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Thread: Hope this guy gets the max.....

  1. #1
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Hope this guy gets the max.....


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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Hmm... tricky position to be in. What will sending him to jail really accomplish? There are 2 young kids who have lost their sister, who will now wonder where there daddy is. You are turning a family, into a single mother household. I guarantee you that Derek has gotten the message, he has no lessons to be learned by going to jail.

    I lost a child last year, though no fault of my own, it's a devestating ordeal. If it had been my fault, I can only imagine the pain involved.

    I'm not saying that he shouldn't face reprecussions for what he did. He should lose the badge, do some community service, or something else. Sending him to jail will just further hurt the innocent victims in this tradgedy.

    Scott

  3. #3
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    It seems like this was an accident. Poor family. How devastating.
    But we should never miss an opportunity to imprison a citizen, especially a gun owner, it's the American way.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I hope he gets a harsher punishment than a civilian would.

    He is trained in the law and should be held to a higher standard.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 11-08-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I hope he gets a harsher punishment than a civilian would.

    He is trained in the law and should be held to a higher standard.
    No. Laws should treat people equal.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No. Laws should treat people equal.
    Yep, we are ALL equal under the law or We are not, and if not then the MOB WILL RULE ALL!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No. Laws should treat people equal.
    I agree! Police officers are not smarter by default, and civilians have just as much opportunity to train and know responsible gun ownership.

    Scott

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    RCW 9A.32.070
    Manslaughter in the second degree.

    (1) A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when, with criminal negligence, he or she causes the death of another person.

    (2) Manslaughter in the second degree is a class B felony.

    (d) CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. A person is criminally negligent or acts with criminal negligence when he or she fails to be aware of a substantial risk that a wrongful act may occur and his or her failure to be aware of such substantial risk constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would exercise in the same situation. from http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.08.010

    IANAL under the law he made a foolish choice, but he did not perform an action that resulted in the death of the little boy, if he is found guilty of manslaughter, then how is this different from a teenager who gets into your liquor cabinet and gives himself alcohol poisoning? Opportunity is not the same as action. He was foolish, but I don't think we as gun-owners want the State to be able to charge us if someone hurts themselves or others if they get access to our firearms, without our consent.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    You raelly need to rethink you attitude...you (me and everyone here) do not really be held responsible for what someone else does with a weapon you own, that you did not authorize the use of it....think carefully, without emotion....

    What is the difference between your young child taking you firearm without your authoriztion, and a local thug doing the same thing...????

    So you want legal precident that if your weapon is stolen, and then used illegally, the owner of the firearm should be held responsible???? Really???> I don't. If someone, anyone, does something illegal with property I own...they should be held responsible. They were the person that conducted the illegal activity.

    I know a lot of people do not see what I see here, but for many reasons I pray this officer is aquitted, not just for his good...but for our good. Where do you thing San Fran came up with the argument that if a pistol was not phyiscally on your person, it needed to be locked up???? (that question is being argued in court right now)

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    You raelly need to rethink you attitude...you (me and everyone here) do not really be held responsible for what someone else does with a weapon you own, that you did not authorize the use of it....think carefully, without emotion....

    What is the difference between your young child taking you firearm without your authoriztion, and a local thug doing the same thing...????

    So you want legal precident that if your weapon is stolen, and then used illegally, the owner of the firearm should be held responsible???? Really???> I don't. If someone, anyone, does something illegal with property I own...they should be held responsible. They were the person that conducted the illegal activity.

    I know a lot of people do not see what I see here, but for many reasons I pray this officer is aquitted, not just for his good...but for our good. Where do you thing San Fran came up with the argument that if a pistol was not phyiscally on your person, it needed to be locked up???? (that question is being argued in court right now)
    +1

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Well to all who think things should be equal... don't forget had this guy been a serviceman he could be convicted twice both under state law and the UCMJ. If LEOs want to play GI Joe let them be held to a dual standard just like the military, let them be judged under the UCMJ. Birk would be behinds bars.

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    The other guy that let this happen just a few short days earlier by the Tacoma Mall was already convicted why did it take this long to charge A guy with A badge. Just asking?
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    The other guy that let this happen just a few short days earlier by the Tacoma Mall was already convicted why did it take this long to charge A guy with A badge. Just asking?
    Due process. Just because the other guy waived some of his rights does not mean that this guy has too waive his.
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  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    Well to all who think things should be equal... don't forget had this guy been a serviceman he could be convicted twice both under state law and the UCMJ. If LEOs want to play GI Joe let them be held to a dual standard just like the military, let them be judged under the UCMJ. Birk would be behinds bars.
    Ahh, the old military straw man argument.

    Let's see; you sign a contract to join the military in which the UCMJ is revealed to be the laws you must follow.

    Since he was not a serviceman and is a civilian LEO he gets the same laws, the same Constitution, the same due process as anyone else.

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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Ahh, the old military straw man argument. Let's see; you sign a contract to join the military in which the UCMJ is revealed to be the laws you must follow. Since he was not a serviceman and is a civilian LEO he gets the same laws, the same Constitution, the same due process as anyone else. actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea
    I'm not making an argument in this case, I'm stating my humble opinion on how I think it should be however flawed my thinking may or may not be.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    IANAL under the law he made a foolish choice, but he did not perform an action that resulted in the death of the little boy( not true), if he is found guilty of manslaughter, then how is this different from a teenager who gets into your liquor cabinet and gives himself alcohol poisoning? .........
    this way... he left an attractive nuisance in plain sight. An accident? No. Negligence? Yes.

    The documents indicate the parents admitted the 3-year-old often tried to get into the home safe that holds Carlile’s guns, that he has his own air soft gun and a toy revolver and that Carlile has shot a BB gun with the boy. During a court ordered interview with police, the 5-year-old allegedly said the 3-year-old always wanted his mother to “get him guns” and that when he played his toy guns, the 3-year-old “Pretends to shoot us.”
    Carlile allegedly told officers during an interview, “He’s very fascinated with guns and that’s why I’m beatin’ myself up because I left my damn gun, for forty seconds, in the center….
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  17. #17
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    "attractive nuisance" is a civil issue NOT a criminal one, you are mixing which area of the law we are discussing. If his wife or his heirs if he had any wanted to sue, they might well have standing under that argument.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Link to Eric Vita's conviction? last I saw it is still a pending charge?

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Link to Eric Vita's conviction? last I saw it is still a pending charge?

    Wrong link my freind . How goes all in the great metropolis of Port Orchard
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

    DEMAND IT
    Congress SHALL NOT receive A salary greater than any service member and will be given EQUIVELANT insurance as any service member

    I came into this world kicking and screaming covered in someone else's blood. And if necessary to protect the Constitution of The United States of AMERICA. I will go out the same way

    All hail the Domain of Neptunus Rex

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmg50cal View Post
    Well to all who think things should be equal... don't forget had this guy been a serviceman he could be convicted twice both under state law and the UCMJ. If LEOs want to play GI Joe let them be held to a dual standard just like the military, let them be judged under the UCMJ. Birk would be behinds bars.
    And if we should allow or encourage the rights of any ONE individual to be violated then ALL of us are at risk to have OUR rights violated.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  21. #21
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Hmm... tricky position to be in. What will sending him to jail really accomplish? There are 2 young kids who have lost their sister, who will now wonder where there daddy is. You are turning a family, into a single mother household. I guarantee you that Derek has gotten the message, he has no lessons to be learned by going to jail.

    I lost a child last year, though no fault of my own, it's a devestating ordeal. If it had been my fault, I can only imagine the pain involved.

    I'm not saying that he shouldn't face reprecussions for what he did. He should lose the badge, do some community service, or something else. Sending him to jail will just further hurt the innocent victims in this tradgedy.

    Scott
    He was stupid. If I did that I would go to jail. He needs to go. Maybe his wife will divorce him and marry a smarter man, a man who values her children and will keep them safe. Greener pastures baby(the wife), I hope you find greener pastures.
    Last edited by jsanchez; 11-09-2012 at 02:15 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    You raelly need to rethink you attitude...you (me and everyone here) do not really be held responsible for what someone else does with a weapon you own, that you did not authorize the use of it....think carefully, without emotion....

    What is the difference between your young child taking you firearm without your authoriztion, and a local thug doing the same thing...????

    So you want legal precident that if your weapon is stolen, and then used illegally, the owner of the firearm should be held responsible???? Really???> I don't. If someone, anyone, does something illegal with property I own...they should be held responsible. They were the person that conducted the illegal activity.

    I know a lot of people do not see what I see here, but for many reasons I pray this officer is aquitted, not just for his good...but for our good. Where do you thing San Fran came up with the argument that if a pistol was not phyiscally on your person, it needed to be locked up???? (that question is being argued in court right now)
    I'm sorry but that dog just don't hunt. We are talking about a grown man leaving his kids in a car with an unsecured gun. Its kind of like dumping gasoline on his little girl, and then giving his son a bic lighter, and saying I'll be right back.

  23. #23
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Part of my job as a parent is to keep my children safe. Some things are not preventable, this was. As an officer he should know that he needs to lock the firearm up when left unattended around children. He failed his kids.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Such harsh judgments, be careful in wishing for strong judgments someday you may face the other side of the coin.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Hmm... tricky position to be in. What will sending him to jail really accomplish? There are 2 young kids who have lost their sister, who will now wonder where there daddy is. You are turning a family, into a single mother household. I guarantee you that Derek has gotten the message, he has no lessons to be learned by going to jail.

    I lost a child last year, though no fault of my own, it's a devestating ordeal. If it had been my fault, I can only imagine the pain involved.

    I'm not saying that he shouldn't face reprecussions for what he did. He should lose the badge, do some community service, or something else. Sending him to jail will just further hurt the innocent victims in this tradgedy.

    Scott
    So you wold advocate just punishing those that don't suffer a personal loss due to their actions. Only punish those that harm others?

    Somehow I don't think having dual standards works in a fair legal system.

    If this Officer doesn't deserve jail time, what about the driver who drives while $-Faced and kills a family member?

    The problem with our Justice System today is that there is less and less certainty of punishment and thus more and more who figure "so what, I'll never be punished!"

    Same law for this individual as for every one of us. He was negligent and that negligence caused a death. If the Jury convicts him than he should pay the penalty called for under the law. Maybe the next person will put the gun in their holster rather than leave it in a coffee cup holder for their child to play with.

    So far the Prosecutor has pointed out that their were other viable storage options that could have been locked, like a glove box or console.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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