Why in Oregon do you open carry ?

OC vs CC

CC Person:

Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

2. Place hand on gun (Only issue is with a proper CC, most criminals still wont notice it is a gun...)

3. Drawing your gun

4. Aiming your gun at attacker

5. Shooting your firearm


OC Person:

Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

2. Openly displaying your firearm to dissuade an assault

3. Place hand on gun (Most likely they will notice it is a gun since most holsters for OC will remind them of a Police Officer)

4. Drawing your Gun

5. Aiming your gun at attacker

6. Shooting your firearm


I dont subscribe to the 'if i draw my gun imma shoot them' idea. If I draw it and they run, imma put it away and thats the end of the story. I carry a firearm to stop an attack, and that list shows the stages of stopping an attack, from how you act, where you go, to having to fire your weapon.

45 Fan said:

OC vs CC

CC Person:

Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

2. Place hand on gun (Only issue is with a proper CC, most criminals still wont notice it is a gun...)

3. Drawing your gun

4. Aiming your gun at attacker

5. Shooting your firearm


OC Person:

Stages of Avoiding Victimization:
1. Dont act like a victim(This includes all the standard items ANYONE(weapon or not) can use to avoid being targeted)

2. Openly displaying your firearm to dissuade an assault

3. Place hand on gun (Most likely they will notice it is a gun since most holsters for OC will remind them of a Police Officer)

4. Drawing your Gun

5. Aiming your gun at attacker

6. Shooting your firearm


I dont subscribe to the 'if i draw my gun imma shoot them' idea. If I draw it and they run, imma put it away and thats the end of the story. I carry a firearm to stop an attack, and that list shows the stages of stopping an attack, from how you act, where you go, to having to fire your weapon.

Click to expand...

Not quite so - over simplified I fear.

Re CC & OC - between #3 & #4 one must see a real threat (i.e. gun) before moving to deadly force. To do otherwise is to make you the aggressor.

Both are behind the reaction curve timeline - the threat must be real, taking place, not simply that it might happen before one can act.

OC seeks to interrupt that process by giving the BG a reason to quit.

One other option was omitted - that of running away. No shame in that and doing so can avoid all of the other entanglements - stand your ground is not a requirement.

Yeah, the chart is simplistic and probably wrongly named...but meh...you have to go through those stages as a person continues to try to make you the victim. If you ran away, that would be stage 1...sooo...wee...cuz i know people without guns who can run...real fast

This is a very good discussion -

As a WA resident and no OR CHL, legally I can only carry by OCing in Oregon - and I have to be outside of restricted jurisdictions such as Portland.

By nature I am not a fighter. I tend to be pretty low key about things and will go out of my way to avoid a confrontation. When I can't avoid, I try to deter - an advantage OC gives me. A few have already mentioned that your average criminal is interested in making a quick buck, not inflicting bodily harm. Somebody who is a more serious threat suddenly has to consider if the chance of getting shot is worth whatever they think I have. You do not have that ability when CCing. I would rather not have to draw my weapon if I can avoid it. If those previous options fail, I want to end the confrontation as quickly and as efficiently as possible - which means bringing my weapon to bear in a timely fashion - something that is easier said than done when the gun is under a layer or two of clothing, and those precious milliseconds could be fatal.

Also, it is far more comfortable to carry in a holster on my belt than IWB - even a sub compact like my XDS feels a bit awkward after a while.

I also enjoy the opportunity to educate and meet people who are curious, have questions, or are supportive. I do get a certain satisfaction from informing other citizens that they have the ability to take an active role in their own security. That is merely the icing on the cake, not the reason I choose to OC.

I have rarely had a negative experience OCing, I've run into the occasional dimwit, and an encounter or two with law enforcement - I do understand not wanting to OC so as to not risk drawing that kind of attention, but that opens up an entirely different can of worms - (choosing to not engage in an otherwise lawful activity in fear of the government and its agents).

I walked into a SubWay today and there was a young man OCing his Sig 40 cal in front of me in line,I had my .32 in my pocket.He never looked back to see who was on his six.Now if I were a BG looking to do evil that day,who in that little shop would I shoot first?If you are going to OC be situationaly aware or you'll be the one shot in the back.Been carrying CC and OC 23 years now,and I can say there are positives and negatives to both.And if your not aware you will get it in the back!

NavyLCDR said:

Really?!? You would be one incredibly stupid criminal to turn a couple hundred $$$ fast food robbery into a murder. So stupid, in fact, that I would like to see you post one example of such a stupid criminal. The challenge has been out there for years for someone to post an example of Joe Citizen open carrying who was shot first in a robbery. A challenge that has gone unanswered for years. Any criminal with even just two brain cells still functioning would just wait 5 minutes for the guy with the gun to leave, or go down the street one block where there isn't a guy with a gun.

I can't believe you would post that "shoot me first" nonsense on THIS of all forums!

Click to expand...

The mall shooting in Portland where was the money in this.Think on it,just a BG wanting to hurt people.

NavyLCDR said:

Again, the challenge is to provide us with one example where Joe Citizen openly carrying a firearm was shot first. You continue to provide theory...which has never happened in real life. Want to know what happens when the bad guy just wants to hurt people and they are confronted with an armed citizen in real life?

http://www.ammoland.com/2009/07/19/gun-owner-saves-lives-in-the-richmond-va-golden-market-shooting/



And since you bring up the mall shooting.....

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamas..._rob.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2



If you are a bad guy just wanting to hurt people, you aren't going to be standing in line in a subway with a .38 in your pocket. You are going to bust through the door and start shooting at EVERYONE, not taking the time to look around and see who might have a gun to shoot first. Think about it.

Click to expand...

Run with it,I hope it works out great for you!

Ed69 said:

I walked into a SubWay today and there was a young man OCing his Sig 40 cal in front of me in line,I had my .32 in my pocket.He never looked back to see who was on his six.Now if I were a BG looking to do evil that day,who in that little shop would I shoot first?If you are going to OC be situationaly aware or you'll be the one shot in the back.Been carrying CC and OC 23 years now,and I can say there are positives and negatives to both.And if your not aware you will get it in the back!

Click to expand...

You really need to write a concerned letter to the police department(s). My god, the risks they are taking OC'ing every day! PLEASE make them aware of the dangers!

The only person who thinks like you is the person who is only thinking about it. Stop getting your statistics on how bad guys think from watching TV shows. Crooks are lazy and avoid gunfights. If you were really intent on doing that kind of evil that day, you'd have gone somewhere like a school where you can be reasonably sure the good guys aren't carrying.

I would imagine there are more people carrying concealed in OR than OC'ing, like most states. Which means that the OC'er in front of you was probably not the only armed person in the room.

SigsP229 said:

I understand that some can not get a concealed for what ever reason, but I have not understood why people want others to know they carry?
...why OC as opposed to just getting a CHL?

Click to expand...

It's not a matter of not being allowed by the gov't to hide my self-defense tool,
I OC because it's more comfortable, because asking permission to exercise a right rankles, because I have no reason to be ashamed of what I'm doing, because it gives me faster access in an emergency, and because I believe it's safer than looking like an unarmed victim.
There are rare situations where I feel it's better or more polite to cc.

I OC about 90% for safety, about 5% because I can, & about 5% to educate people on their rights.
Other people have a different balance.

BigDeeeeeeee said:

it's not important to me to have them not see it.
In most states CC is asking for permission from the government, OC is a Right.

Click to expand...

hermannr said:

I would just rather the BG's would leave me alone.
An informed BG can make an intelligent choice and just leave me and mine be.

Click to expand...

+1 on all of those reasons.

re: the "you'll get shot first" argument, or the "they'll take your gun" argument

I can't find it right now (my google-fu is weak today) but I have read a news report of one convenience store customer who was OC, who was shot & killed when the psychopathic teenage robber came in the door shooting.

And I know of two cases (in the news) where OC people had their guns stolen by common thieves. In one case, the citizen & a passer-by tackled the thief & got it back right away. The other (which happened here in Milwaukee) had the criminal himself armed.

Compared to the hundreds of thousands of people-hours spent OC, those are statistically zero.

Ok so insults and sarcasm are how the members of this forum educate?Great way to win over more converts!

Teach don't insult.

MKEgal said:

re: the "you'll get shot first" argument, or the "they'll take your gun" argument

I can't find it right now (my google-fu is weak today) but I have read a news report of one convenience store customer who was OC, who was shot & killed when the psychopathic teenage robber came in the door shooting.

And I know of two cases (in the news) where OC people had their guns stolen by common thieves. In one case, the citizen & a passer-by tackled the thief & got it back right away. The other (which happened here in Milwaukee) had the criminal himself armed.

Compared to the hundreds of thousands of people-hours spent OC, those are statistically zero.

Click to expand...

As I remember the conveinience store incident, the BG had stolen the firearm from the LAC who then chased the BG who he knew had a loaded firearm (his own). Had he not chased him while unarmed, it would have been a simple robbery. I also seem to recall that the LAC who lost the firearm was CC but not very well.....not sure on that.

The statistics are quite clear. OC does not increase your odds of being a victim and we'll never know how many times it has caused a criminal to decide there will be an easier target along soon.

Ed69 said:

I walked into a SubWay today and there was a young man OCing his Sig 40 cal in front of me in line,I had my .32 in my pocket.He never looked back to see who was on his six.Now if I were a BG looking to do evil that day,who in that little shop would I shoot first?If you are going to OC be situationaly aware or you'll be the one shot in the back.Been carrying CC and OC 23 years now,and I can say there are positives and negatives to both.And if your not aware you will get it in the back!

Click to expand...

Ed69 said:

Ok so insults and sarcasm are how the members of this forum educate?Great way to win over more converts!

Teach don't insult.

Click to expand...

If the young man had turned to look at you, what would he have seen? A man waiting to order....really you criticize him for not having x-ray vision?

Actually, don't see that you've been insulted here, but people are less than tolerant of urban myths and old wives tales being perpetuated as gospel.

OC teaches/educates quite well thank you. Should we do so with a smile - of course, but will not allow false information to be spoken of as fact either.

Ed69 said:

If you are going to OC be situationaly aware or you'll be the one shot in the back.Been carrying CC and OC 23 years now,and I can say there are positives and negatives to both.And if your not aware you will get it in the back!

Click to expand...

Grapeshot said:

Actually, don't see that you've been insulted here, but people are less than tolerant of urban myths and old wives tales being perpetuated as gospel.
OC teaches/educates quite well thank you. Should we do so with a smile - of course, but will not allow false information to be spoken of as fact either.

Click to expand...

stu·pid
/ˈsto͞opid/
Adjective
Lacking intelligence or common sense.

The idea of someone coming up behind me and staeling my weapon is ludicrous. Yes, I did the "steal my gun" drill with my holster to check retention. The "fact" that BGs will pick me out and shoot me is "stupid". As Grape stated, we are less tolerant of things that smack falsely. This is not meant to be negative, but informative. We have all heard it before from CC people, "you will be shot first". It's just not there mate.

You can find plenty of examples of where an openly armed person was in a business, and the robber could not get out of there fast enough...There are cases wher a CC guy was robbed, of his valuables, and his gun, but there is a challange out to show one verifiable case where a person that was OC and just minding his own business has ever been relieved of his sidearm. The person with the challenge is on the VA forum if you want to try sell a case to him.

Occationally LE will have their weapon taken and turned against them, but that is not the norm, and LE actively put themselves in situations a normal citizen would (should) not. There is a reason most LE openly carries their weapons...it is called the deterant effect, and it is effective.

I guess I'll add my .02 I prefer open carry because if I need it it's easy if its under my shirt or on my ankle I'm at a disadvantage. Nobody tells a cop to conceal his weapon.. (Unless they be detective or what have u) and yea it works as a security guard would at a mall it steers those who would try to rob or whatever away cause they can see I mean to protect myself and my family. Anyway ... So how about that Alabama trying to legalize guns at work? Anyone read that one?


-Matt of Hillsboro OR-