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Thread: Petition

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    Regular Member jgross85's Avatar
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    Petition

    I know this topic is a little off our standard but does any one know if we are starting a petition to send to the white house to make sure the assault weapon ban never even gets started. I was just wondering also if enough of us tell them we don't want it they have to listen right?
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  2. #2
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    They never HAVE to listen.

    That's been proven time and time again here in Washington.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member jgross85's Avatar
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    I guess I'm asking because I think more people in the USA are enjoying and participating in there second amendment rights and if that is true we put a stop to the ban in the 90s we should be able to do it again. Anyone have any good ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgross85 View Post
    I guess I'm asking because I think more people in the USA are enjoying and participating in there second amendment rights and if that is true we put a stop to the ban in the 90s we should be able to do it again. Anyone have any good ideas?
    Yeah, I have a solution in mind , but I could go to prison for even mentioing it.

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    Use words like "boiling mad", "crazy", "need for action", and write it in red crayon.

    Then you'll get your petition noticed!

    Keep the Faith!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgross85 View Post
    I guess I'm asking because I think more people in the USA are enjoying and participating in there second amendment rights and if that is true we put a stop to the ban in the 90s we should be able to do it again. Anyone have any good ideas?
    Your heart is in the right place, but I'll be honest with you. A petition won't do a damn thing. The reality is that the White House is in charge, and they will not relinquish an atom of power once they have it. Do you honestly expect them to respect a stack of papers with names on it? They don't respect the documents that are already in place to allegedly restrain them, so a written request that they please, pretty please, don't restrict and control the people they are in charge of isn't going to work. Does a three year old's pleas to do what they want sway their parents? Typically, no.

    There are alternative courses of action. Become educated, refuse to consent to the system, and think critically and independently. Learn to detect when you are being psychologically manipulated and become self reliant and responsible. Don't depend on the government to be a benefactor or caretaker, in any regard. You can't fix a broken system from within by participating in it; only by refusal to play the game can you hope to make a difference. They need your cooperation to make it work, so stop asking permission from the overlords for the rights that are inherently yours.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an.....or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Sometimes a petition is not intended for the people that actually receive the petition. Sometimes the knowledge that your petition exists is enough to motivate citizens to "petition" their government in lawful ways other than via your petition.

    .....it can't hurt, go for it.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    - The foundation -

    I think that attempting to prevent future anti-gunlegislation is important, and yes writing our reps and congress etc. is important so that our view point is at least heard. However I also believe that pushing back from the front is often futile, especially in today’s state of affairs. In other words, spending energy to convince the cronies to not do something is like trying to move a house, and to move a house, you have to attack the foundation. How could we do that?.. by repealing existing gun laws and pushing our own laws, this may be a viable maneuver. In a tactical sense, it diverts attention away from the front side of the problem, puts the anti-gun supporters in a defensive posture, and ties up their energy. Suffice to say,the best defense is a good offence, and re-directing our energy to de-constructing the problem, instead of simply being focused on preventing future constructs could change the tides to our favor. Yes it would take monumental efforts, and would have to have a huge backing, but I believe the philosophy is sound.
    Last edited by Batousaii; 11-08-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    I don't think they could pass another assault weapons ban, all the politicians that created it the last time got immediatly voted out of office.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    You do not petition the white house, you write to your congress critters and tell them you will actively work to see they do not get elected again if they vote for another AWB.

    That is how it works...White house? Doesn't matter who is resident there...no bill passed by congress, no bill to sign. Work on you local congress critter...hard...cause our WA state US Senators our both anti's through and through and will vote for a ban in a flash.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgross85 View Post
    .......... I was just wondering also if enough of us tell them we don't want it they have to listen right?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    You might try SignOn.org to start a petition, if you are still interested.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgross85 View Post
    I know this topic is a little off our standard but does any one know if we are starting a petition to send to the white house to make sure the assault weapon ban never even gets started. I was just wondering also if enough of us tell them we don't want it they have to listen right?
    Believe it or not, there is some case law on the First Amendment right to petition for redress of grievance. A very little bit of case law, like maybe two cases. I can't even begin to recall the case names, so I can't cite.

    My recollection on one is pretty vague. I have this impression that it was supportive in a back-handed way. What I mean by that is the case ended up holding something along the lines that the right to petition is definitely a right, but not as applied to the appellants' situation.

    In any event, yes, I believe they have to read the petition--they can't just ignore it or toss it in the trash. But, I know of nothing that says they have do the things requested as redress.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Petition

    Whoa..... What is this assault weapon ban talk?? I am way out of the loop.... Could somebody fill me in on the details or point in the right direction to get this info?

    I may have to seriously look into purchasing my first AR soon if they may ban the purchases......

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -NEMO- View Post
    Whoa..... What is this assault weapon ban talk?? I am way out of the loop.... Could somebody fill me in on the details or point in the right direction to get this info?

    I may have to seriously look into purchasing my first AR soon if they may ban the purchases......
    If certain people have their way, simple ownership will be a crime.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  16. #16
    Regular Member jgross85's Avatar
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    petition

    I think this is kind of what I am talking about it is a petition started by someone else but good enough! To show them we mean business.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/9XZNnRSB

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Yeah, I have a solution in mind , but I could go to prison for even mentioing it.
    I am in it with you Jim its scary how we think so much alike sometime.
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgross85 View Post
    I think this is kind of what I am talking about it is a petition started by someone else but good enough! To show them we mean business.
    "To show them we mean business." Ah, the boundless (and groundless) optimism of youth...

    The President is, and for his entire public life has been, hostile to firearms. That won't change; especially, a petition with a few thousand signatures isn't enough for him to care about. He has now been reelected, so he has "more flexibility" to pursue his agendas; he doesn't have to worry about offending people who might vote against him.

    Leave the feel-good crap like White House petitions to our liberal foes. It won't do a bit of good. Go ahead and sign, but it won't show that anyone "means business". If you must say something to the President, write your own letter directly.

    Do you want to be effective?

    Join the NRA. I know it sounds trite, and they haven't always acted in our best interests, but they are the most effective firearms rights lobbying organization - politicians do listen to them because they can say "we have tens of millions of members, who vote".

    Join the SAF and donate. They are the most effective legal organization that is pursuing court cases to strengthen the legal protections of our firearms rights. Things like Heller (which produced the "in common use" standard of review) and McDonald are critically important to block things like a broad AWB.

    If you must write, write your local representative and your senators. I know that we're unlikely to sway Cantwell and Murray and the liberal representatives, but if they do receive a lot of mail telling them "hands off" it might happen. It sure won't if you don't. Write actual letters or, at the very least, send faxes. The amount of effort put into the contact increases the amount of attention they pay - emails are easy to send and easy to ignore, don't send emails.

    Especially, get vocal with your senators when the President starts proposing replacement supreme court justices who share his philosophy regarding private possession of firearms. The margins in Heller and McDonald were 5:4, we can't afford another liberal SC justice who serves the Collective.

    Don't act like a jerk. Don't help to give the firearms rights community a reputation as paranoid nutcases or bigoted rednecks. Be polite and calm. Make sure that you have the facts on your side. Don't lie, don't exaggerate, don't use anecdotes or quotes that have been debunked.

    Lastly, buy a military-pattern rifle. Help build the "in common use" base and have something to fight back with.
    Last edited by John Hardin; 11-12-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Might I suggest...

    That you read the entire Second Amendment?

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    You seem to be missing half of it in your concerns. The first half.

    Wanna do something productive? Well, Einstein said doing the same thing and expecting a different result was the definition of insanity. You think people haven't written, petitioned, protested, emailed, faxed, called, yelled, threatened or even voted before? Come on, we have been trying that for the last 40 years. And oddly, it hasn't worked. We are actually worse off than before.

    "Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these war-like preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled, that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask, gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!" Patrick Henry

    Buy a black rifle, get your camo, find a group of like minded men in your area and then say "No!". In other words, join the militia.

    Hey, it worked on the Lexington Commons and we haven't tried it much since.

    Washington State Militia
    Modern Militia Movement
    Well Regulated American Militia

    III
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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