can decide whether or not they keep your business) a LEO never has the authority to do so. Please consider being prepared to tell him, politely, no.

    Depending on his demeanor (some of them are truly just ignorant and following a "procedure" to talk to you about it), maybe try humor: "I will if you will..."
    thanks for the welcome Mac, and yes i agree, but i would only do so if he politely asked...and i have told them no, had a leo (looked fresh out of academy) tell me " cover that up or i'll arrest you"...to which i replied, ok...what's for lunch at lockup?" the LEO superv. showed up and apologized profusely...about 3 mo. later i found out that guy is no longer employed there. I have no problem telling them no, but most likely i'll just leave, and not patronize that biz again. (of course sending the proper email or phone call to the owner letting them know why i will no longer patronize their place.)

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadjester View Post
    ...had a leo (looked fresh out of academy) tell me " cover that up or i'll arrest you"...to which i replied, ok...what's for lunch at lockup?"...
    Win!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    South Bend, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    260
    Read MLK Jr's Letter from Birmingham Jail re: politeness in violating civil rights.


    A polite officer's opinion that "you should cover that up" is simply an opportunity for a polite refusal. "No, thank you."

  20. #20
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadjester View Post
    another thought...if more people OC'd then there might be less fear and misinformation.
    I think OC at the polls worked in this instance - next time he votes the precinct judge and this worker will know that OC is allowed. And they have been informed with it so noted in the record of the letter sent to the county. You are gradually pushing out awareness of rights to OC into more and more places of what Mark Levin calls the 'civil society'.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •