Video share: When should you shoot a "cop"

It is also good from time to time to post the actual quotes in their context.

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty...(Quotation)

"I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate. What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion.[1] The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted." - Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Paris, 13 Nov. 1787

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Jefferson was saying that even if a rebellion is started in error, it is a good thing. I must disagree with him there. If anyone enters into a rebellion, they need to be damned sure that they are essentially right in the facts. King George abused us for years and repeated attempts were made to remedy the situation before the Founders watered that tree. At the time of the watering, they pledged their lives and fortunes to what was illegal until and unless they won. Thank God they won.

When posters here call for revolution, explicitly or implicitly, they need to remember that.

eye95 said:

It is also good from time to time to post the actual quotes in their context.

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty...(Quotation)



Jefferson was saying that even if a rebellion is started in error, it is a good thing. I must disagree with him there. If anyone enters into a rebellion, they need to be damned sure that they are essentially right in the facts. King George abused us for years and repeated attempts were made to remedy the situation before the Founders watered that tree. At the time of the watering, they pledged their lives and fortunes to what was illegal until and unless they won. Thank God they won.

When posters here call for revolution, explicitly or implicitly, they need to remember that.

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Oh! Finally! I have longed for the opportunity to meet the man wiser than Jefferson! At last my heartfelt prayers are answered!

Give me a break, Eye. Jefferson says right in the letter that the people cannot all and always be well informed. And, in the face of propagandizing media and lying government you expect them to be essentially damn sure in their facts?

Oh, and there's a difference between rebellion and revolution.

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Its government! It is always seeking more power, always infringing and denying liberties. A rebellion would be very likely legitimate without any facts in view. Even if the people don't know what the government or is up to, the government does.

PistolPackingMomma said:

Larken Rose



He also did a video at Porcfest this year

[video=youtube;gBFObM5njIw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBFObM5njIw[/video]

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Thanks for the info learn something new every day.

PistolPackingMomma said:

Larken Rose



He also did a video at Porcfest this year

[video=youtube;gBFObM5njIw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBFObM5njIw[/video]

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Sounds like a real nutjob to me. hmmm first he gets sent to prison for being a tax cheat, now he's glorifying killing police officers. hmmm

EMNofSeattle said:

Sounds like a real nutjob to me. hmmm first he gets sent to prison for being a tax cheat, now he's glorifying killing police officers. hmmm

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The founding fathers were smugglers and tax cheats. Just something to think about.

sudden valley gunner said:

The founding fathers were smugglers and tax cheats. Just something to think about.

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During a time in which they were engaged in active rebellion against the crown, and they won. Rose Larken can claim no such feat.

Remember too that after the American Revolution President Washington used the militia to attack and arrest whiskey distillers who thought the whiskey tax didn't apply to them....

sudden valley gunner said:

The founding fathers were smugglers and tax cheats. Just something to think about.

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Jesus would have been too, if he was real.

EMNofSeattle said:

During a time in which they were engaged in active rebellion against the crown, and they won. Rose Larken can claim no such feat.

Remember too that after the American Revolution President Washington used the militia to attack and arrest whiskey distillers who thought the whiskey tax didn't apply to them....

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So fresh from state education, now please educate yourself with non state approved politically incorrect history.

The court case that sparked the "revolution" was one while they were still British subjects, the jury refused to convict the smuggler.

The whole history of the colonies are full of tax avoidance and smuggling, the navigation acts were constantly being ignored by many of the colonies.

Research why the Nationalist George Washington attacked those specific tax avoiders and not the larger more stronger ones. Just because Washington did it don't make it right.

I must ask why are you so willing to call someone a tax cheat for taking a stand against his wages being stolen (note I said wages not income, the supreme court has defined what the definition of income is and that case has not been overturned). Why do you feel it is justifiable to take a mans earnings and give it to causes he may not agree with?

Freedom1Man said:

Jesus would have been too, if he was real.

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I believe the carpenter turned Jewish philosopher was a real person, and then he was put to death at a fairly young age. Like many other religious philosophers had some great principles, most of which are echoed in the majority of religions.

Many do take his "give Caesar's things to Caesar" comment out of context though, this was a trap question set forth by the Jewish religious leaders looking for a way to have the Romans do away with this rebel, he shrewdly avoided their trap with his answer. And if you were to look at it from another angle we should only give back to Caesar that which we receive from Caesar which wouldn't be our means of living.

EMNofSeattle said:

Sounds like a real nutjob to me. hmmm first he gets sent to prison for being a tax cheat, now he's glorifying killing police officers. hmmm

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Begging our overlords to please stop cheating us doesn't work, and he genuinely believed the income tax wasn't valid due to a legal loophole. He chose to act on his convictions, rather than simply whining into his beer and doing nothing, like so many men do nowadays. Of course the government wouldn't let him get away with that; whether he was right or wrong. He was punished to teach him and similar thinkers a lesson; "Don't you dare question our authority over you!!!" And if you actually watched the video, he did not "glorify" killing cops.

EMNofSeattle said:

During a time in which they were engaged in active rebellion against the crown, and they won. Rose Larken can claim no such feat.

Remember too that after the American Revolution President Washington used the militia to attack and arrest whiskey distillers who thought the whiskey tax didn't apply to them....

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So since Larken Rose hasn't achieved the same measure of success as the Founding Fathers, his efforts have no merit??? And you do know WHY Washington used the militia against the distillers, right? To gather money for paying back the massive debt of the war, by force. Viva le liberte? :uhoh:

ETA~

Perhaps you should read this quote a few times until the meaning sinks in:

"“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”

sudden valley gunner said:

I believe the carpenter turned Jewish philosopher was a real person, and then he was put to death at a fairly young age. Like many other religious philosophers had some great principles, most of which are echoed in the majority of religions.

Many do take his "give Caesar's things to Caesar" comment out of context though, this was a trap question set forth by the Jewish religious leaders looking for a way to have the Romans do away with this rebel, he shrewdly avoided their trap with his answer. And if you were to look at it from another angle we should only give back to Caesar that which we receive from Caesar which wouldn't be our means of living.

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First off if he did exist, he was an architect not a carpenter.
Second off he was not Jewish.
Third if he did exist then Philo would surely have mentioned him seeing as how they were both hanging out with some of the same people. That is, if he was worth writing about at all.


http://youtu.be/m_zytOaQxYg < I believe explains the "Jesus" story very well.

PistolPackingMomma said:

"“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”

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Very Very true.

So he's a tax cheat!

PistolPackingMomma said:

Begging our overlords to please stop cheating us doesn't work, and he genuinely believed the income tax wasn't valid due to a legal loophole. He chose to act on his convictions, rather than simply whining into his beer and doing nothing, like so many men do nowadays. Of course the government wouldn't let him get away with that; whether he was right or wrong. He was punished to teach him and similar thinkers a lesson; "Don't you dare question our authority over you!!!" And if you actually watched the video, he did not "glorify" killing cops.

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So he was looking for a loophole? who uses "loopholes".... cheaters use loopholes....

As far as believing the income tax wasn't valid, I don't care if he genuinely believed it wasn't valid, you can be genuinely wrong. The IRS doesn't just throw people in jail for not filing a return, they make every attempt to collect first. So he was likely informed more then once by the IRS he was wrong and he would be prosecuted, now if a government agency told me I was breaking the law and if I didn't knock it off they'd prosecute me, I'd go talk to a lawyer and see what's up. any good attorney or accountant would've told him that his 861 arguments were pure legal gibberish. Not only was he refusing to pay taxes, he was SELLING VIDEOS telling others about his shoddy research, thus he was attempting to trick other people into breaking the law with him. His argument was false and he got burned. Not one person has successfully battled prosecution for tax evasion on an 861 argument like Rose's. Not even 1.

let this sink in
"Sometimes it's dangerous to be right when the established authorities are the ones who are wrong"


I don't think it's right to sit here benefiting from our society without paying your fair share. If you want to live in a society with no
>Courts
>Police
>Public Health
>Environmental protection
>Workplace safety
>Roads
>Infrastructure
>Clean and affordable public water supplies
>Airports
>Parks
>Food and drug safety and health regulations
>Social Services
>Military
>Museums
>Libraries
>Postal Service
>Census
>Hospitals
>Mental Health
>Fibre optic phone lines
>rural internet access
>professional Fire Departments
>public transportation
>K-12 education
>Universities
> Colleges
>professional licensing
>Ports
> Railroads

And on and on and on, then please feel free to move to some country in Africa where you have none of that and no tax burden. Somalia is not the country I want to live in, if you and mr Rose want to make us into Somalia, I have better idea, just move to somalia, I'm certain they have no evil immigration and customs system in place since they have no real central government, so moving there should be as easy and coming over and settin your bags down, and because there's no ATF to worry about, you can own all the machine guns and RPGs you want with no government oversight whatsoever, did I mention no "official" taxation? (your local warlord may want some of what you have, ******* him off is not advisable, but hey there's no courts or cops to abuse your rights! so just pay your warlord because he won't let any system of justice ever take away your freedoms!)

I hate the phrase "fair share." That's Obama BS! There is the lawfully required amount, not the "fair share."

Freedom1Man said:

First off if he did exist, he was an architect not a carpenter.
Second off he was not Jewish.
Third if he did exist then Philo would surely have mentioned him seeing as how they were both hanging out with some of the same people. That is, if he was worth writing about at all.


http://youtu.be/m_zytOaQxYg < I believe explains the "Jesus" story very well.

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Freedom1Man,

What difference does it make, in the context of this thread, whether Jesus exists or not? Are we concerned with who the cop will meet after he is shot? Are we concerned with the salvation of the shooter? Probably not. I think most of us have our present and future liberty as a concern regardless of our religion... yes?

You wouldn't be attempting a diversion...perhaps inadvertently?

EMNofSeattle said:

So he was looking for a loophole? who uses "loopholes".... cheaters use loopholes....

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Asking this question indicates that you have a layman's understanding of the law. "Loophole" is simply a way of the uneducated to describe a matter in law that they don't understand... or a way they can be miss-led by lack of education.

To give an example: The "Gun Show" loophole. Do a search of this term and you will understand "loophole".

georg jetson said:

Asking this question indicates that you have a layman's understanding of the law. "Loophole" is simply a way of the uneducated to describe a matter in law that they don't understand... or a way they can be miss-led by lack of education.

To give an example: The "Gun Show" loophole. Do a search of this term and you will understand "loophole".

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Loophole is when you use the exact wording of a law to break the intent of the law. for example during the 1970s Ford began importing Mazda trucks badged as the "Courier" and Chevy was importing Isuzus badged as the "LUV" There is a huge import tax on light trucks, so ford and GM imported the cab and frame of the trucks separately from the bed, and with 4 bolts and 30 minutes the truck was now ready to sell without paying truck tax

The gun show loophole is not a "loophole" because private sales are specifically authorized in the GCA and the laws of the majority of states. That is not a loophole. bad example.

EMNofSeattle said:

I don't think it's right to sit here benefiting from our society without paying your fair share. If you want to live in a society with no
>Courts
>Police
>Public Health
>Environmental protection
>Workplace safety
>Roads
>Infrastructure
>Clean and affordable public water supplies
>Airports
>Parks
>Food and drug safety and health regulations
>Social Services
>Military
>Museums
>Libraries
>Postal Service
>Census
>Hospitals
>Mental Health
>Fibre optic phone lines
>rural internet access
>professional Fire Departments
>public transportation
>K-12 education
>Universities
> Colleges
>professional licensing
>Ports
> Railroads

And on and on and on, then please feel free to move to some country in Africa where you have none of that and no tax burden. Somalia is not the country I want to live in, if you and mr Rose want to make us into Somalia, I have better idea, just move to somalia, I'm certain they have no evil immigration and customs system in place since they have no real central government, so moving there should be as easy and coming over and settin your bags down, and because there's no ATF to worry about, you can own all the machine guns and RPGs you want with no government oversight whatsoever, did I mention no "official" taxation? (your local warlord may want some of what you have, ******* him off is not advisable, but hey there's no courts or cops to abuse your rights! so just pay your warlord because he won't let any system of justice ever take away your freedoms!)

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I'm willing to bet a free-market could provide those services cheaper, and at a higher quality.

Take a look at this book on how the privatization of roads might work:

http://library.mises.org/books/Walter%20Block/The%20Privatization%20of%20Roads%20and%20Highways.pdf

ETA -

Response to your idea about moving to Somalia:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...he-anarchist&p=1820979&viewfull=1#post1820979

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...he-anarchist&p=1821296&viewfull=1#post1821296

EMNofSeattle said:

Loophole is when you use the exact wording of a law to break the intent of the law. for example during the 1970s Ford began importing Mazda trucks badged as the "Courier" and Chevy was importing Isuzus badged as the "LUV" There is a huge import tax on light trucks, so ford and GM imported the cab and frame of the trucks separately from the bed, and with 4 bolts and 30 minutes the truck was now ready to sell without paying truck tax

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I was trying to indicate that "loophole" has no legal definition. You may define it as you like, but we are a nation of laws. Your example simply shows that government intervention can be absurd. If your example is factual, Ford and GM did the honorable thing. They obeyed the law and still found a way to minimize costs.

EMNofSeattle said:

The gun show loophole is not a "loophole" because private sales are specifically authorized in the GCA and the laws of the majority of states. That is not a loophole. bad example.

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Again, you can define loophole any way you wish, but it has no meaning in law. In this case it's simply a matter of you arguing that your definition of loophole is "correct". Why should I care how you define "loophole" when I don't care how the anti-gunner's define loophole? Indeed, it is meaningless term when considering the law.

What we should care about? ...the IRS steals our money at gun point. If you don't think they do, then you have not contributed your "fair share".

EMNofSeattle said:

SNIP
I don't think it's right to sit here benefiting from our society without paying your fair share. If you want to live in a society with no
>Courts
>Police
>Public Health
>Environmental protection
>Workplace safety
>Roads
>Infrastructure
>Clean and affordable public water supplies
>Airports
>Parks
>Food and drug safety and health regulations
>Social Services
>Military
>Museums
>Libraries
>Postal Service
>Census
>Hospitals
>Mental Health
>Fibre optic phone lines
>rural internet access
>professional Fire Departments
>public transportation
>K-12 education
>Universities
> Colleges
>professional licensing
>Ports
> Railroads

SNIP

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The federal government has been given NO authority to be involved in...

>Public Health
>Environmental protection
>Workplace safety
>Roads
>Clean and affordable public water supplies
>Airports
>Parks
>Food and drug safety and health regulations
>Social Services
>Museums
>Libraries
>Hospitals
>Mental Health
>Fibre optic phone lines
>rural internet access
>professional Fire Departments
>public transportation
>K-12 education
>Universities
>Colleges
>professional licensing
>Ports
>Railroads

If you think they do, then you are either purposefully, or mis-led into, stealing from me. Of course, it's a loophole so...