Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Wells Fargo takes anti firearms stance

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604

    Wells Fargo takes anti firearms stance

    BMADDOX ENTERPRISES recently decided to expand operations by purchasing a new building, trying to capitalize on the industry's continued growth, especially with the oil field boom in western North Dakota near their location. Application was made at a local Wells Fargo bank for a business loan for a new building acquisition. With a sterling credit record, no personal or business debt and a sound business plan, the loan approval looked to be a no brainer, until it was discovered this business was part of the firearms industry. BMADDOX ENTERPRISES holds two Federal Firearms Licenses and two Class 3 SOT licenses for selling firearms, with locations in both SD and ND.


    Vice President of Business Banking at Wells Fargo, called Friday Nov 2nd to alert Mr. Maddox, owner of BMADDOX ENTERPRISES, that Wells Fargo would not extend business credit or loans to any firearms related business, period. "Your credit is impeccable and your business model is sound, but our corporate legal department will not allow us to extend credit to any business related to firearms. We understand you are fully licensed under federal and state law, although…the corporate directive is still no."


    PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1sJzf)
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-09-2012 at 09:38 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    BMADDOX ENTERPRISES recently decided to expand operations by purchasing a new building, trying to capitalize on the industry's continued growth, especially with the oil field boom in western North Dakota near their location. Application was made at a local Wells Fargo bank for a business loan for a new building acquisition. With a sterling credit record, no personal or business debt and a sound business plan, the loan approval looked to be a no brainer, until it was discovered this business was part of the firearms industry. BMADDOX ENTERPRISES holds two Federal Firearms Licenses and two Class 3 SOT licenses for selling firearms, with locations in both SD and ND.


    Vice President of Business Banking at Wells Fargo, called Friday Nov 2nd to alert Mr. Maddox, owner of BMADDOX ENTERPRISES, that Wells Fargo would not extend business credit or loans to any firearms related business, period. "Your credit is impeccable and your business model is sound, but our corporate legal department will not allow us to extend credit to any business related to firearms. We understand you are fully licensed under federal and state law, although…the corporate directive is still no."


    PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1sJzf)
    Wow, take that letter and get approval from competition. I would think North Dakota is a fairly fire arm friendly place, I am sure folks their would like to find out about Wells Fargo's stance.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063

    Wells Fargo takes anti firearms stance

    Jeez, now I gotta figure out how to refinance the remaining amount on my mortgage. It ain't much, but I won't bank with Wells Fargo.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  4. #4
    Regular Member Carry a Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Sioux City IA
    Posts
    10

    Take business someplace else..

    I saw this about Wells Fargo over 6mo ago. IMHO they are idiots. I have done business with them through my job and they constantly give us false information.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    I wonder if their lawyers know something about the firearms industry others don't, like whether there is going to be a business crunch from government over-regulation or something.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I wonder if their lawyers know something about the firearms industry others don't, like whether there is going to be a business crunch from government over-regulation or something.
    Interesting point.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    This is nothing new, it's even been discussed here before.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    7

    Wells Fargo does not prohibit lending to firearms-related businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    BMADDOX ENTERPRISES recently decided to expand operations by purchasing a new building, trying to capitalize on the industry's continued growth, especially with the oil field boom in western North Dakota near their location. Application was made at a local Wells Fargo bank for a business loan for a new building acquisition. With a sterling credit record, no personal or business debt and a sound business plan, the loan approval looked to be a no brainer, until it was discovered this business was part of the firearms industry. BMADDOX ENTERPRISES holds two Federal Firearms Licenses and two Class 3 SOT licenses for selling firearms, with locations in both SD and ND.


    Vice President of Business Banking at Wells Fargo, called Friday Nov 2nd to alert Mr. Maddox, owner of BMADDOX ENTERPRISES, that Wells Fargo would not extend business credit or loans to any firearms related business, period. "Your credit is impeccable and your business model is sound, but our corporate legal department will not allow us to extend credit to any business related to firearms. We understand you are fully licensed under federal and state law, although…the corporate directive is still no."


    PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1sJzf)
    My name is Gabe Boehmer, and I'm a Wells Fargo spokesman. I appreciate the opportunity to comment directly to friends of OpenCarry.org about the post quoted above. The customer’s claim above that Wells Fargo rejected his request for credit based solely on the industry he’s in is simply untrue. We do not have a credit policy that prohibits financing for arms or armaments. In fact, Wells Fargo has several relationships with business banking and commercial banking borrowers in firearms-related industries. In this particular case, the customer requested a type of credit with terms we don’t offer. We discussed other options with the customer, which he declined.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Boehmer View Post
    My name is Gabe Boehmer, and I'm a Wells Fargo spokesman. I appreciate the opportunity to comment directly to friends of OpenCarry.org about the post quoted above. The customer’s claim above that Wells Fargo rejected his request for credit based solely on the industry he’s in is simply untrue. We do not have a credit policy that prohibits financing for arms or armaments. In fact, Wells Fargo has several relationships with business banking and commercial banking borrowers in firearms-related industries. In this particular case, the customer requested a type of credit with terms we don’t offer. We discussed other options with the customer, which he declined.
    Thanks for setting the record straight.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Boehmer View Post
    My name is Gabe Boehmer, and I'm a Wells Fargo spokesman. I appreciate the opportunity to comment directly to friends of OpenCarry.org about the post quoted above. The customer’s claim above that Wells Fargo rejected his request for credit based solely on the industry he’s in is simply untrue. We do not have a credit policy that prohibits financing for arms or armaments. In fact, Wells Fargo has several relationships with business banking and commercial banking borrowers in firearms-related industries. In this particular case, the customer requested a type of credit with terms we don’t offer. We discussed other options with the customer, which he declined.
    THANK YOU.

    I've been with Wells Fargo for over 20 years. I hadn't gotten around to verifying the story yet, but I would have before doing anything.

    I was skeptical because I openly carry in Wells Fargo. I closed my accounts with NorWest bank (nee PriMerit, nee First Interstate) in Las Vegas when they put up "No Guns" signs on the door. I reopened my account after Wells Fargo took over and the signs came down.

    Now that you've gone through all the trouble to sign up and post here, Gabe, WELCOME to OCDO. I'm just a lowly local member in NV with no official capacity, but I'm sure we'd love to have you stick around and tell us about yourself and join the community as a responsible businessman, whether you carry (yet) or not.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Mr Boehmer, how the hell did you find this thread ?
    Just google his banks name. I doubt there is a PR department today that does not do that.

    I once googled a 4th Amendment subject, and the second darn return was one of my own posts.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Thanks for setting the record straight.
    Thanks for reading our side of the story, Citizen.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    THANK YOU.

    I've been with Wells Fargo for over 20 years. I hadn't gotten around to verifying the story yet, but I would have before doing anything.

    I was skeptical because I openly carry in Wells Fargo. I closed my accounts with NorWest bank (nee PriMerit, nee First Interstate) in Las Vegas when they put up "No Guns" signs on the door. I reopened my account after Wells Fargo took over and the signs came down.

    Now that you've gone through all the trouble to sign up and post here, Gabe, WELCOME to OCDO. I'm just a lowly local member in NV with no official capacity, but I'm sure we'd love to have you stick around and tell us about yourself and join the community as a responsible businessman, whether you carry (yet) or not.
    Wells Fargo appreciates your business, MAC702. Thanks for the hospitality, and I would be happy to to stick around. If you all are interested, I know a Wells Fargo historian who would be interested in discussions about Wells Fargo stagecoach shotguns.

  14. #14
    Regular Member darkside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    spokane wa
    Posts
    34

    devils advocate

    Not trying to be arguementative here, but didnt you say that your job at Wells Fargo is as a spokesperson? Wouldnt that mean by definition that your job is to try and spin a story so your employer is seen in a better light? As i said, im not trying to start a fight or take sides in this disscusion but i have found that the truth sometimes lies between both sides of the story.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by darkside View Post
    Not trying to be arguementative here, but didnt you say that your job at Wells Fargo is as a spokesperson? Wouldnt that mean by definition that your job is to try and spin a story so your employer is seen in a better light? As i said, im not trying to start a fight or take sides in this disscusion but i have found that the truth sometimes lies between both sides of the story.
    My experience has led me to treat new posters at face value until either: research proves them wrong, or they start contradicting themselves when asked questions. I gain nothing by voicing suspicions before there is something solid to be suspicious about. Unless of course the initial post is so outlandish that it itself can be rejected outright; but I have to be careful about even those because sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. And, where voicing suspicions before there is something solid about which to be suspicious gains nothing, it actually makes me look bad if the poster is proven right.

    Of course, treating a poster at face value does not mean I have to accept and believe what he wrote without reservation. If I have any doubts, I keep them to myself.

    Also, being nice and treating a poster at face value has the added advantage that if the poster is trying to pull something, he won't realize he's under suspicion until its too late to retract and effectively counter-argue.

    And, besides, its classy to be nice.

    Notice also that even Mr. Boehmer's response to me was carefully couched. He thanked me for reading his side of the story. He didn't acknowledge any more than could be deduced from my reply, factoring in that I could be merely glibly polite without actually mentally accepting his report. He knows the deal on these things. He knows his statement is not necessarily going to be accepted hook-line-and-sinker. If he's not a PR man, I'd be very surprised.

    --------------------------------

    If you want to look into it in this case, a little research could turn up something. The first thing that pops to mind is googling his unusual name and see if he is really a spokesman for Wells Fargo. Also, you could contact the original subject, if there is a website, and request a copy of the loan refusal letter, or research the original subject and see if they have a history of false or twisted statements, etc., etc. Of course, after a certain point, who cares? The effort becomes not worth it. If Gabe is lying, the next gun range that seeks a loan will spread the story. And, its not like all Wells Fargo customers who are also OCers withdrawing their accounts is going to amount to a blip on Wells Fargo's balance sheet.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-15-2012 at 03:32 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Boomboy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    140

    In need of a new bank. I'll give WF a look.

    Well, after being out west for a few months, I have decided to close my PNC account back east because there are no local branches, and some things just can't be done easily or quickly by mail, or even electronically. Of course, when I visit the local branch to open my account, rest assured I will be open carrying. I will let you guys know how things shake out.

    Thanks for the clarification, Gabe.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Boehmer View Post
    My name is Gabe Boehmer, and I'm a Wells Fargo spokesman. I appreciate the opportunity to comment directly to friends of OpenCarry.org about the post quoted above. The customer’s claim above that Wells Fargo rejected his request for credit based solely on the industry he’s in is simply untrue. We do not have a credit policy that prohibits financing for arms or armaments. In fact, Wells Fargo has several relationships with business banking and commercial banking borrowers in firearms-related industries. In this particular case, the customer requested a type of credit with terms we don’t offer. We discussed other options with the customer, which he declined.
    Pardon my skepticism, but what businesses, and what are those relationships?

    This is not the first instance I have heard of Wells Fargo turning down loans to gun-related businesses, so I tend to believe the OP's story. However, I'd like to give you a chance to support your contention before I move my mortgage.

    If you cite privacy, I suggest you contact those businesses and get their permission to provide a few verifiable details.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    My experience has led me to treat new posters at face value until either: research proves them wrong, or they start contradicting themselves when asked questions. I gain nothing by voicing suspicions before there is something solid to be suspicious about. Unless of course the initial post is so outlandish that it itself can be rejected outright; but I have to be careful about even those because sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. And, where voicing suspicions before there is something solid about which to be suspicious gains nothing, it actually makes me look bad if the poster is proven right.

    Of course, treating a poster at face value does not mean I have to accept and believe what he wrote without reservation. If I have any doubts, I keep them to myself.

    Also, being nice and treating a poster at face value has the added advantage that if the poster is trying to pull something, he won't realize he's under suspicion until its too late to retract and effectively counter-argue.

    And, besides, its classy to be nice.

    Notice also that even Mr. Boehmer's response to me was carefully couched. He thanked me for reading his side of the story. He didn't acknowledge any more than could be deduced from my reply, factoring in that I could be merely glibly polite without actually mentally accepting his report. He knows the deal on these things. He knows his statement is not necessarily going to be accepted hook-line-and-sinker. If he's not a PR man, I'd be very surprised.

    --------------------------------

    If you want to look into it in this case, a little research could turn up something. The first thing that pops to mind is googling his unusual name and see if he is really a spokesman for Wells Fargo. Also, you could contact the original subject, if there is a website, and request a copy of the loan refusal letter, or research the original subject and see if they have a history of false or twisted statements, etc., etc. Of course, after a certain point, who cares? The effort becomes not worth it. If Gabe is lying, the next gun range that seeks a loan will spread the story. And, its not like all Wells Fargo customers who are also OCers withdrawing their accounts is going to amount to a blip on Wells Fargo's balance sheet.
    Publicly available information does confirm that he is who and what he purports to be.

    For future reference:
    https://www.wellsfargo.com/press/201...stInternetBank
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-15-2012 at 08:17 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member darkside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    spokane wa
    Posts
    34
    As I said, i was not taking sides, just clarifying his job. Since the reported incident with McMillan and Bank of America, I have been careful abuot who i belive in news stories regarding buisnessesss. In this case the op provided a link to the story but its only source was the company denied the loan from the company owned website. Not the most stellar source for info. For all we know the company could have gone in to apply for a loan they knew would be denied just to stir up publicity. As for me, i give every post the same amount of skepticism. Plus i have often been called the anti-pc. I speak my mind and dam any ones feelings, i dont care. The truth is more important than feelings.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,604
    Quote Originally Posted by darkside View Post
    --snip-- As for me, i give every post the same amount of skepticism. Plus i have often been called the anti-pc. I speak my mind and dam any ones feelings, i dont care. The truth is more important than feelings.
    Unless you have something to sell, and you don't want to negatively influence anyone.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Boehmer View Post
    My name is Gabe Boehmer, and I'm a Wells Fargo spokesman. I appreciate the opportunity to comment directly to friends of OpenCarry.org about the post quoted above. The customer’s claim above that Wells Fargo rejected his request for credit based solely on the industry he’s in is simply untrue. We do not have a credit policy that prohibits financing for arms or armaments. In fact, Wells Fargo has several relationships with business banking and commercial banking borrowers in firearms-related industries. In this particular case, the customer requested a type of credit with terms we don’t offer. We discussed other options with the customer, which he declined.
    Gabe,

    I appreciate you coming here to try and resolve this matter.

    Please address this:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...178065871.html

    Vice President of Business Banking at Wells Fargo, called Friday Nov 2nd to alert Mr. Maddox, owner of BMADDOX ENTERPRISES, that Wells Fargo would not extend business credit or loans to any firearms related business, period. "Your credit is impeccable and your business model is sound, but our corporate legal department will not allow us to extend credit to any business related to firearms. We understand you are fully licensed under federal and state law, although…the corporate directive is still no."
    We seem to have opposing statements. Mr. Maddox has, to some extent, had his assertions vetted by a significant number of bloggers.

    Please accept this as an opportunity to provide information that would tend to substantiate your claims over those of Mr. Maddox. Until that happens I see this as more of a "he said/she said) than anything else - although there is some material out there saying that what he said has veracity.

    stay safe.

    edited to add: info on BMaddox Enterrprises

    http://www.ffl123.com/ - yes, he has a web presence where he tries to sell you his program of how to get your FFL at your home address. Yes, there are some folks who are not happy with that business. That, however, does not seem to have anything to do with the issue at hand.
    maddox Enterprises LLC
    South Dakota Firearms
    27308 Meadow Ridge Rd
    Harrisburg, SD 57032
    (605) 254-2811 (Phone)

    FFL License: 3 - 46 - XXX - XX - XX - 00842
    FFL License Type: 07 - Manufacturer
    License Expires: 01/01/2014

    Last edited by skidmark; 11-15-2012 at 06:04 PM. Reason: adding info
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    *crickets chirping*

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    *crickets chirping*
    Let me make sure I understand this. You gave him fourteen minutes to respond, and then we he didn't you posted "crickets"? ORLY?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063

    Wells Fargo takes anti firearms stance

    Try 12 hours. RIF.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Try 12 hours. RIF.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

    <o>
    I see. I was counting from Skidmark's comment immediately preceding yours. My apologies.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •