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Thread: Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

    Can magazines be kept full if they are completely separate from the locked gun?

    Cased and empty gun with a lock behind seat. Full mags in a glove box. Is it risky or what?

    Just a bit annoying always unloading the mags to be sure.

    BTW I'll be getting a CPL soon anyway.


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  2. #2
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    There is no legal requirement to unload magazines for transport. You also do not to have them separate from the gun. As long as the gun is unloaded, the full magazine can be in the same case that is inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    There is no legal requirement to unload magazines for transport. You also do not to have them separate from the gun. As long as the gun is unloaded, the full magazine can be in the same case that is inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    I agree.
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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    You also do not to have them separate from the gun. As long as the gun is unloaded, the full magazine can be in the same case that is inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    I agree unless you have a permit or your state law says otherwise, the gun and ammo cannot be within reach.

    §926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

    (Added Pub. L. 99–360, §1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

    http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/.../parti/chap44/
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    I agree unless you have a permit or your state law says otherwise, the gun and ammo cannot be within reach.

    §926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

    (Added Pub. L. 99–360, §1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

    http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/.../parti/chap44/

    Yep, but notice that the person needs to be traveling "interstate", not "intrastate".
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  6. #6
    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    There is no legal requirement to unload magazines for transport. You also do not to have them separate from the gun. As long as the gun is unloaded, the full magazine can be in the same case that is inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    I drive a pickup. Is behind my driver seat inaccessible enough for the law?


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  7. #7
    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    I agree unless you have a permit or your state law says otherwise, the gun and ammo cannot be within reach.

    §926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

    Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

    (Added Pub. L. 99–360, §1(a), July 8, 1986, 100 Stat. 766.)

    http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/.../parti/chap44/
    I guess I could put a lock on my case then...


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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I guess I could put a lock on my case then...


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    Robert's post makes no difference if you are driving from a place in Michigan to another place in Michigan.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I drive a pickup. Is behind my driver seat inaccessible enough for the law?


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    I'd say it depends on the cop that pulls you over and decides to arrest or not arrest you, the prosecutor who decides to charge/not charge you and the 12 people in the jury box who decide to convict/aquit. In other words, the law is written terribly.
    Last edited by scot623; 11-11-2012 at 12:18 AM.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    The info I posted is what's stated in the federal code that is why I posted a
    Link so you could read it yourself. And to my knowledge when it's federal as it states apples to everywhere provided that the state you are in doesn't have a law stating otherwise. Also I am not a lawyer and you should not take my word as legal advise. I simply stated my understanding of the law and posted a link for your own studies.

    In my state the law says unless you have a permit the pistol has to be unloaded and in a case disigned to carry a pistol and is wholly or partially visable and doesn't say the ammo has to be out of reach.

    TITLE 21 § 1289.7 FIREARMS IN VEHICLES
    Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at any time. For purposes of this section “open” means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or a trunk of a vehicle.
    Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle or shotgun concealed behind a seat of the vehicle or within the interior of the vehicle provided the rifle or shotgun is not clip, magazine or chamber loaded. The authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.
    Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a handgun, concealed or unconcealed, and is carrying a handgun or has the handgun in such vehicle, shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in or near the vehicle.

    http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA...k_NOV_2012.pdf
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  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I drive a pickup. Is behind my driver seat inaccessible enough for the law?


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    Better if it was behind the passanger seat. It should be out of your immediate reach.

    324.43513 Carrying, transporting, or possessing firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow; hunting license not required; carrying or possessing unloaded weapon.Sec. 43513.
    (1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle. A person may carry, transport, or possess a slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow without a hunting license if the slingshot, bow, or crossbow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.
    (2) Regardless of whether the person has a license or it is open season for the taking of game, a person may carry, transport, possess or discharge a firearm, a bow and arrow, or a crossbow if all of the following apply:
    (a) The person is not taking or attempting to take game but is engaged in 1 or more of the following activities:
    (i) Target practice using an identifiable, artificially constructed target or targets.
    (ii) Practice with silhouettes, plinking, skeet, or trap.
    (iii) Sighting-in the firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow.
    (b) The person is, or is accompanied by or has the permission of, either of the following:
    (i) The owner of the property on which the activity under subdivision (a) is taking place.
    (ii) The lessee of that property for a term of not less than 1 year.
    (c) The owner or lessee of the property does not receive remuneration for the activity under subdivision (a).
    (3) A person may carry or possess an unloaded weapon at any time if the person is traveling to or from or participating in a historical reenactment.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    The info I posted is what's stated in the federal code that is why I posted a
    Link so you could read it yourself. And to my knowledge when it's federal as it states apples to everywhere provided that the state you are in doesn't have a law stating otherwise. Also I am not a lawyer and you should not take my word as legal advise. I simply stated my understanding of the law and posted a link for your own studies.

    In my state the law says unless you have a permit the pistol has to be unloaded and in a case disigned to carry a pistol and is wholly or partially visable and doesn't say the ammo has to be out of reach.

    SNIP
    Per Michigan law, a resident without a CPL, must comply to MCL 750.231a (Lawful Transport):

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(yhx...e=mcl-750-231a

    d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    There's no requirement under 750.231a, to transport mags unloaded or even separate from the pistol.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MI_XD's Avatar
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    Now, by saying Unloaded, does that mean the magazine cannot be in the pistol, or can it be in the pistol but not have a bullet in the chamber?

    I thought I saw somewhere that it meant not chambered.

    MI_XD

  14. #14
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_XD View Post
    Now, by saying Unloaded, does that mean the magazine cannot be in the pistol, or can it be in the pistol but not have a bullet in the chamber?

    I thought I saw somewhere that it meant not chambered.

    MI_XD



    Mag must be separate from firearm.

    Mag must be OUT of firearm.



    I think the "not immediately accessible is a pretty wishy washy way to define the law. Personally, in my cab and a half pick up, I would have MUCH more trouble retrieving the firearm from under the back seat directly behind the driver seat. I can lean in between the seats and towards the passenger side pretty easily to retrieve something from under that seat. I cannot bend backwards and contort my arms/body to get something from behind the driver seat without exiting the vehicle.

    If you have a lock on the box, that will likely make it "not immediately accessible" especially if you have the key in the glove box or something like that.

    Personally, I wouldn't keep the loaded mags in the same case as the firearm.... I would keep it in my pocket or in the console or something like that...


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  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

    Only way a mag can be in the gun (w/o CPL) is if the mag is empty.

    HTH
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

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  16. #16
    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Full mags in vehicle... No CPL.

    It is much harder for me to grab the case from behind my drivers seat. Very easy to get from behind the passenger.

    To unlock my gun requires a key from the key ring I'm using to drive. Not impossible to assemble the gun while driving, but it would be very reckless to try.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Per Michigan law, a resident without a CPL, must comply to MCL 750.231a (Lawful Transport):

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(yhx...e=mcl-750-231a



    There's no requirement under 750.231a, to transport mags unloaded or even separate from the pistol.
    BUT

    324.43513 Carrying, transporting, or possessing firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow; hunting license not required; carrying or possessing unloaded weapon.Sec. 43513.
    (1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is

    "unloaded in both barrel and magazine" <======= "how does this apply?"

    and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle. A person may carry, transport, or possess a slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow without a hunting license if the slingshot, bow, or crossbow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.

  18. #18
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    "unloaded in both barrel and magazine" <======= "how does this apply?"
    The gun must be unloaded. If a loaded magazine is removed from the gun, then the firearm is unloaded. Some firearms do not have removable magazines. The law is just trying to be clear that any rounds in the gun itself (i.e., they do not have to be chambered) are a violation.
    Last edited by griffin; 11-12-2012 at 08:58 AM.
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