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Thread: Drive-by Shooting Two Nights Ago, At The House

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Drive-by Shooting Two Nights Ago, At The House

    I live at a four unit house, on a main street. Five or six shots went off, I ran downstairs, three of the kids were asleep, and one of the kids was awake, looked out the window, and seen the perp, and the car.

    Neighbor's friend got shot in the arm. There were a couple of spent rounds, intact, on the ground, looked like 357, sounded like a magnum.

    I have been a bit on high alert these past two days. A couple of weeks ago, it was on the news, we had a house fire bombed, next to us, two nights in a row, the second night the house went up in flames.

    I used to always carry, even in the house. This past year I haven't been carrying in the house. Now I'm back to carrying in the house again.

    Seems like all hell is breaking loose in the Central District, here.

    It got me thinking: If someone is shooting at the house, can't a person return fire? I figure a person can, just looking for some ideas on this though. I figure if you feel in danger of your life and/or limb, you can use deadly force.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 11-07-2012 at 02:57 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  2. #2
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    I'm thinking returning fire to a vehicle from an upstairs window would have a tactical advantage. However, legally, perhaps not very wise. Better off with a video camera perched on it.

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    Another thing to look at is, what risks would you be taking by firing towards the street and what's on the other side.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I'm not stating that I would return fire. Just got me thinking these past two days. It's tough, walking out the door, and seeing bullet holes at the front of your home, and someone taken to the hospital with a gunshot wound. I hope they catch these people.

    I do think a person has a right to return fire when fired upon. The can of worms that opens up when you return fire though, and even moreso if you hit your target.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am glad you and your family are not harmed.

    Do you have opinions on the reason for the rash of incidents in your neighborhood. Bad neighborhood, haters of the gay marriage bill?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Time to install some good Night vision security cameras for starters.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Time to install some good Night vision security cameras for starters.

    They getting very reasonable too, can check in on them with your phone.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    SNIP It's tough, walking out the door, and seeing bullet holes at the front of your home...
    Just do to yourself what you've been doing to some of us for quite some time. Just ignore it, pretend it didn't happen, go off on a tangent (until you forget about it), toss off glib comments about it until it stops bothering you, or just contradict yourself until its stops bothering you.

    I'm sorry for the victims; but I think you've earned the lack of sympathy from some of us.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Just do to yourself what you've been doing to some of us for quite some time. Just ignore it, pretend it didn't happen, go off on a tangent (until you forget about it), toss off glib comments about it until it stops bothering you, or just contradict yourself until its stops bothering you.

    I'm sorry for the victims; but I think you've earned the lack of sympathy from some of us.
    Berettalady may not be our favorite poster here,,, but
    she is thoughtfull, conciderate, friendly, and carring...
    she has her opinions as we all rightly do, even though we might disagree with each other,,, often...
    I am glad she and her family are unharmed and
    I am sad that sooo many dangerous things are happening in her neighborhood!

    Citizen... I am ashamed that a usually respected member of our forum would disrespect someone that way..
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Berettalady may not be our favorite poster here,,, but
    she is thoughtfull, conciderate, friendly, and carring...
    she has her opinions as we all rightly do, even though we might disagree with each other,,, often...
    I am glad she and her family are unharmed and
    I am sad that sooo many dangerous things are happening in her neighborhood!

    Citizen... I am ashamed that a usually respected member of our forum would disrespect someone that way..
    Good heavens, why are you shamed? You didn't write it. And since when do you, of all people, go in for PC and sympathy? You're tough as nails--I've seen it.


    With all that said, though, I am sad for the victims in her neighborhood. But, I am most emphatically not sad that she feels its tough to see the barbarity in her neighborhood. I wasn't addressing her ideas, kids, or any of that. The quote I extracted is carefully limited to her frame of mind--that she finds it tough.

    And, I told her to try overcoming it by wearing on the other foot the same shoe she's thrown our way. You're right, she's entitled to her own opinions, but she's not entitled to duck, dodge, weave, evade, and even contradict herself with some regularity on tough questions, and not be called on it. She's practically made a career out of not facing tough questions here; there is no reason she can't avoid facing a tough situation there in order to feel better. And, before anybody argues about it, notice that I just said feel better. I didn't say avoid facing a tough situation and do nothing about the situation.

    No, its not sympathetic. No, its not PC--the approved response. But, it is entirely fair to tell her to use the same tactics on her herself that she's used on some of us.

    Now, if you will please not defend her, she might get the idea that her forum tactics maybe need a change.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-08-2012 at 03:07 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    <snip> It got me thinking: If someone is shooting at the house, can't a person return fire? I figure a person can, just looking for some ideas on this though. I figure if you feel in danger of your life and/or limb, you can use deadly force.
    Ask a lawyer.

    My unqualified opinion is, no, unless you reasonably believe that the "perp(s)" are shooting at your portion of the four unit house. Video surveilance of the front of the house is a excellent recommendation.

    Good luck and be safe.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am glad you and your family are not harmed.

    Do you have opinions on the reason for the rash of incidents in your neighborhood. Bad neighborhood, haters of the gay marriage bill?
    This isn't a rash. This is a festering sore. The Central District is one of the top 3 or 4 highest crime areas of Seattle and is well known for gang activity and violence.

    It's not an area I'd live in, given a choice.
    Last edited by Bookman; 11-08-2012 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Dyslexic fingers
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    Hey BerettaLady, IMHO, Me thinx it's 'bout time (if ya' hain't already) to invest in a Remington 870 20ga. pump.

    ; not me in vid.....

  14. #14
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post

    It got me thinking: If someone is shooting at the house, can't a person return fire? I figure a person can, just looking for some ideas on this though. I figure if you feel in danger of your life and/or limb, you can use deadly force.
    Washington state has a felony shoot law.

    You may kill someone who is in the middle of committing, attempting to commit, and is escaping after having committed a felony.

    Then there is the law defense of self and others that is in the law also that justifies bringing arms to bear against the criminals.

    Hell, article 24 of the 1889 constitution proves the self defense side.

    Now the actions you take are your own and I am not offering legal advice at all.

    Now, if I were there, you can damned well bet I would return fire.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Before I get flamed for lack of cites.

    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.


    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

    (1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;

    (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;

    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

    (4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;

    (5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;

    (6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.

    RCW 9A.16.110
    Defending against violent crime — Reimbursement.


    (1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.

    (2) When a person charged with a crime listed in subsection (1) of this section is found not guilty by reason of self-defense, the state of Washington shall reimburse the defendant for all reasonable costs, including loss of time, legal fees incurred, and other expenses involved in his or her defense. This reimbursement is not an independent cause of action. To award these reasonable costs the trier of fact must find that the defendant's claim of self-defense was sustained by a preponderance of the evidence. If the trier of fact makes a determination of self-defense, the judge shall determine the amount of the award.

    (3) Notwithstanding a finding that a defendant's actions were justified by self-defense, if the trier of fact also determines that the defendant was engaged in criminal conduct substantially related to the events giving rise to the charges filed against the defendant the judge may deny or reduce the amount of the award. In determining the amount of the award, the judge shall also consider the seriousness of the initial criminal conduct.

    Nothing in this section precludes the legislature from using the sundry claims process to grant an award where none was granted under this section or to grant a higher award than one granted under this section.

    (4) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section is decided by a judge, the judge shall consider the same questions as must be answered in the special verdict under subsection (4) [(5)] of this section.

    (5) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section has been submitted to a jury, and the jury has found the defendant not guilty, the court shall instruct the jury to return a special verdict in substantially the following form:


    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.


    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:
    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;





    Draw your own conclusions.

    By that I would say that, yes, shooting back is perfectly legal.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Time to install some good Night vision security cameras for starters.
    with all the "incidents" mentioned, I'd just consider a change of neighborhood. Security Camera's don't make anyone bulletproof.

    Did I notice "Central District"? Would that be Seattle's Central District? If so, don't expect any change and if you do end up shooting back, expect the "perps" to return with more friends with more guns. Been that way for as long as I can remember.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  17. #17
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Berettalady may not be our favorite poster here,,, but
    she is thoughtfull, conciderate, friendly, and carring...
    she has her opinions as we all rightly do, even though we might disagree with each other,,, often...
    I am glad she and her family are unharmed and
    I am sad that sooo many dangerous things are happening in her neighborhood!

    Citizen... I am ashamed that a usually respected member of our forum would disrespect someone that way..
    I have to agree with Citizen. Beretta has done her best to get ostracized, including egregious attacks on people's religions.

    Anyway I'm not offering any advice but if you shoot into my house you can expect an extremely quick response. Probably of the 7.62 nature.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I live at a four unit house, on a main street. Five or six shots went off, I ran downstairs, three of the kids were asleep, and one of the kids was awake, looked out the window, and seen the perp, and the car.

    Neighbor's friend got shot in the arm. There were a couple of spent rounds, intact, on the ground, looked like 357, sounded like a magnum.

    I have been a bit on high alert these past two days. A couple of weeks ago, it was on the news, we had a house fire bombed, next to us, two nights in a row, the second night the house went up in flames.

    I used to always carry, even in the house. This past year I haven't been carrying in the house. Now I'm back to carrying in the house again.

    Seems like all hell is breaking loose in the Central District, here.

    It got me thinking: If someone is shooting at the house, can't a person return fire? I figure a person can, just looking for some ideas on this though. I figure if you feel in danger of your life and/or limb, you can use deadly force.
    Wow. I don't know the neighborhood, but I sure hope that is something practically unheard of there, or do you live in an area where this is not unheard of?

    Please allow a few tactical thoughts to process at anytime.

    Please teach your kids NOT to look out the window! MAYBE they can help with the description of the car or something, but the chance of becoming a targeted witness or being in the path of random gunfire is too great. Cover and concealment, preferably the former, are your friends here.

    For a drive-by, unless you are specifically being targeted with well-aimed fire (unlikely), you are in far greater danger returning fire than taking cover. We shoot to save our ass, not just because we can.

    A drive-by is rarely random. A little profiling about what kind of person your neighbor is might be in order. A specific target of a drive-by is probably always going to be a target for being whoever he is that made him a target in the first place.

    All guns sound like "magnums" when you are downrange with no hearing protection. A .357 leaving cases during a drive-by would be caused by some extremely rare, expensive semi-autos, or some really time-wasting revolver shooters dumping their brass and reloading. I know you are just talking to us friends, but it's a good habit to not guess too much on details; let the cops sort it out after giving them only what you know. That's their one job, investigate and paperwork. You and your family are safe, so you've been doing your job.

    That's a hard way to be reminded not to let your guard and defenses down at home. Only you can decide between "safer" and "more affordable," though.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-08-2012 at 12:09 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheGunMan's Avatar
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    Location

    Your location says "In my coffee". Could you be more specific. Then mabee your story might help someone.
    Last edited by TheGunMan; 11-08-2012 at 12:39 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sharpender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    with all the "incidents" mentioned, I'd just consider a change of neighborhood. .
    Agreed! When I was a 7 we lived in Santa Ana, CA....a very high crime area, for about a year. We would hear gunfire in the street almost daily. Every time we heard it we all hit the floor. I'm 43 now, and I still remember vividly that we had to do this. Just because you're kids haven't caught a stray round yet, and it seems likely they will at some point, doesn't mean they're not being hurt emotionally. Time to move!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGunMan View Post
    Your location says "In my coffee". Could you be more specific. Then mabee your story might help someone.
    She is referring to the Central District in Seattle.
    Live Free or Die!

  22. #22
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Depends on if the threat is still there. Who am I to assume the people in the street know how to aim for their intended victims only? Even if they can aim; drive-bys are not how civilized people solve problems.

    Pow pow pow, screech....nothing I will do other than duck until it's safe and get out.


    Pow x 15, 2 seconds, pow pow continues... somebody means business, and they can expect some from the other end. Not going to lie on the floor waiting to get hit by a round or two.


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  23. #23
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Time to install some good Night vision security cameras for starters.
    Costco has Q-See 8 & 16-camera systems on sale (online only, I believe) that are easy to install.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Make sure your dvr is of high quality. You can have nice cameras with the capability of shooting clear video, but if your dvr is lacking, it will be all for not.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am glad you and your family are not harmed.

    Do you have opinions on the reason for the rash of incidents in your neighborhood. Bad neighborhood, haters of the gay marriage bill?
    It seems to be gang related, and drug dealing related. I've been at red alert these past couple of days.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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