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Rexburg Idaho robbery and telling officers no

sudden valley gunner

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Unfortunately that only gets you screwed by the local police. There was a guy who got a speeding ticket here in Washington, the cop said that he was pacing him to get his speed. The guy goes to court and points out that the cop is the only who admitted to speeding without an emergency. The guy said that if the cop does not get a speeding ticket then he could not have been paced by the cop. The judge ended up issuing a speeding ticket to the cop.

Ever since then the county SD in the county in which the guy lives would have an officer hanging around his house. Not at the house but with in sight distance of his driveway. Every time they guy got on the road the police would follow him and/or pull him over.

That is what police do to citizens who bust them for their wrong doings.

Can you provide a cite or a link? Not that I doubt the story, there was one when I was a kid and we had the federally mandated 55 speed limit, an older gentleman pulled a cop over and gave him a ticket for ignoring it went to court and the judge ruled in favor of the "civilian". He too was harassed for a long time after also. I can't find links to these though since they were before the days of youtube.

Those of us in Bellingham who have dared to make an issue of police wrong doing has experienced the following and the semi harassment of their police force. Especially when we spanked them for their dislike and harassment of our OC.
 

Freedom1Man

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Can you provide a cite or a link? Not that I doubt the story, there was one when I was a kid and we had the federally mandated 55 speed limit, an older gentleman pulled a cop over and gave him a ticket for ignoring it went to court and the judge ruled in favor of the "civilian". He too was harassed for a long time after also. I can't find links to these though since they were before the days of youtube.

Those of us in Bellingham who have dared to make an issue of police wrong doing has experienced the following and the semi harassment of their police force. Especially when we spanked them for their dislike and harassment of our OC.

Sorry no cite. It was a, now former, friend who had informed me about it.
 

eye95

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One of the major ironies about police attempting to ID people in their investigations is that 99% of time its irrelevant.


For instance, I am sure the police did not know the name of the person who comitted the robbery in the OP's story. So if the OP had given his name to officers it wouldnt have helped them either find out who the robber was or to even locate the robber...

Not justifying, just explaining, their logic. If they do not know the name of the robber, on the off-chance that he is still in the area, having the name of every person in the area means that they now have his name at least on a list (again, assuming--a very big assumption--that he remained in the area).

This does not justify what they did. They have a reason to stop everyone: to ask if they have any knowledge that might be of use in the investigation. If the stoppee has no such information, they must let him go. Saying that everyone in the area is a suspect does not comport with Terry's requirement for articulability. Everyone in the area is a potential witness.

If I understand the situation correctly, I would have given my name and address (or whatever that State requires during a lawful stop--and, if I am being stopped as a potential witness, that is lawful) and stated that I saw nothing (unless, of course, I had seen something pertinent to the investigation).

One does not need to be a suspect to be lawfully stopped. Please don't mistakenly make that assumption.
 

eye95

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Each State may have different laws as to when and how one must identify himself to a LEO, but that does not mean that officers may not stop potential witnesses lawfully.

Again, the caveat I am throwing out there is for folks not to assume that a stop is unlawful simply because they are not a suspect in a crime. There are other reasons an officer may stop you other than your being a suspect, including your being a potential witness to a crime.
 

OC for ME

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Each State may have different laws as to when and how one must identify himself to a LEO, but that does not mean that officers may not stop potential witnesses lawfully.

Again, the caveat I am throwing out there is for folks not to assume that a stop is unlawful simply because they are not a suspect in a crime. There are other reasons an officer may stop you other than your being a suspect, including your being a potential witness to a crime.
Stopping (detaining in my view) a "potential" witness does not translate into a requirement that the "potential" (in the eyes of LE) witness must ID themselves to a state agent.

LEO: "Excuse me sir, did you.....?"
Me: "No officer, I did not/was not."
LEO: "Could I have your name please?"
Me: "Officer, may I ask what relevance my name has with regards to your investigation?"

There is no "unlawful stop" in the eyes of LE, there is only a "unlawful stop" in the eyes of the court. Of course, to get to the court a LEO must escalate the stop to a official detention, at a minimum, as a result of a citizen exerting their rights lawfully.
 

eye95

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Again, I would caution folks not to act rashly when stopped by a LEO. You could be charged with a crime.

If the stop is lawful (and, again, stopping potential witnesses IS absolutely lawful) and if State law requires you to identify yourself in some fashion if you have been lawfully stopped, then not identifying yourself could be a crime (again, depending on State law).

Just one more time: Be careful, folks, before you are encouraged to refuse to identify yourself to an officer. This advice brought to you from someone who has refused to identify himself.

Not wishing to become any more repetitive, I'll just move on to something else.
 

DCR

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, ,
Idaho deserves the public servants and government it elects

You live in the reddest city of the reddest state in the country.

I'm a former resident of that area, and know of which I speak.

The cops are all red as they come. So is the judge, who is appointed by the red judicial council, and the red population votes to retain the judge every 4 years.

The cops and judge all go to church together there (the only one - you know what I mean), and may well be in the same ward. You wouldn't last two seconds in court claiming your innocence on a charge of obstructing. Only when and if it got appealed away and to the Idaho Supreme Court would you even remotely stand a chance.

Finish your degree and get away - the population is drunk on red power, the civil servants and elected officials included, and anyone who doesn't blindly follow the orders of the "authorities" is a standout who must be subjugated.

If you must stay, take a good look at the politics and politicians, and start voting the other way (in two years, I guess).
 

bowb

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I don't live there, only work. I would never choose to go to school there as I know I would never follow the honor code. I have oced there as I have relatives there and have not had problems yet.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
 

DCR

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It appears you are not alone in this situation-

The practice of detaining everyone in the area after a bank robbery is receiving scrutiny:

Link: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55313446-68/police-paetsch-authorities-belcher.html.csp

Snippet of article:

Case pits police use of technology against citizens’ rights


By DAN FROSCH

| The New York Times


Aurora, Colo. • On the afternoon of June 2, authorities say, a former music teacher named Christian Paetsch walked into a Wells Fargo branch waving a gun and ordered everyone to lie down.

About 15 minutes later, a phalanx of police cars descended upon an intersection a few miles away, blockading dozens of shocked motorists — including Paetsch, whom the authorities had tracked with a GPS device buried in the $26,000 he was accused of stealing.

But with only the faintest physical description and unsure which vehicle the device was in, the police trained their weapons on all 20 cars at the intersection and ordered people to show their hands. For nearly two hours, the police ordered every driver and passenger to step out of their cars, even handcuffing some of them, before discovering the missing money and two loaded firearms in Paetsch’s SUV.
 

Logan 5

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So a bank is robbed and they think you might be the perp. No security cameras I see. This is why it's good to know the cops. Kinda.


The practice of detaining everyone in the area after a bank robbery is receiving scrutiny:

Link: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55313446-68/police-paetsch-authorities-belcher.html.csp

Snippet of article:

Case pits police use of technology against citizens’ rights


By DAN FROSCH

| The New York Times


Aurora, Colo. • On the afternoon of June 2, authorities say, a former music teacher named Christian Paetsch walked into a Wells Fargo branch waving a gun and ordered everyone to lie down.

About 15 minutes later, a phalanx of police cars descended upon an intersection a few miles away, blockading dozens of shocked motorists — including Paetsch, whom the authorities had tracked with a GPS device buried in the $26,000 he was accused of stealing.

But with only the faintest physical description and unsure which vehicle the device was in, the police trained their weapons on all 20 cars at the intersection and ordered people to show their hands. For nearly two hours, the police ordered every driver and passenger to step out of their cars, even handcuffing some of them, before discovering the missing money and two loaded firearms in Paetsch’s SUV.

And if they had the GPS unit, they can also track the signal to it. The GPS' they use in that also have a tracker signal. They'll know the approximate location from the GPS transmitting it, then they get closer there is a another signal on a different frequency. A good example of this is the Tracker II Avalanche Beacons that back country skiers carry. Exact same concept.

And the bank security GPS units have those.

As for asking for ID, give me a break. The ID doesn't mean squat. the burglur also has ID. If they want ID then they know who they are looking for. If they know who they are looking for, then they don't need to ID everyone. Just go looking for the guy they want.
 
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eye95

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Pointing guns at folks with no RAS that those specific folks were criminals goes against Terry. A cop points a gun at me without RAS, and I'm pursuing the hell outta criminal assault charges.

Technology should make it easier to catch the bad guys, while impacting citizens less. If it can't do that, don't use it until it can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

sudden valley gunner

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Pointing guns at folks with no RAS that those specific folks were criminals goes against Terry. A cop points a gun at me without RAS, and I'm pursuing the hell outta criminal assault charges.

Technology should make it easier to catch the bad guys, while impacting citizens less. If it can't do that, don't use it until it can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

+1
 

Freedom1Man

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Pointing guns at folks with no RAS that those specific folks were criminals goes against Terry. A cop points a gun at me without RAS, and I'm pursuing the hell outta criminal assault charges.

Technology should make it easier to catch the bad guys, while impacting citizens less. If it can't do that, don't use it until it can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

OMG the world is beginning to come to an end. We have agreed on something else again.

Gun pointing at me, it's no longer a Terry Stop.

+2
 
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Ca Patriot

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Pointing guns at folks with no RAS that those specific folks were criminals goes against Terry. A cop points a gun at me without RAS, and I'm pursuing the hell outta criminal assault charges.

Hmm.....but if they were filming the police then maybe it would be okay.......
 

eye95

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Hmm.....but if they were filming the police then maybe it would be okay.......

Folks, I am sure this poster thinks he has found an inconsistency between my response in this thread and those in another. What makes the quoted response foolish is the poster's current assumption that I was commenting on his other ASSUMPTION that the firearm-pointing being discussed was solely the result of the filming. As many other posters pointed out in that thread, there were other things going on, not all of which we were aware that might have justified the pointing. No one, NO ONE, said that the pointing was justified, just that this poster was conclusion-jumping saying that it wasn't.

Lack of respect meter is really beginning to peg.


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<o>
 

MKEgal

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Ca Patriot said:
...if the OP had given his name to officers it wouldnt have helped them either find out who the robber was or to even locate the robber.
...if the police knew who comitted the robbery then they would have a desciption of the suspect and wouldnt need random people to ID themselves because the police would already know by looks who they are looking for.
Logic & rationality. What a concept.
If only it would work on officers in the field.
 

KYGlockster

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Pointing guns at folks with no RAS that those specific folks were criminals goes against Terry. A cop points a gun at me without RAS, and I'm pursuing the hell outta criminal assault charges.

Technology should make it easier to catch the bad guys, while impacting citizens less. If it can't do that, don't use it until it can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

If I knew what I do now when I was 15 I could've owned my local PD.

I was riding with my uncle to the local gas-station when we noticed numerous police cruisers coming our way on a two-lane road; naturally, we pulled into a parking lot so they could pass, being as we had no idea where they were going. When we pulled into the lot, the officers pulled in directly behind us (5 cruisers) and jumped out of their vehicles with guns drawn. We were in a parking lot on the right side of the road, and to the left of the road is our local mall. An officer yelled for my uncle to turn off the ignition to the van and throw the keys out of the driver's window. They then asked him to put his hands outside of the window and open the door with his left hand, while keeping his right hand in the air.

As he was exiting the vehicle, I became very nervous, and being as I did not know any better I exited the vehicle at the same time. When I came around the rear of the van I immediately faced down 4 pistols and a shotgun (I learned this after the fact being as I was in slow-motion once I realized they had their firearms pointed at me). They yelled at me very fiercely to put my hands above my head and to lay on my stomach. I really don't think words can express the tone of their voices.

I did as they asked, and immediately had four officers on top of me cuffing me violently, with two of them jamming their firearms into the back of my head. Only one officer stood over my uncle with his gun drawn, and they didn't cuff him until they had finished knocking me around.

They searched my uncle, me, and the van. When my uncle asked them why they had just "felony stopped" us, they stated that someone had called in and said that there was someone in a brown van bringing a gun to the fight that was occuring in the mall lot. We had no knowledge of such a fight, and it seemed a little strange that someone would "call in" and say such nonsense.

Once they determined that we were not the "suspected" individuals, they took the 'cuffs off and sent us on our way.

Fast-forward 5 years, and I began dating a girl whos uncle just happened to work for the Ashland PD (he was one of the officers that showed up after the fact), and we became friends. After several months of knowing him, I asked him about that night and if he remembered it, which he clearly did. I then asked him if they had honestly received a call or if it was bogus, and he answered truthfully -- it was bogus.

This can just go to show anyone that trouble can happen at anytime. We were minding our business and getting out of the officers' way as state law demands, and we ended up having our rights destroyed because of us doing so. What would have happened had we had a firearm? Would we have been booked on some phony charges? Perhaps; I guess I will never really know. It could have costed us large amounts of money and the possible loss of our rights if we had to fight the issue in court if we were charged.

If I were as intelligent as I am now I would have filed charges on the officers and the PD. The limitation for criminal charges is one year, and five years for civil.

I have attempted to find any source of information from that night and I have been unsuccessful. I was told that the local dispatch center did not have anything from that night through a FOIA request.

People say that things like this will never happen to them -- until they do!
 

Beantownfan321

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Nov 24, 2012
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Space Coast FL
Everyone should learn how to disarm a person with a M4 ... its rather easy, with practice ...

They really should not be carrying around M4s ... what do they need them for anyway? The robbery is done, robbers are long gone ...

This is really bad advice. VERY BAD. Trying to take an officer's firearm is a hugely stupid idea, and will get you killed dang near every time.

Not to mention it's a crime in most places, sometimes a felony.

I often carry an M4. Why can't I carry one? Because it shoots big bullets? Because it holds a lot of them? Why?

YOU can carry in your vehicle a loaded M4, why can't the police? What makes you any different than a LEO?
 
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KYGlockster

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This is really bad advice. VERY BAD. Trying to take an officer's firearm is a hugely stupid idea, and will get you killed dang near every time.

Not to mention it's a crime in most places, sometimes a felony.

I often carry an M4. Why can't I carry one? Because it shoots big bullets? Because it holds a lot of them? Why?

YOU can carry in your vehicle a loaded M4, why can't the police? What makes you any different than a LEO?

An M4 expels "big bullets?" Unless you are firing a .50 beowulf conversion or something similiar, it definately does not expel "big bullets."

I have no problem with officer's carrying M4s, as I keep one in my vehicle every where I go myself. I have a problem when an officer uses that M4 maliciously, believing he will simply be protected by qualified immunity [Waco].

Should we militarize our police? Hell no! But I do believe we should allow them sufficient tools to properly execute their posistion -- so long as they do so legally.
 
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