ethorman
Regular Member
Honestly I have found the OKOCA letters too businesses have worked pretty well so far. In have dropped off two and both businesses now are allowing OC. Now to work on our local mall...:banghead:
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Open carry protest
- Thread starter Robert318
- Start date
Glock 1st fan
Regular Member
Ok I am going to give just my opinion here and take it for what its worth. My opinion is derived from years of law enforcement experience, several training scenarios and real life observations......
Using a fake gun in a holster will actually do very little to encourage a change of mind in a business owners eyes and in fact may serve to worsen the situation as the owners may take it as a mockery of their business practices. Carrying a firearm comes with real life consequences that a toy gun can actually make worse.
Suppose you are in the store and a robbery occurs. Should the robber see you in possesion of a firearm he may very well target you out. This is not a for certain scenario yet it is a real possibility. Firearms carry with them a lot of weight and responsibility and in some rare instances have changed peoples minds about carrying them when they are confronted with the liability concerns that could possibly come with them. Instances such as misuse or lack of good judgement when the decision to use deadly force is made.
There have been historically police officers who would use fake firearms and attempt to get by with out the department knowing because they had pawned them or sold them. One instance comes to mind when we used revolvers that one guy placed his money in rolled up form in his cylnders where he only had 2 live rounds and 4 cylnders of money. His excuse was it was the only place he could hide money his wife would not find.
A security company decided it wanted to offer armed guards but the insurance was too high. So it took toy guns and issued them to the officers to serve as a deterent. It wasnt very long before people got hurt and law suits rang out from false representation of services and false sense of security.
I strongly suggest if your going to be an ambassador of firearms rights you need to be positive about it. Dont go in being macho and going to change the world. I use the idea that I cant change a businesses mind about allowing firearms but I can promise you that the bill collectors can.
Using a fake gun in a holster will actually do very little to encourage a change of mind in a business owners eyes and in fact may serve to worsen the situation as the owners may take it as a mockery of their business practices. Carrying a firearm comes with real life consequences that a toy gun can actually make worse.
Suppose you are in the store and a robbery occurs. Should the robber see you in possesion of a firearm he may very well target you out. This is not a for certain scenario yet it is a real possibility. Firearms carry with them a lot of weight and responsibility and in some rare instances have changed peoples minds about carrying them when they are confronted with the liability concerns that could possibly come with them. Instances such as misuse or lack of good judgement when the decision to use deadly force is made.
There have been historically police officers who would use fake firearms and attempt to get by with out the department knowing because they had pawned them or sold them. One instance comes to mind when we used revolvers that one guy placed his money in rolled up form in his cylnders where he only had 2 live rounds and 4 cylnders of money. His excuse was it was the only place he could hide money his wife would not find.
A security company decided it wanted to offer armed guards but the insurance was too high. So it took toy guns and issued them to the officers to serve as a deterent. It wasnt very long before people got hurt and law suits rang out from false representation of services and false sense of security.
I strongly suggest if your going to be an ambassador of firearms rights you need to be positive about it. Dont go in being macho and going to change the world. I use the idea that I cant change a businesses mind about allowing firearms but I can promise you that the bill collectors can.
rpyne
Regular Member
This is the most overused, thoroughly debunked claim of the anti open carry crowd there is. This claim has been used and challenged for years and no one has been able to document a single instance of this happening to a non-LEO/security carrier.
That said, I completely agree that carrying a fake gun is a bad idea.
Last edited:
Glock 1st fan
Regular Member
Very much true in the event a person had a REAL firearm it would be a matter of who had the best element of surprise. But if your sitting in a store with a FAKE gun in a holster it would only be a matter of time before the criminal spotted you and he would not know the difference. In the event it was a real firearm it would still be a very real possibility however not a likely one. You cant rule out a possibility simply because it never came to light.
In those instances we never felt Pearl Harbor could have been attacked from the air. We still believed the battleship would be the ultimate showdown weapon of the sea. We never believed 911 could happen because we were too far away from terrorist. I am not saying people should fear being the first target in a gun fight simply because they have a weapon and in no way do I believe its as serious as the media and anti gun crowd believe either. But the simple truth is is we believe it cant and wont happen simply because it never has we are doomed to eventually have it happen.
When you carry a firearm like I said you have to be prepared for the worst. Its not carrying to look cool and its not carrying because we can. It should be we carry because we value our lives and prepare ourselves in EVERY way possible. I encourage people to get more training when they get a carry permit. Ive been in gun fights where I can promise its not glorious like movies make it out to be and its not the man with the biggest gun wins. Its life on the line and your body reacts accordingly. The only true way you can prepare yourself is to constantly train and mentally focus on each and every what if.
Ive seen some people since the open carry passed use it as a ward robe. Dressing like they are from the old west and carrying six shooters. I just wish people would respect the firearms for what they are which most do by the way. No matter how one looks cool or makes a statement in the end the firearm is a utensil designed specifically for taking a life. Preferably in defense of ones own life.