Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Leaving firearm in car at airport

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3

    Leaving firearm in car at airport

    I work at an airport. Am I legally allowed to lock my firearm in my car while at work? The TSA has a federal checkpoint at the airport which conducts homeland security activities. We park in a garage on airport/county property.

    790.251
    7) EXCEPTIONS.—The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not apply to:
    (a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s. 790.115.
    (b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47 or chapter 957.
    (c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located.
    (d) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
    (e) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such property.
    (f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer.
    (g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of this state.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by seminole425 View Post
    I work at an airport. Am I legally allowed to lock my firearm in my car while at work? The TSA has a federal checkpoint at the airport which conducts homeland security activities. We park in a garage on airport/county property.

    790.251
    7) EXCEPTIONS.—The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not apply to:
    (a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s. 790.115.
    (b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47 or chapter 957.
    (c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located.
    (d) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
    (e) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such property.
    (f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer.
    (g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of this state.
    790.251 has absolutely nothing to do with the legality of a firearm anywhere in Florida! It is simply statutory protection for employees from civil rights violations (firearms) from employers regarding keeping one in your car on their property.

    The statute you need to understand is 790.25, sections 3 and 5.
    790.25(3)(n) permits an employee to lawfully carry a firearm either openly or concealed (with or without a license) on your person while at work - employer permission not required. Of course Federal regulations prohibit you from carrying past the checkpoints.

    790.25(5) allows a person without a license to carry (store) a concealed firearm in their vehicle if it is in a closed glove box, console, backpack, purse or other container with a lid/cover that must be removed to gain access to the firearm.

    They may be able to fire you for it (if they somehow become aware of it) depending on the legal definition of 'aerospace', but it is absolutely legal to keep it in your car if you do not enter the SIDA.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 11-06-2012 at 03:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    32
    The statute you need to understand is 790.25, sections 3 and 5.
    790.25(3)(n) permits an employee to lawfully carry a firearm either openly or concealed (with or without a license) on your person while at work - employer permission not required.
    This is grossly inaccurate. Following this advice could lead to serious legal (and employment) issues. The section actually reads:

    (n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
    A person's "place of business" means a business owned by that person. It does not simply mean "place of employment".

    OP, I cannot comment on your specific situation with any true knowledge, but it certainly reads as though airports are off-limits (other than general-aviation fields that do not see TSA operational activity.) The key factor is whether or not the screening of thousands of passengers and their luggage each day for the purpose of "homeland security" constitutes "substantial activities." My guess is there are people in high places that say it does.
    Last edited by MedWheeler; 12-05-2012 at 11:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
    This is grossly inaccurate. Following this advice could lead to serious legal (and employment) issues. The section actually reads:

    (n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;
    A person's "place of business" means a business owned by that person. It does not simply mean "place of employment".

    OP, I cannot comment on your specific situation with any true knowledge, but it certainly reads as though airports are off-limits (other than general-aviation fields that do not see TSA operational activity.) The key factor is whether or not the screening of thousands of passengers and their luggage each day for the purpose of "homeland security" constitutes "substantial activities." My guess is there are people in high places that say it does.
    Wrong again.

    Brook v. State, 999 So. 2d 1093 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2009
    We agree with our sister court in Commons that the "place of business" language of subsection (3)(n) is simple and straight-forward. Courts must give statutory language its plain and ordinary meaning and cannot add words which were not placed there by the Legislature.
    . . .
    The Legislature could not have intended a result so inconsistent with its Declaration of Policy in Section 790.25(1), the Exceptions to said Section in Section 790.25(3)(n), and the Construction in Section 790.25(4). We must, therefore, reverse the verdict of the trial court and find that defendant not guilty of a violation of Florida Statute 790.01
    . . .
    We are bound by the clear wording of the statute. The defendant's conduct fell within the ambit of the exemption contained in subsection 790.25(3)(n)
    Last edited by notalawyer; 12-06-2012 at 09:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    32
    Duly noted. But, before you keep throwing around the phrase "employer permission not required", keep the passage at the end of the ruling in mind. It appears below. Then, further clarify what you mean by the use of that phrase. As you wrote it, you imply that the law says if your employer tells you he forbids carry, you can tell him to pound sand. That's not the case here.

    We emphasize that this is not a case where there is evidence that the defendant carried the firearm in contravention of his employer's express policy or directive. We express no opinion on that hypothetical situation.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by MedWheeler View Post
    Duly noted. But, before you keep throwing around the phrase "employer permission not required", keep the passage at the end of the ruling in mind. It appears below. Then, further clarify what you mean by the use of that phrase. As you wrote it, you imply that the law says if your employer tells you he forbids carry, you can tell him to pound sand. That's not the case here.
    We emphasize that this is not a case where there is evidence that the defendant carried the firearm in contravention of his employer's express policy or directive. We express no opinion on that hypothetical situation.
    Except for the fact that permission is, in fact, not required, notwithstanding the court's ill-advised editorial.

    No violation of 790.06 (or 790.01) could possibly occur in this situation. The language in 790.25(3) is clear and unambitious.

    The court could only be hinting to a possible trespassing charge, analogous to a 'No Firearms' sign. But then again Florida's trespassing statutes are very clear and very detailed and no such signs (or employer policy) could possibly be (and in decades of jurisprudence, have never been) construed to legally prohibit an individual form carrying a firearm in contravention thereof.



    ETA: Just a point of clarification, not that it matters in this discussion, but "permission" (express or implied) is different from an "express policy or directive" prohibiting something.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 12-07-2012 at 09:44 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
    Posts
    466
    OK, a strictly 100% hypothetical situation to helpfully clarify what this discussion is becoming.....

    I am the franchise owner of the local McDonald's on Main street.

    1. As the owner "of my business", and absent any corporate fiats against it, I may carry a weapon on my person, concealed or openly, with no problems, at my place of business.

    2. As the fry cook of said business, I may also carry, assuming corporate rules don't expressly forbid it, concealed or openly.


    When I first read the appropriate statutes, I ASSUMED that the owner of said business was whom this pertained to, not necessarily the random employee unless specified by the owner.

    Would this be a good assesment of the situation?

    AD
    NRA Life - AMA Life - ABATE Life
    Viet-Nam Helicopters Pilots Assn - Life
    IDPA, ICORE and USPSA carry gun shooter - Glock Armorer
    NRA Certified Instructor

  8. #8
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    OK, a strictly 100% hypothetical situation to helpfully clarify what this discussion is becoming.....

    I am the franchise owner of the local McDonald's on Main street.

    1. As the owner "of my business", and absent any corporate fiats against it, I may carry a weapon on my person, concealed or openly, with no problems, at my place of business.

    2. As the fry cook of said business, I may also carry, assuming corporate rules don't expressly forbid it, concealed or openly.


    When I first read the appropriate statutes, I ASSUMED that the owner of said business was whom this pertained to, not necessarily the random employee unless specified by the owner.

    Would this be a good assesment of the situation?

    AD
    You are correct, AD. 'Place of business' for the purposes of this section, makes no distinction between the business' owner and the employees who work there. Your place of business is where you work. This is a matter of settle law, as notalawyer indicates above.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    771
    upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
    Think it matters that TSA only controls behind the checkpoints...not the entire airport?

    790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—

    (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
    3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
    4. Any courthouse;
    5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
    6. Any polling place;
    7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
    8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
    9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
    10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
    11. Any career center;
    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
    13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
    14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
    15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
    (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.
    (c) This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).
    (d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    (13) All moneys collected by the department pursuant to this section shall be deposited i
    States don’t have rights. People do.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,095
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Think it matters that TSA only controls behind the checkpoints...not the entire airport?
    Federal law only restricts firearms carry/possession within the secure areas of airports.

    And, again 790.251 does not talk about when, where, or how someone may legally carry/keep a firearm, at all. It simply provides protection from termination (or other employment related issues) for employees that keep a firearm in their car on their employee's property (with noted exceptions).

    The only state law that prohibits carry at airports is the law that covers licensed concealed carry and that law does not apply to someone carrying at work (or home, hunting, fishing, the range, etc.) Nor does it apply to individuals without a CWFL.

    Same as a bartender being able to carry while serving drinks, or a secretary carrying while on the job in a police station, etc.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •