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Thread: Regarding guns secured in car on college campus

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    Question Regarding guns secured in car on college campus

    Hi all-- first post on these forums.

    I'm just about to get married, and I decided to make a major move. I've bought my first gun (though I have shot several times before), taken an online safety course, and applied for my CCP last week.

    My question is this: I'm currently a college student over here in Newport News at CNU. Our handbook policy states the following:

    Unauthorized possession, storage, or control of firearms and weapons on University property is
    prohibited. This includes storage in vehicles on campus as well as in the residence hall. Firearms
    include any gun, rifle, pistol, or handgun designed to fire bullets, BB's, pellets, or shot regardless
    of the propellant used. Additionally, possession of ammunition that could be used with a
    prohibited item is forbidden.
    I've been reading up on my rights as a gun owner, and I've found that I CAN keep it in a secured location in my car. However, does my university's policy restrict me from doing this on their campus? Or is it arguable to say that the state of Virginia "authorizes" me to keep it in my vehicle as long as it's in a secured location (which implies that the campus does not make the authorization, but rather the state)?

    Thanks in advance for the answers.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Hi all-- first post on these forums.

    I'm just about to get married, and I decided to make a major move. I've bought my first gun (though I have shot several times before), taken an online safety course, and applied for my CCP last week.

    My question is this: I'm currently a college student over here in Newport News at CNU. Our handbook policy states the following:



    I've been reading up on my rights as a gun owner, and I've found that I CAN keep it in a secured location in my car. However, does my university's policy restrict me from doing this on their campus? Or is it arguable to say that the state of Virginia "authorizes" me to keep it in my vehicle as long as it's in a secured location (which implies that the campus does not make the authorization, but rather the state)?

    Thanks in advance for the answers.
    What's a CCP?
    Why do you want one?
    Did you buy an ugly plastic gun and that's why you want to hide it?

    The School can make the rules for students and staff. Break them and you get tossed out!
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-08-2012 at 02:36 AM.

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    Regular Member GDBaum's Avatar
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    -snip-

    What's a CCP?
    Why do you want one?

    The School can make the rules for students and staff. Break them and you get tossed out!
    I think he's saying he applied for a CHP but is assuming it's called a Concealed Carry Permit (CCP). Of course you could just be poking a bit of fun. It's hard to tell.

    Now cbtexan, I'm hardly a legal authority but as best as I've been able to figure from reading up on this site, colleges can impose rules upon their students at their own discretion. Even if they couldn't take you to court (maybe they can, someone more knowledgeable will probably weigh in soon enough), they can impose internal sanctions like expelling you from the college or putting you on academic probation.

    Basically, if you want to attend classes there then follow their rules.
    I am speaking of myself. Even that is too much for me. How can I be expected to speak of all men at once, and satisfy them too?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Hi all-- first post on these forums.

    I'm just about to get married, and I decided to make a major move. I've bought my first gun (though I have shot several times before), taken an online safety course, and applied for my CCP last week.

    My question is this: I'm currently a college student over here in Newport News at CNU. Our handbook policy states the following:



    I've been reading up on my rights as a gun owner, and I've found that I CAN keep it in a secured location in my car. However, does my university's policy restrict me from doing this on their campus? Or is it arguable to say that the state of Virginia "authorizes" me to keep it in my vehicle as long as it's in a secured location (which implies that the campus does not make the authorization, but rather the state)?

    Thanks in advance for the answers.
    Welcome to OCDO cbtex04. While definitely not intended as a slight, your "newness" is shining through. It takes some time and effort to be able accomplish understanding the statutes applicable and the language/terms here. You bearly scratched the surface with that on-line course and there are many pitfalls out there for the ill informed, unwary, not properly prepared.

    In VA, that little piece of paper in your wallet is a CHP (concealed handgun permit) - we do not have a CCP.

    State agencies, which include state colleges/universities, at not prevented from making their own rules regarding guns and ammunition by 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies, what we commonly call "preemption". It is important to reiterate that this statute refers to local municipalities (city & counties), NOT state agencies - don't let the title of 15.2-915 confuse you. Statute titles have no application in the law in any event. VCDL Citizens Defense League) is trying to fix this - you should consider joining or at least sign up for the free Va-Alerts.

    Bottom line is that at this time, the university can and likely would apply serious sanctions against you if you were found to have violated their rule on this for whatever reason/excuse you might have. Zero tolerance in this matter doesn't have to make any sense to jeopardize your academic future.

    Hope you stay, learn and become involved. Suggest attending some of the local meet n' greets to talk first hand with some of the local "old hands" - such face-time will give you more in less time that reading hundreds of pages here. Look for scheduled dinners and such at the top of the VA sub-forum.

    Best wishes to you - remember knowledge is power.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDBaum View Post
    -snip-



    I think he's saying he applied for a CHP but is assuming it's called a Concealed Carry Permit (CCP). Of course you could just be poking a bit of fun. It's hard to tell.

    Now cbtexan, I'm hardly a legal authority but as best as I've been able to figure from reading up on this site, colleges can impose rules upon their students at their own discretion. Even if they couldn't take you to court (maybe they can, someone more knowledgeable will probably weigh in soon enough), they can impose internal sanctions like expelling you from the college or putting you on academic probation.

    Basically, if you want to attend classes there then follow their rules.
    Just poking fun GD.

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    Another welcome to OCDO. Please go to www.vcdl.org and sign up for the VA-ALERT free email newsletter even if you do not decide to join. Check the stickies regularly to learn about meet&greet events in your area. Go meet the folks at the VCDL table at the gun shows. Reserve Monday, Jan. 21, 2013 on your calendar to come to the General Assembly Building in Richmond to join us for Lobby Day.

    As everyone else has pretty much said, CNU can impose rules on you that they might not be able to impose on those outside the school "community" *hack, spit!* (I hate that term). They control you by virtue of being able to throw you out of the "community *hack, spit!*. They appear not to have used the Virginia Administrative Code (I believe they are overstepping their legislative grant of authority, but getting anyone else to agree is difficult) in seting up regulations that effect otherwise lawful non-university "community" *hack, spit!* behavior on campus. But I'm not going to mention that, just in case those thought waves get heard by the BoVs and give them ideas.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    , taken an online safety course.....


    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    I've been reading up on my rights as a gun owner, and I've found that I CAN keep it in a secured location in my car. However, does my university's policy restrict me from doing this on their campus? Or is it arguable to say that the state of Virginia "authorizes" me to keep it in my vehicle as long as it's in a secured location (which implies that the campus does not make the authorization, but rather the state)?

    Thanks in advance for the answers.

    I hate to say it this way, because I don't mean it to sound nasty, but if you took a real course with a real instructor, you'd know the answer to your question. You need to think more about your training than just a 30 minute online video.

    /end of rant

    Short answer is, you need to follow the rules of the school if you are a student.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 11-08-2012 at 07:56 AM.
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    Thanks for all the replies, even the pokes at me

    Seems like the best thing to do would be check in my gun with CNU PD (assuming they will hold it). As far as taking further training from an instructor in person, this is definitely a good idea. I've just taken the first steps towards protecting my "soon to be" family-- I'm not by any means saying that I'm where I want to be.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Another hearty welcome to Virginia and OCDO. And a +1 to "join VCDL (or at least sign up for the VA-ALERT)".

    No one has come right out and said it ... CNU could not charge you criminally for having a gun on campus. They can take whatever sanctions they want within their code - up to and including expulsion. THAT record is hard to overcome if you apply elsewhere. CNU might be able to ask for charges of criminal trespass; on that I'm not certain.

    Can you park your car just off campus when your firearm is secured inside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Thanks for all the replies, even the pokes at me

    Seems like the best thing to do would be check in my gun with CNU PD (assuming they will hold it). As far as taking further training from an instructor in person, this is definitely a good idea. I've just taken the first steps towards protecting my "soon to be" family-- I'm not by any means saying that I'm where I want to be.
    in order to do that wouldn't you have to 'possess' the firearm on the campus in order to get it to them so they could hold it for you? The mere possession alone is grounds for disciplinary action in the eyes of the university.

    I'm not advocating you do anything either illegal or against university policy, but I'd suggest you KYBMS* completely about firearms when anywhere near the campus, other students, faculty & CNU PD. If you draw attention to yourself you'll be targeted by them, say nothing and they won't know anything.

    (* = Keep Your Big Mouth Shut)

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    in order to do that wouldn't you have to 'possess' the firearm on the campus in order to get it to them so they could hold it for you? The mere possession alone is grounds for disciplinary action in the eyes of the university.

    I'm not advocating you do anything either illegal or against university policy, but I'd suggest you KYBMS* completely about firearms when anywhere near the campus, other students, faculty & CNU PD. If you draw attention to yourself you'll be targeted by them, say nothing and they won't know anything.

    (* = Keep Your Big Mouth Shut)
    CNU PD is off campus grounds, and my fiance (who lives in Fredericksburg) is the only one who knows that I've made the purchase. Definitely not going to put myself in a position where I have to worry about who's going to spill the beans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Thanks for all the replies, even the pokes at me
    As far as taking further training from an instructor in person, this is definitely a good idea. I've just taken the first steps towards protecting my "soon to be" family-- I'm not by any means saying that I'm where I want to be.
    Good to hear. Keep up the good work. Carrying a gun is a big responsibility and proper training is key.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    in order to do that wouldn't you have to 'possess' the firearm on the campus in order to get it to them so they could hold it for you? The mere possession alone is grounds for disciplinary action in the eyes of the university.

    I'm not advocating you do anything either illegal or against university policy, but I'd suggest you KYBMS* completely about firearms when anywhere near the campus, other students, faculty & CNU PD. If you draw attention to yourself you'll be targeted by them, say nothing and they won't know anything.

    (* = Keep Your Big Mouth Shut)
    Not to advertise or suggest that he is carrying in violation of school policy, but we/he/all of us need advocates to promote the change whereby sudents and staff will be able to protect themselves while on campus. Silence on this issue will only guarantee that it will be perpetuated.

    Letting one's voice be heard (within bounds of the rules) is a protected right [--That hurt to say it that way--]
    Is there a Students For Concealed Carry group on Campus?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-08-2012 at 09:30 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Thanks for all the replies, even the pokes at me

    Seems like the best thing to do would be check in my gun with CNU PD (assuming they will hold it). As far as taking further training from an instructor in person, this is definitely a good idea. I've just taken the first steps towards protecting my "soon to be" family-- I'm not by any means saying that I'm where I want to be.
    NOOOOOOO!! A thousand times no!!

    Never surrender your handgun to the cops - especially not to the Campus Cops.

    First, I'll bet they have no protocol for "holding" it for you - just one for dealing with evidence.

    Second, I'll bet that if you told them you had one you wanted them to hold they would snatch you up and get you placed on double-secret probation until you could be expelled. (And not bother to find out if you had it at home and were just trying to find out what the procedures might be.)

    If you can get a decent security drawer mounted in your vehicle, you might (that's might) consider looking for an off-campus place to park. Back in the Pre-Cambrian Age I found a house close to my campus that was willing to rent me driveway space for a modest monthly rate. Of course, back then there were still folks who stayed at home and who would in fact keep an eye on my car. But who knows, you might get lucky.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    NOOOOOOO!! A thousand times no!!

    .
    A million times no ! (we are talking about not giving your gun to the cops & not on the subject of getting married, right?)


    Youth and stupidity come hand in hand ... lol

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Sounds like you could use one of these for your vehicle......




    Click here for the website - http://www.consolevault.com/?AffId=5
    James Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Just poking fun GD.
    And this is why I should probably post before work and classes and not late at night afterwards. The "ugly gun" thing should have been a dead give away.

    Oh what 14 hours of work can do to a person.
    I am speaking of myself. Even that is too much for me. How can I be expected to speak of all men at once, and satisfy them too?

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    I would park on the street not in the parking lots, that way you are parked on a public road. I did this when I attended ODU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    What's a CCP?
    ...The School can make the rules for students and staff. Break them and you get tossed out!
    1. "Chinese Communist Party"

    2. Right. That's pretty much the worst that can happen.

    3. Answer to original question, in the immortal words of Bill Clinton, "Don't ask, don't tell."
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    1. "Chinese Communist Party"

    2. Right. That's pretty much the worst that can happen.

    3. Answer to original question, in the immortal words of Bill Clinton, "Don't ask, don't tell."
    The OP asked:
    However, does my university's policy restrict me from doing this on their campus? Or is it arguable to say that the state of Virginia "authorizes" me to keep it in my vehicle as long as it's in a secured location (which implies that the campus does not make the authorization, but rather the state)?
    He deserves an answer, and we owe him and the board an answer that complies with the rules. Other than his follow-up question, he did not inquire about informing the school of his behavior but inquired if he could get around school policy by citing Code of Virginia. The answer to his question must be: "No."

    The OP has not asked what might happen if he does violate school policy, although several posters have provided opinions about that. The OP has not asked if he should violate school policy but has received at least tacit encouragement to do so. This is not fair to the OP or to the board.

    Had the OP stated that in spite of the advice given he intended to violate school policy and wondered what the best way tp proceed might be, then I can see and support educating him on the 5th Amendment provision against self-incrimination and urging him to apply it should he in fact carry out his proposed behavior.

    I think the "more elegant" response would be for him to erase all his discussion about the matter and seek to have the thread deleted.

    But the OP has not stated a intent to violate school policy, has he?

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Excellent and incisive analysis by Skidmark. My apologies. As to the question presented, I'd say the answer is, "No." The statutory provision providing for the ability to "secure" the firearm in the vehicle is an exception to the concealed weapons prohibition. It does not authorize possession of a firearm in a place where it's not allowed by some other valid regulation or statute.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The OP asked:


    He deserves an answer, and we owe him and the board an answer that complies with the rules. Other than his follow-up question, he did not inquire about informing the school of his behavior but inquired if he could get around school policy by citing Code of Virginia. The answer to his question must be: "No."

    The OP has not asked what might happen if he does violate school policy, although several posters have provided opinions about that. The OP has not asked if he should violate school policy but has received at least tacit encouragement to do so. This is not fair to the OP or to the board.

    Had the OP stated that in spite of the advice given he intended to violate school policy and wondered what the best way tp proceed might be, then I can see and support educating him on the 5th Amendment provision against self-incrimination and urging him to apply it should he in fact carry out his proposed behavior.

    I think the "more elegant" response would be for him to erase all his discussion about the matter and seek to have the thread deleted.

    But the OP has not stated a intent to violate school policy, has he?

    stay safe.
    I'm unsure if your post is meant to belittle me, if it's actual advice. Why would you advise me to erase this thread, when it was a genuine question?

    Of course I'm not going to be as versed as some of you on the law. I'm still in school, I've barely started on my track. I will say, however, that if (and I'm not pointing you out specifically) individuals offer such replies as "delete this thread", how are we, younger generation, going to learn?

    Back on topic, thank you everybody for the responses. I do believe that the best advice on this board was from a fellow student who suggested I park off campus grounds. However, I feel the "don't ask don't tell" policy will be my course of action, as far as weapons in the car. I've intentionally remained silent about what specific choice I will make, mostly because if legal actions were ever brought against me, I would not want this post as incriminating evidence.

    EDIT: As far as telling the university that I may or may not have a weapon (even if stored legally), I've browsed this board enough to know that's just asking for trouble.
    Last edited by cbtexan04; 11-09-2012 at 06:07 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    I'm unsure if your post is meant to belittle me, if it's actual advice. Why would you advise me to erase this thread, when it was a genuine question?

    Of course I'm not going to be as versed as some of you on the law. I'm still in school, I've barely started on my track. I will say, however, that if (and I'm not pointing you out specifically) individuals offer such replies as "delete this thread", how are we, younger generation, going to learn?

    Back on topic, thank you everybody for the responses. I do believe that the best advice on this board was from a fellow student who suggested I park off campus grounds. However, I feel the "don't ask don't tell" policy will be my course of action, as far as weapons in the car. I've intentionally remained silent about what specific choice I will make, mostly because if legal actions were ever brought against me, I would not want this post as incriminating evidence.

    EDIT: As far as telling the university that I may or may not have a weapon (even if stored legally), I've browsed this board enough to know that's just asking for trouble.
    I seriously doubt skidmark meant any belittling. I took him to mean that you've been given a lot of advice that amounts to "ignore the rules" which is not really what this board is all about. Letting the thread remain makes us all complicit - though I figure we should think about that BEFORE we post.

    If you're near/at VCU, you're in Richmond. Why not come on out to the breakfast tomorrow and ask him yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    I seriously doubt skidmark meant any belittling. I took him to mean that you've been given a lot of advice that amounts to "ignore the rules" which is not really what this board is all about. Letting the thread remain makes us all complicit - though I figure we should think about that BEFORE we post.

    If you're near/at VCU, you're in Richmond. Why not come on out to the breakfast tomorrow and ask him yourself?
    Ahh, apologies to skidmark for my overly defensive post!

    I'm actually in Newport News at CNU, and I will be preparing for my wedding which is a week from now if it were a closer event, I would be better able to attend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbtexan04 View Post
    Ahh, apologies to skidmark for my overly defensive post!

    I'm actually in Newport News at CNU, and I will be preparing for my wedding which is a week from now if it were a closer event, I would be better able to attend!
    My apologies; I did read that but forgot.

    Congratulations on the impending nuptials.

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