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Thread: Why in Oregon do you open carry ?

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    Why in Oregon do you open carry ?

    I carry concealed and find I am invisible to the world, no one pays me no never mind while I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.
    It shows no more then my cell phone.
    I was in the store the other day and an open carry person was right near me with a shoulder holster clear as can be looked like a 357 Taurus.
    I understand that some can not get a concealed for what ever reason, but I have not understood why people want others to know they carry ?
    I am guess there is more then constitutional rights as the reason as that would not make much sense to show it for no need,so forgive my ignorance by why is it important for others to see your gun ? But being there is a whole website here dedicated to it I was curious.

    I joined to learn about open carry laws, I already know about concealed that's why I am here to learn but then it had me wondering
    um why do people for lack of another word show off their piece? Or make a point of it ?

    And I am all for everyone's rights just wondered.

    Thanks

    Sig
    Last edited by SigsP229; 11-11-2012 at 06:29 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Hi!
    I'm a frog. I have bulging eyes, a big mouth, and strong back legs for jumping; just like my regular cousin the green tree frog.


    Unlike my cousin I have something about me that stands out, really makes me noticed by predators and things that want to eat me.


    My cousin's get eaten all the time, but predators seem to leave me and other frogs that look like me alone. I'm not sure why.... can you figure it out?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    OC provides for a passive (non active/no touch) defense (1) and is educational to the general public (2).

    1) Don't want to be a victim? Then don't look like a victim.

    2) No one would ever ask me/us about self-defense laws if they couldn't see it would they?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Hi and thanks for the response, not sure I got the frog one ? I mean I get the logic but was not sure as a whole it addressed the OC use.

    1) Don't want to be a victim? Then don't look like a victim.

    2) No one would ever ask me/us about self-defense laws if they couldn't see it would they?


    It may be easier for long term members here know why but I have serious legitimate questions.

    I am not sure I understood the first one, most person to person crimes do not occur in broad day light and public areas which was were my question was more directed. And if I am in a dark alley know one can see my gun? So avoiding victimization by OC I'd have to go hmmmm on that one a bit. Carrying makes sense for any personal protection, it is the visibility I am unclear of. I notice many people post on here of making points of where they went and what looks, reactions or lack of they get so the more I read on the more it was confusing.

    Number two answer sure makes sense I guess I drive a classic truck and if I did not drive it
    people wouldn't come up and ask me about it. So I guess that makes sense.

    I think I am stuck at least on this response of a victim avoidance technique.

    Appreciate the response :-)


    I guess should add that if every one OC's I think crime would be down, I guess maybe why it is confusing here as allot of people carry and are armed here my self included around here it is assumed the person you approach is armed as most are.
    We have allot of CHL's here and even OC are pretty noticeable. Every one hunts, shoots and has at least a dozen guns LOL
    Last edited by SigsP229; 11-11-2012 at 09:17 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The orange or golden frog advertises the danger to predators, in effect OCing.
    http://oddstuffmagazine.com/7-most-d...the-globe.html

    There is more to not looking like a victim, but nevertheless OC is an excellent beginning.

    You seem to imply that because dark alleys exist, that you would not chose to OC anywhere, any time - strange basis for a decision. Many more times the genuine need for a defensive tool occurs in areas well lighted or in broad daylight.

    Insofar as being in a dark alley, I can't relate to that as I don't frequent (ever?) dark alleys.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I carry concealed and find I am invisible to the world, no one pays me no never mind while I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.
    It shows no more then my cell phone.
    I was in the store the other day and an open carry person was right near me with a shoulder holster clear as can be looked like a 357 Taurus.
    I understand that some can not get a concealed for what ever reason, but I have not understood why people want others to know they carry ?
    I am guess there is more then constitutional rights as the reason as that would not make much sense to show it for no need,so forgive my ignorance by why is it important for others to see your gun ? But being there is a whole website here dedicated to it I was curious.

    I joined to learn about open carry laws, I already know about concealed that's why I am here to learn but then it had me wondering
    um why do people for lack of another word show off their piece? Or make a point of it ?

    And I am all for everyone's rights just wondered.

    Thanks

    Sig
    I OC, and have OC'd in OR, ID and WA (and other states) over the last 42+ years, to inform those that would do me harm that I am prepared to defend myself...I have a WA CPL, but I normally do not conceal (unless it is really cold and I have a coat on) So far it has worked for me.

    The reason...very good chance the BG's will not bother me. That is the frog story in a nut shell. Bother me and there is a good chance it may be harmful to you. An informed criminal can make a more intelligent choice...just leave me be, and I'll leave you be. I never go looking for trouble, and do my best to stay away from any place where trouble may find me.

    After a couple tours in Vietnam I decided I really did not like confrontation...I would rather prevent confrontation, than react to it. Now that I am part of the grumpy, gimpy, gray haired, SS crowd, that holds even more true.

    I also have another more personal reason, but as most people misunderstand, I will spare you...if you see one of my older posts, you may see it, just read carefully and you won't misunderstand what I am saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The orange or golden frog advertises the danger to predators, in effect OCing.
    http://oddstuffmagazine.com/7-most-d...the-globe.html

    There is more to not looking like a victim, but nevertheless OC is an excellent beginning.

    You seem to imply that because dark alleys exist, that you would not chose to OC anywhere, any time - strange basis for a decision. Many more times the genuine need for a defensive tool occurs in areas well lighted or in broad daylight.

    Insofar as being in a dark alley, I can't relate to that as I don't frequent (ever?) dark alleys.
    I guess it is why I asked, I see no real practical use to OC really I joined to try and get an idea and after joining and reading here I really did not see a clear path of why OC as opposed to just getting a CHL ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I OC, and have OC'd in OR, ID and WA (and other states) over the last 42+ years, to inform those that would do me harm that I am prepared to defend myself...I have a WA CPL, but I normally do not conceal (unless it is really cold and I have a coat on) So far it has worked for me.

    The reason...very good chance the BG's will not bother me. That is the frog story in a nut shell. Bother me and there is a good chance it may be harmful to you. An informed criminal can make a more intelligent choice...just leave me be, and I'll leave you be. I never go looking for trouble, and do my best to stay away from any place where trouble may find me.

    After a couple tours in Vietnam I decided I really did not like confrontation...I would rather prevent confrontation, than react to it. Now that I am part of the grumpy, gimpy, gray haired, SS crowd, that holds even more true.

    I also have another more personal reason, but as most people misunderstand, I will spare you...if you see one of my older posts, you may see it, just read carefully and you won't misunderstand what I am saying.
    I agree with your view completely except I see using my CHL as avoiding conflict and only OC when actually using it for work or something that requires me to have it out and available. I think I see where I differ I prefer to respond to a situation only as needed, and not prevent it as I feel if I give anyone an edge by knowing I am armed and if OC I can only prevent certain situations. If I CHL then the surprise is always mine to any evil doer. I guess my view is also from my up bringing where showing my hand and making the enemy aware only gave them an edge, if they were unsure or did not know the edge was mine. Great conversation thank you for sharing it greatly helped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I guess it is why I asked, I see no real practical use to OC really I joined to try and get an idea and after joining and reading here I really did not see a clear path of why OC as opposed to just getting a CHL ?
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I OC, and have OC'd in OR, ID and WA (and other states) over the last 42+ years, to inform those that would do me harm that I am prepared to defend myself...I have a WA CPL, but I normally do not conceal (unless it is really cold and I have a coat on) So far it has worked for me.

    The reason...very good chance the BG's will not bother me. That is the frog story in a nut shell. Bother me and there is a good chance it may be harmful to you. An informed criminal can make a more intelligent choice...just leave me be, and I'll leave you be. I never go looking for trouble, and do my best to stay away from any place where trouble may find me.

    After a couple tours in Vietnam I decided I really did not like confrontation...I would rather prevent confrontation, than react to it. Now that I am part of the grumpy, gimpy, gray haired, SS crowd, that holds even more true.

    I also have another more personal reason, but as most people misunderstand, I will spare you...if you see one of my older posts, you may see it, just read carefully and you won't misunderstand what I am saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I agree with your view completely except I see using my CHL as avoiding conflict and only OC when actually using it for work or something that requires me to have it out and available. I think I see where I differ I prefer to respond to a situation only as needed, and not prevent it as I feel if I give anyone an edge by knowing I am armed and if OC I can only prevent certain situations. If I CHL then the surprise is always mine to any evil doer. I guess my view is also from my up bringing where showing my hand and making the enemy aware only gave them an edge, if they were unsure or did not know the edge was mine. Great conversation thank you for sharing it greatly helped.
    Please not the "element of surprise" argument. That in itself indicates that the problem has already occurred - prefer avoidance rather than having to actively engage.

    Suggest spending some time with OCers and see first hand the beneficial effects and share in their experiences.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member BigDeeeeeeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    so forgive my ignorance by why is it important for others to see your gun ?
    It's not, if it was I'd put a flashing light and a beeper on it. Otoh it's not important to me to have them not see it.

    In most states CC is asking for permission from the government, OC is a Right.
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    Pass the popcorn

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    ...I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.

    ...

    why do people for lack of another word show off their piece? Or make a point of it ?...
    It's a fair question, especially with the amount of in-your-face YouTubers making OC rather infamous in some places (I'm not saying that it helps or hurts overall, just stating the fact.) But your question implies that is the only reason for OC. When, in fact, it is the least common reason in states like NV, AZ, and UT (the three states I spend most of my time in.)

    I much prefer to dress with a tucked in, collared shirt. OC is a far more comfortable choice of carry, especially with a full-size sidearm.

    Just because you can see someone is carrying, don't assume seeing it was the primary intention. It may just be a side benefit of a preferred method to carry.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-14-2012 at 03:04 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I carry concealed and find I am invisible to the world, no one pays me no never mind while I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.
    It shows no more then my cell phone.
    I was in the store the other day and an open carry person was right near me with a shoulder holster clear as can be looked like a 357 Taurus.
    I understand that some can not get a concealed for what ever reason, but I have not understood why people want others to know they carry ?
    I am guess there is more then constitutional rights as the reason as that would not make much sense to show it for no need,so forgive my ignorance by why is it important for others to see your gun ? But being there is a whole website here dedicated to it I was curious.

    I joined to learn about open carry laws, I already know about concealed that's why I am here to learn but then it had me wondering
    um why do people for lack of another word show off their piece? Or make a point of it ?

    And I am all for everyone's rights just wondered.

    Thanks

    Sig
    Are you looking for a reason to OC, or, are you looking for a law in OR that states that you can OC?

    To the CC benefits. I CC when required by law in my state, the benefit being that I am not subject to criminal sanctions.

    To the benefits of OC. I OC because I'm not prohibited by law from OCing.

    My experience compels me to OC because OC will deter your average criminal. The hardened criminal, the exception to the criminal class in my view, will not be deterred at all by the citizen who is CC. The hardened criminal may be deterred if he sees that I am armed. But, the hardened criminal must consider the risk vs. the reward for engaging a armed opponent.

    Criminals timid and hardened are not envious of assuming room temperature, to my knowledge. Criminals tend to covet their ill gotten gains once obtained. Their zest for life is used to my advantage when I OC. I must attempt to remind them of their zest for life when I CC.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I carry concealed and find I am invisible to the world, no one pays me no never mind while I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.

    Thanks

    Sig
    I OC and find that mostly I am invisible to the world as well. No one really ever pays me any mind at all.

    You're welcome
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Regular Member aa1911's Avatar
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    a bit off of the point you are making but as a WA resident, I can only OC in OR as they won't issue CCW permits to out of staters unless you can get special permission due to work, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aa1911 View Post
    ...I can only OC in OR as they won't issue CCW permits to out of staters unless you can get special permission due to work, etc.
    OR, by state law, is shall-issue to residents, but still allows issue to non-residents. Each county has its own requirements for issuing to non-residents. There are some counties which will issue to a non-resident without requiring landowner or employment status.

    Grant and Josephine Counties were known to issue to non-residents.
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-14-2012 at 05:48 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I agree with your view completely except I see using my CHL as avoiding conflict and only OC when actually using it for work or something that requires me to have it out and available. I think I see where I differ I prefer to respond to a situation only as needed, and not prevent it as I feel if I give anyone an edge by knowing I am armed and if OC I can only prevent certain situations. If I CHL then the surprise is always mine to any evil doer. I guess my view is also from my up bringing where showing my hand and making the enemy aware only gave them an edge, if they were unsure or did not know the edge was mine. Great conversation thank you for sharing it greatly helped.
    I see you don't quite understand...I don't want any interaction...at all. I would just rather the BG's would leave me alone. An informed BG can make an intelligent choice and just leave me and mine be.

    Secondly, I have OC'd for over 42 years, I have had no bad interactions with LE or normal citizens, I have had one insident where the person that wished to do me harm, saw my carry and decided he had other things to do elsewhere... My carry never left it's holster, I did not have to interact with LE over my actions, and everyone went home that night. That is successful carry.

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    ...all i can say is this guy is a wannabe troll...if he can't see that the main purpose of OC is to deter a criminal from assaulting you. Unlike the vast majority of citizens who don't notice my sidearm, those criminals sizing you up, will notice. They will also move onto something much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Fan View Post
    ...all i can say is this guy is a wannabe troll...if he can't see that the main purpose of OC is to deter a criminal from assaulting you. Unlike the vast majority of citizens who don't notice my sidearm, those criminals sizing you up, will notice. They will also move onto something much easier.
    OR they won't and may suffer some severe complications! LOL
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigsP229 View Post
    I carry concealed and find I am invisible to the world, no one pays me no never mind while I have my 40cal P229 tucked under my shirt.
    It shows no more then my cell phone.
    I was in the store the other day and an open carry person was right near me with a shoulder holster clear as can be looked like a 357 Taurus.
    I understand that some can not get a concealed for what ever reason, but I have not understood why people want others to know they carry ?
    I am guess there is more then constitutional rights as the reason as that would not make much sense to show it for no need,so forgive my ignorance by why is it important for others to see your gun ? But being there is a whole website here dedicated to it I was curious.

    I joined to learn about open carry laws, I already know about concealed that's why I am here to learn but then it had me wondering
    um why do people for lack of another word show off their piece? Or make a point of it ?

    And I am all for everyone's rights just wondered.

    Thanks

    Sig

    Another thing to think about. Oregon law requires that some weapons always be carried openly, like switchblades, billy clubs etc. It's also possible that someone could be carrying a pistol with a switchblade attached to their belt near a holstered pistol.

    Even with a CHL, (assuming you live in Oregon or otherwise qualify for a CHL) you cannot conceal carry certain weapons like automatic knives, blackjacks etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDeeeeeeee View Post
    It's not, if it was I'd put a flashing light and a beeper on it. Otoh it's not important to me to have them not see it.

    In most states CC is asking for permission from the government, OC is a Right.
    Exactly! I OC because, I'm not going to "ask/beg" The State if I can CC.

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    OC vs CC

    CC Person:

    Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
    1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

    2. Place hand on gun (Only issue is with a proper CC, most criminals still wont notice it is a gun...)

    3. Drawing your gun

    4. Aiming your gun at attacker

    5. Shooting your firearm


    OC Person:

    Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
    1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

    2. Openly displaying your firearm to dissuade an assault

    3. Place hand on gun (Most likely they will notice it is a gun since most holsters for OC will remind them of a Police Officer)

    4. Drawing your Gun

    5. Aiming your gun at attacker

    6. Shooting your firearm


    I dont subscribe to the 'if i draw my gun imma shoot them' idea. If I draw it and they run, imma put it away and thats the end of the story. I carry a firearm to stop an attack, and that list shows the stages of stopping an attack, from how you act, where you go, to having to fire your weapon.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Fan View Post
    OC vs CC

    CC Person:

    Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
    1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

    2. Place hand on gun (Only issue is with a proper CC, most criminals still wont notice it is a gun...)

    3. Drawing your gun

    4. Aiming your gun at attacker

    5. Shooting your firearm


    OC Person:

    Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
    1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

    2. Openly displaying your firearm to dissuade an assault

    3. Place hand on gun (Most likely they will notice it is a gun since most holsters for OC will remind them of a Police Officer)

    4. Drawing your Gun

    5. Aiming your gun at attacker

    6. Shooting your firearm


    I dont subscribe to the 'if i draw my gun imma shoot them' idea. If I draw it and they run, imma put it away and thats the end of the story. I carry a firearm to stop an attack, and that list shows the stages of stopping an attack, from how you act, where you go, to having to fire your weapon.
    Not quite so - over simplified I fear.

    Re CC & OC - between #3 & #4 one must see a real threat (i.e. gun) before moving to deadly force. To do otherwise is to make you the aggressor.

    Both are behind the reaction curve timeline - the threat must be real, taking place, not simply that it might happen before one can act.

    OC seeks to interrupt that process by giving the BG a reason to quit.

    One other option was omitted - that of running away. No shame in that and doing so can avoid all of the other entanglements - stand your ground is not a requirement.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Yeah, the chart is simplistic and probably wrongly named...but meh...you have to go through those stages as a person continues to try to make you the victim. If you ran away, that would be stage 1...sooo...wee...cuz i know people without guns who can run...real fast

  24. #24
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    This is a very good discussion -

    As a WA resident and no OR CHL, legally I can only carry by OCing in Oregon - and I have to be outside of restricted jurisdictions such as Portland.

    By nature I am not a fighter. I tend to be pretty low key about things and will go out of my way to avoid a confrontation. When I can't avoid, I try to deter - an advantage OC gives me. A few have already mentioned that your average criminal is interested in making a quick buck, not inflicting bodily harm. Somebody who is a more serious threat suddenly has to consider if the chance of getting shot is worth whatever they think I have. You do not have that ability when CCing. I would rather not have to draw my weapon if I can avoid it. If those previous options fail, I want to end the confrontation as quickly and as efficiently as possible - which means bringing my weapon to bear in a timely fashion - something that is easier said than done when the gun is under a layer or two of clothing, and those precious milliseconds could be fatal.

    Also, it is far more comfortable to carry in a holster on my belt than IWB - even a sub compact like my XDS feels a bit awkward after a while.

    I also enjoy the opportunity to educate and meet people who are curious, have questions, or are supportive. I do get a certain satisfaction from informing other citizens that they have the ability to take an active role in their own security. That is merely the icing on the cake, not the reason I choose to OC.

    I have rarely had a negative experience OCing, I've run into the occasional dimwit, and an encounter or two with law enforcement - I do understand not wanting to OC so as to not risk drawing that kind of attention, but that opens up an entirely different can of worms - (choosing to not engage in an otherwise lawful activity in fear of the government and its agents).

  25. #25
    Regular Member Ed69's Avatar
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    I walked into a SubWay today and there was a young man OCing his Sig 40 cal in front of me in line,I had my .32 in my pocket.He never looked back to see who was on his six.Now if I were a BG looking to do evil that day,who in that little shop would I shoot first?If you are going to OC be situationaly aware or you'll be the one shot in the back.Been carrying CC and OC 23 years now,and I can say there are positives and negatives to both.And if your not aware you will get it in the back!

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