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Thread: Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    With marijuana growing strong support in the states while maintaining strong opposition on the federal level, it's only a matter of time before the fed either repeal prohibition on it or face a serious dust off with the states over it.

    With Obama in office, one would assume that repeal of prohibition is more likely. Hopefully that is wrong. Obama has certainly in the past gone hard after marijuana, even the state legal dispensaries. So who knows.

    Point is, if the federal persecution of state legal marijuana continues, then the states will need to stand up and so something about it.

    This would be the best opportunity to call for the repeal of the commerce clause we may have ever had.

    Ergo, we should be teaming up with the marijuana guys to call for a convention with the objective of repealing the commerce clause.

    Thoughts?

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    For the most part, I think a lot of gun owners are coming around the idea of legalizing marijuana. It's just the staunch, police state loving, Republican supporters that don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post

    Ergo, we should be teaming up with the marijuana guys to call for a convention with the objective of repealing the commerce clause.

    Thoughts?

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
    Repeal the commerce clause? YEAH!

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    -Secede from the government at an individual level
    -Hold massive civil disobedience "demonstations"
    -Ignore the government out of existence

    Of course, lots of minds must be opened first.

    Is every able body doing their part to chip away at statist mentalities to be able to start planting seeds of peace and freedom?

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Let's Move On!

    My thoughts are as follows: Teaming up with the marijuana folks to repeal the commerce clause will be an exercise in futility. If the situation were reversed, do you think the marijuana folks would even consider to team up with us? It won't be two groups combining to be stronger, but in my opinion, becoming weaker. Let's try to get rid of the commerce clause the old fashioned way. It is my opinion that your suggestion would lead to greater frustration on our part and in the process, we would waste valuable resources. Nevertheless, keep making suggestions. The good ones will survive and thrive.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    The commerce cause will never be repealed. It empowers the fed to do absolutely anything it wants.
    I remember when I was younger someone was teaching about some of the uses of this commerce. I truly, honestly thought he was lying. The use of the clause was so obviously used in a way never intended. I thought "people would never allow that".....
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Re: Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    My thoughts are as follows: Teaming up with the marijuana folks to repeal the commerce clause will be an exercise in futility. If the situation were reversed, do you think the marijuana folks would even consider to team up with us? It won't be two groups combining to be stronger, but in my opinion, becoming weaker. Let's try to get rid of the commerce clause the old fashioned way. It is my opinion that your suggestion would lead to greater frustration on our part and in the process, we would waste valuable resources. Nevertheless, keep making suggestions. The good ones will survive and thrive.
    There are many pro-cannabis people that are pro-firearm too. Unfotunately, considering the stigma that's wrongly applied to most pro-cannabis people (regardless if they partake or not, just being pro gets the stigma) makes it difficult to accurately count.

    I should hold a poll on /r/trees and see how many pro-gun people respond.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    -Secede from the government at an individual level
    -Hold massive civil disobedience "demonstations"
    -Ignore the government out of existence

    Of course, lots of minds must be opened first.

    Is every able body doing their part to chip away at statist mentalities to be able to start planting seeds of peace and freedom?
    read here to find out what happen to the people chipping away:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...est-psych-eval
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    If the situation were reversed, do you think the marijuana folks would even consider to team up with us?
    Yes, yes I do. What is the old fashioned way? Through the courts? The courts wont touch it. They've only bastardized it in such a way as to expand the power congress. Remove it through congress? They wont, it gives them all of their power. Only chance is through the states using a convention.

    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    The commerce cause will never be repealed. It empowers the fed to do absolutely anything it wants.
    I remember when I was younger someone was teaching about some of the uses of this commerce. I truly, honestly thought he was lying. The use of the clause was so obviously used in a way never intended. I thought "people would never allow that".....
    I agree, congress wouldn't dare repeal the commerce clause. The states, on the other hand, have reason to do so. Especially with the states invoking the 10th either to legalize marijuana or get the fed out of guns. The fed is going to ignore this and continue stomping all over the states. Many states hate Obama and the fedgov now. Or atleast Texas does.

    I think, with a lot of hard work and effort, we can get the states behind the idea of a constitutional convention to repeal the commerce clause. Remember, states of little to nothing to lose by repealing the commerce clause and a whole lot of power to gain. It will become a lot more apparent when/if their 10th amendment cases are lost.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I have always supported freedom, and that includes the freedom to grow and use hemp. I just have no use for it myself. Almost every pot grower I have known also kept guns, though some of them were progressives. I wonder if they voted for Obama...
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    What we really need to repeal is the 16th and 17th amendment. They are where the Federal government got it almost unlimited power.

    Prior to these two amendments, the national Government was dependent on the states for it's very existance, after all everything had to be approved by the Senate, and when Senators were appointed by the State legislatures, it was much easier to reign in on a Federal abuse of power. And the 16th amendment had give the Federal Government unlimited access to funds...just follow the money and you will find the power.

    The commerce clause was not a bad idea when it was placed in the constitution. It has been it's application that stinks. As originally written, it was supposed to stop individual states from placing special taxes on items that were manufactured/grown in both states. It was a "guaranteed free trade between the states" idea...to PROMOTE trade, not restrict it, and defenately not to be used so the national government could control and restrict trade between the states. All the commerce clause needs is to be tweeked to reitterate that it is to Promote trade, and never to be used by any governmantal entity, to restrict trade.

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    Groovy idea OP ...

    Far out. That's thinking outside the box ... wonder how you accomplished this?

    The war on drugs is lost, transferred to just a war on everybody

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post

    Ergo, we should be teaming up with the marijuana guys to call for a convention with the objective of repealing the commerce clause.


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    Jack, it's not the repeal of the commerce clause that we need. It's the correct application of the commerce clause that we need.

    It was put there to prevent states from taxing goods being imported from other states. It was also put there to protect transport of goods between states.

    For an example; Washington grows some top of the line Medical Marijuana and Florida's medical crop gets wiped out by a hurricane. Now a doctor in Florida needs Marijuana from Washington and so orders, let's say, 20lbs from a grower in Washington. Now, let's say, every state in between Washington and Florida bans even the possession of Marijuana. So the commerce clause comes into effect when the car carrying the 20lbs of marijuana crosses the state line on it's way to Florida. The driver get's stopped somewhere in between Washington and Florida and arrested for the possession of the marijuana. Well the "weed" was to be delivered to Florida and had to pass through all those states that prohibit "weed." Now the federal government is supposed to step in and defend the transport of "weed" from Washington to Florida so long at it was not being sold and/or delivered in any of the states that prohibit "weed."

    THAT is the intent of the "commerce clause."
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    The ATF has already declared that marijuana users are prohibited possessors.

    The government will be executing the citizens and putting them in mass graves before it gives up the power it has.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Jack, it's not the repeal of the commerce clause that we need. It's the correct application of the commerce clause that we need.

    It was put there to prevent states from taxing goods being imported from other states. It was also put there to protect transport of goods between states.

    For an example; Washington grows some top of the line Medical Marijuana and Florida's medical crop gets wiped out by a hurricane. Now a doctor in Florida needs Marijuana from Washington and so orders, let's say, 20lbs from a grower in Washington. Now, let's say, every state in between Washington and Florida bans even the possession of Marijuana. So the commerce clause comes into effect when the car carrying the 20lbs of marijuana crosses the state line on it's way to Florida. The driver get's stopped somewhere in between Washington and Florida and arrested for the possession of the marijuana. Well the "weed" was to be delivered to Florida and had to pass through all those states that prohibit "weed." Now the federal government is supposed to step in and defend the transport of "weed" from Washington to Florida so long at it was not being sold and/or delivered in any of the states that prohibit "weed."

    THAT is the intent of the "commerce clause."
    If we can tear it down, we can rebuild. If we rebuild it, we can rebuild it better than before.

    Think of the fed as like a building. A building that is constantly receiving expansions like new wings and stories. The building needs to be condemned, it's a serious safety hazard and parts of it have been crumbling for a long time now. The building needs to be torn down. But that doesn't mean it can't be rebuilt.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    If we can tear it down, we can rebuild. If we rebuild it, we can rebuild it better than before.

    Think of the fed as like a building. A building that is constantly receiving expansions like new wings and stories. The building needs to be condemned, it's a serious safety hazard and parts of it have been crumbling for a long time now. The building needs to be torn down. But that doesn't mean it can't be rebuilt.
    Instead of a complete tear down, why not just re-roof the place?

    The problem is that the government has been leaking into where it does not belong.

    As fun as a civil war might sound, I would rather get this fixed peacefully.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Re: Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    I never said anything about a civil war,I believe the topic of discussion here is a repeal of the commerce clause, which would gut many federal laws.

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    Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    It has always been my opinion/understanding that the federal authority stops at the state line leaving individual states to govern themselves...I know we have allowed them to trample that detail, and the Marijuana issue might open some eyes, but probably just make some squinted...lol, same kind of thing happened with liquor, but as a result about the same time we got the NFA regulations, prohibition ended but Feds still regulate inside the state???
    Montana I believe has a bill outlining instate manufacture and sales of firearms, claiming it is off limits to federal regulation and/or taxation, backed by the 10th amendment ???

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    Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    I agree with "freedom 1 man", and would like to add the 14th amendment to it, that is what makes us "federal citizens" only residing in our respective states, and subject to federal laws which should not even apply inside of an individual state..

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Still against "gutting" the clause because there is no reason to.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...ommerce+Clause

    The Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to regulate commerce in order to ensure that the flow of interstate commerce is free from local restraints imposed by various states. When Congress deems an aspect of interstate commerce to be in need of supervision, it will enact legislation that must have some real and rational relation to the subject of regulation. Congress may constitutionally provide for the point at which subjects of interstate commerce become subjects of state law and, therefore, state regulation.

    http://theunsolicitedopinion.com/Bil...ut%20-%203.pdf

    So, if anything needed gutting, it is Congress, the courts, and the executive branch. They all need to be replaced with those who know, understand, and follow the constitution and the original intent behind it.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Marijuana: our ticket to repeal of all federal gun laws

    Absolutely; the clause itself is fine, if left unmolested by beurocrats, and their desire for control

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDPrice View Post
    Absolutely; the clause itself is fine, if left unmolested by beurocrats, and their desire for control
    Sorry that was not directed at you. That was for Jack House to read.

    Thank you for your support though.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Instead of a complete tear down, why not just re-roof the place?

    The problem is that the government has been leaking into where it does not belong.

    As fun as a civil war might sound, I would rather get this fixed peacefully.
    What good does re-roofing do when it's most things under the roof that need to be replaced? If anything one could say that there's already a decent roof (though it needs a few patches in order to make it more "weatherproof" for modern times), but it's everything that the roof "protects" that needs to be thrown out. The laws and all those that support/make such laws under the "roof" are the problem.


    And personally I've never understood how regulating=prohibition, but yet we see it all the time. All of the prohibition laws on drugs, or how OK used the "regulating" bit of it's Constitution to flat-out ban OC (which we finally got back), and tons of other examples across the country.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    What good does re-roofing do when it's most things under the roof that need to be replaced? If anything one could say that there's already a decent roof (though it needs a few patches in order to make it more "weatherproof" for modern times), but it's everything that the roof "protects" that needs to be thrown out. The laws and all those that support/make such laws under the "roof" are the problem.


    And personally I've never understood how regulating=prohibition, but yet we see it all the time. All of the prohibition laws on drugs, or how OK used the "regulating" bit of it's Constitution to flat-out ban OC (which we finally got back), and tons of other examples across the country.
    It was explained in a later post.

    Re-roofing was a bad example. It's not like the roof was leaking, or that the structure was bad, the 'water' that looked like it came from a leak in the roof was in fact that the renters (congress) were urinating all over everything while the rental agency (the judges) stood back and encouraged the activity. The structure and roof are fine we've just got to clean the house.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 11-11-2012 at 02:26 PM. Reason: spelling
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    What good does re-roofing do when it's most things under the roof that need to be replaced? If anything one could say that there's already a decent roof (though it needs a few patches in order to make it more "weatherproof" for modern times), but it's everything that the roof "protects" that needs to be thrown out. The laws and all those that support/make such laws under the "roof" are the problem.


    And personally I've never understood how regulating=prohibition, but yet we see it all the time. All of the prohibition laws on drugs, or how OK used the "regulating" bit of it's Constitution to flat-out ban OC (which we finally got back), and tons of other examples across the country.
    You are right regulation isn't supposed to equal prohibition, like many other words that have -ate at the end of it Regulate was supposed to mean to make regular. Commerce simply meant trade, the commerce clause was to ensure that free and regular trade occurred between the states. The founders realized that the over taxation and restrictions on free trade between the European states was not good for the people or their pocket books. It is why U.S. was able to raise it's level of living so fast and so well.

    I say the analogy is pretty close, because the frame of the house or of our federalization as sold to the citizenry wasn't a bad idea, but no sooner than it was instituted, those in power started drilling holes into it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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