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Thread: Constiututional Carry Bill - Drafting

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Constiututional Carry Bill - Drafting

    It's the time in the legislative session to get drafting bills for next session.

    I'd like to get input on what laws need to be repealed/modified to establish constitutional carry (while retaining a CPL in Michigan for reciprocity purposes). There is a grass roots political group in Michigan that is considering making "Constitutional Carry" their "offensive legislative issue" for 2013/2014.

    Here are some laws that come to the top of my mind:

    MCL 750.227 (associated Sentencing guideline statute...?)
    MCL 750.234d
    MCL 28.425o

    I look forward to your thoughts. If someone has a bill/bill package drafted, please email it to me: PHofmeister@miopencarry.org
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    MCL 750.234d would need to go, MCL 28.422 should go too or be majorly altered but kept if for some reason it causes a reciprocity issue to ditch it (I do like having it for the GFSZA, but getting rid of it for con carry and still having optional CPLs for travel would be cool) ACT 75 OF 2006 would have to be at least changed some, MCL 28.425f would need some changing, ideally MCL 750.227c would go but that might be asking a bit much, MCL 750.227d should probably go but doesn't have to since it stipulates "except as otherwise permitted by law".

    Possible things to be put into the bill would be some kind of stipulation that everyone who is 18 (or 21, if that's what is insisted on) who is a legal resident is "licensed" by the state to carry concealed for the purposes of the GFSZA.

    That I do believe would be the basics. There are plenty of other things that would ice the cake, but probably in such a far fetched way that at least for now they don't bear mentioning.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    MCL 750.234d would need to go, MCL 28.422 should go too or be majorly altered but kept if for some reason it causes a reciprocity issue to ditch it (I do like having it for the GFSZA, but getting rid of it for con carry and still having optional CPLs for travel would be cool) ACT 75 OF 2006 would have to be at least changed some, MCL 28.425f would need some changing, ideally MCL 750.227c would go but that might be asking a bit much, MCL 750.227d should probably go but doesn't have to since it stipulates "except as otherwise permitted by law".

    Possible things to be put into the bill would be some kind of stipulation that everyone who is 18 (or 21, if that's what is insisted on) who is a legal resident is "licensed" by the state to carry concealed for the purposes of the GFSZA.

    That I do believe would be the basics. There are plenty of other things that would ice the cake, but probably in such a far fetched way that at least for now they don't bear mentioning.
    I agree

    Willing to draft a bill?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I can say having lived in both MI & now in AZ Constitutional carry is far better in my honest opinion. AZ still has a permit system. It is administered by the state police, which is far superior in my opinion as it keeps the red tape to a minimum. What can take up to six months in Wayne Co. (receive CPL) is usually four weeks in AZ.
    AZ CCW holders have reciprocity with 36 states including MI

    This setup allows all law abiding citizens to protect themselves, even if they should choose not to pay the $60 for a CCW (CPL).

    Link to AZ SB 1108 which made Con. Carry the Law in AZ.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kC1b43a8VBKZsw
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 11-18-2012 at 07:48 PM. Reason: legal dyslexia
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I can say having lived in both MI & now in AZ Constitutional carry is far better in my honest opinion. AZ still has a permit system. It is administered by the state police, which is far superior in my opinion as it keeps the red tape to a minimum. What can take up to six months in Wayne Co. (receive CPL) is usually four weeks in AZ.
    AZ CCW holders have reciprocity with 40 states including MI .

    This setup allows all law abiding citizens to protect themselves, even if they should choose not to pay the $60 for a CCW (CPL).

    Link to AZ SB 1108 which made Con. Carry the Law in AZ.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kC1b43a8VBKZsw


    It'd be lovely if you could take a bill from one state and apply it to another. Sadly each state's laws are unique and a bill package really needs to be assembled for each state and its laws.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  6. #6
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I agree

    Willing to draft a bill?
    May I suggest that you guys contact Jared. He has experience in this area and is one of the people responsible for me being able to carry automatic knives (switch blades) in addition to my pistols. All without worrying about the local PD, as knives are also preempted in AZ.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #7
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It'd be lovely if you could take a bill from one state and apply it to another. Sadly each state's laws are unique and a bill package really needs to be assembled for each state and its laws.
    Understood, but it gives you guys a rough template to work from.

    Also, I live in the "Valley" a large area very similar to the Metro Detroit area in demographics, with both very rich and less well off areas very close to one another. So the argument that MI is so unique from other areas is bunk. Since the inception of Constitution Carry over two years ago, crime has gone down, not up as the anti's claimed it would. Go figure
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 11-18-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: cleaned up code in the quoted field
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I agree

    Willing to draft a bill?
    I'm not really qualified to ghost write legislation since I have no experience with it. I would however suggest having a brainstorming session at some point, as in you, me, and as many other qualified people as wish to be involved.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    May I suggest that you guys contact Jared. He has experience in this area and is one of the people responsible for me being able to carry automatic knives (switch blades) in addition to my pistols. All without worrying about the local PD, as knives are also preempted in AZ.

    Also Fred (AzCDL) on the AZ forum helped to get Con Carry written. It can help to pick the brains of those who have done it before you. I know MI is so special... but it can't hurt to get their thoughts.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    May I suggest that you guys contact Jared. He has experience in this area and is one of the people responsible for me being able to carry automatic knives (switch blades) in addition to my pistols. All without worrying about the local PD, as knives are also preempted in AZ.
    It just so happens he's in my Roladex. I've reached out to him and he's agreed to help.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It just so happens he's in my Roladex. I've reached out to him and he's agreed to help.
    Wise...very wise Sir.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    MCL 750.234d would need to go, MCL 28.422 should go too or be majorly altered but kept if for some reason it causes a reciprocity issue to ditch it (I do like having it for the GFSZA, but getting rid of it for con carry and still having optional CPLs for travel would be cool) ACT 75 OF 2006 would have to be at least changed some, MCL 28.425f would need some changing, ideally MCL 750.227c would go but that might be asking a bit much, MCL 750.227d should probably go but doesn't have to since it stipulates "except as otherwise permitted by law".

    Possible things to be put into the bill would be some kind of stipulation that everyone who is 18 (or 21, if that's what is insisted on) who is a legal resident is "licensed" by the state to carry concealed for the purposes of the GFSZA.

    That I do believe would be the basics. There are plenty of other things that would ice the cake, but probably in such a far fetched way that at least for now they don't bear mentioning.
    I don't see it completely working. But IANAL so I could be wrong. And I do think that true constitutional carry includes anyone who can legally own can legally carry (18 year olds).
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    It's the time in the legislative session to get drafting bills for next session.

    I'd like to get input on what laws need to be repealed/modified to establish constitutional carry (while retaining a CPL in Michigan for reciprocity purposes). There is a grass roots political group in Michigan that is considering making "Constitutional Carry" their "offensive legislative issue" for 2013/2014.

    Here are some laws that come to the top of my mind:

    MCL 750.227 (associated Sentencing guideline statute...?)
    MCL 750.234d
    MCL 28.425o

    I look forward to your thoughts. If someone has a bill/bill package drafted, please email it to me: PHofmeister@miopencarry.org
    750.231a?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  14. #14
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Here's hoping this idea takes root in MI. Having lived in both states, even though AZ still has some small issues to fix. Constitutional carry would be far better & safer, than the current crazy carry system/laws in MI for NON CPL holders in MI.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Really no need for the OP to start looking at the laws that need to be changed -- his legislator is there for that.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Constiututional Carry Bill - Drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Really no need for the OP to start looking at the laws that need to be changed -- his legislator is there for that.
    Hi. I'm a gun rights lobbyist, and you are?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  17. #17
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    Here's a rough draft:

    An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing,

    possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting

    devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain

    firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other

    authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under

    certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to

    provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances;

    to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local

    agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply

    for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make

    appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the

    appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts

    inconsistent with this act,"

    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

    Sec. 1. (1) MCL 28.425o is repealed in it's entirety.
    (2) MCL 750.234d is repealed in it's entirety.
    (3) MCL 750.224b is repealed in it's entirety.
    (4) MCL 28.422a is repealed in it's entirety.

    Sec. 2. (1) MCL Section 28.422 is amended to read: (red text means struck, bold is new)

    Sec. 2.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.A person may apply for an optional license under this section to purchase, carry, or posses a pistol for the purposes of complying with the federal gun free school zones act. A person who applies for such a license, and is eligible to receive it under this section shall be issued that license. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require a person to apply for this license.

    (2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.

    (32) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

    (i) Section 464a of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

    (ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

    (iii) Section 2950 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

    (iv) Section 2950a of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

    (v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

    (vi) Section 6b of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

    (vii) Section 16b of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:

    (i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.

    (ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.

    (iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.

    (iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.

    (d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 54b against the person is not pending at the time of application.

    (e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

    (f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

    (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

    (h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

    (i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.

    (43) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols shall be executed in quadruplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Four copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date it is issued.

    (54) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The return of the copies to the licensing authority may be made in person or may be made by first-class mail or certified mail sent within the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A purchaser who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a purchaser is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination.

    (65) Within 48 hours after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (54), the licensing authority shall forward 1 copy of the license to the department of state police. The licensing authority shall retain the other copy of the license as an official record for not less than 6 years. Within 10 days after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (54), the licensing authority shall electronically enter the information into the pistol entry database as required by the department of state police if it has the ability to electronically enter that information. If the licensing authority does not have that ability, the licensing authority shall provide that information to the department of state police in a manner otherwise required by the department of state police. Any licensing authority that provided pistol descriptions to the department of state police under former section 98 of this act shall continue to provide pistol descriptions to the department of state police under this subsection. The purchaser has the right to obtain a copy of the information placed in the pistol entry database under this subsection to verify the accuracy of that information. The licensing authority may charge a fee not to exceed $1.00 for the cost of providing the copy. The licensee may carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition only while he or she is in possession of his or her copy of the license. However, the person is not required to have the license in his or her possession while carrying, using, possessing, or transporting the pistol after this period.

    (76) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.

    (87) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.

    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.

    (98) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (87)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

    (109) The licensing authority may require a person claiming active duty status with the United States armed forces to provide proof of 1 or both of the following:

    (a) The person's home of record.

    (b) Permanent active duty assignment in this state.

    (1110) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)2(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.

    (b) The person is at a recognized target range.

    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.

    (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person.

    (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present.

    (1211) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a pistol.

    (b) The person is at a recognized target range or shooting facility.

    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.

    (d) The owner of the pistol is physically present and supervising the use of the pistol.

    (1312) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:

    (a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.

    (b) Safe storage of pistols.

    (c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.

    (d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.

    (1413) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 98b.

    (1514) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (1312) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.

    (1615) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

    (1716) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (43).

    Sec. 3. (1) MCL 123.1102 is amended to read:

    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, or knives, or any other weapon,except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. Any local unit of government who violates this section shall be fined not less than $10,000 per day the violation exists effective 30 days from the passage of this section. Any person who is a police officer, or a government official who attempts to enforce any violation of this section shall be guilty of a felony, and shall be fined under this section not less than $10,000, and imprisoned for not less than 1 year.

    It could use some more polishing, like making CPL's voluntary (for purposes of reciprocity, but I'm out of time tonight, it's a start anyway.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Constiututional Carry Bill - Drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I can say having lived in both MI & now in AZ Constitutional carry is far better in my honest opinion. AZ still has a permit system. It is administered by the state police, which is far superior in my opinion as it keeps the red tape to a minimum. What can take up to six months in Wayne Co. (receive CPL) is usually four weeks in AZ.
    AZ CCW holders have reciprocity with 40 states including MI .

    This setup...
    I support Constitutional Carry too, but one small correction: AZ has reciprocity w/ 36 states, MI has reciprocity with 40.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USReciprocity.pdf
    Last edited by DrTodd; 11-18-2012 at 03:06 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  19. #19
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    ......
    Sec. 2. (1) MCL Section 28.422 is amended to read: (red text means struck, bold is new)
    .....
    Just an FYI for you in the future that you can use 'strike' tags:

    [strike] struck text [/strike]
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  20. #20
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I support Constitutional Carry too, but one small correction: AZ has reciprocity w/ 36 states, MI has reciprocity with 40.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USReciprocity.pdf
    As you can imagine it is easy to swap figures when trying to track two state's worth of statues. Thanks for the help DrTodd. I imagine the four state hit comes from the fact that AZ issues non resident permits?

    http://www.azdps.gov/services/concea...s/reciprocity/
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 11-18-2012 at 07:53 PM. Reason: DPS link
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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  21. #21
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Question

    Any updates on the draft process?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  22. #22
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Any updates on the draft process?
    No one's handed me anything yet


    I have many many things to do: President of MOC, Ingham County Coordinator for C4L, Work Full time, keeping up a house, etc. I'm looking for someone to help. Will you?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  23. #23
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    No one's handed me anything yet


    I have many many things to do: President of MOC, Ingham County Coordinator for C4L, Work Full time, keeping up a house, etc. I'm looking for someone to help. Will you?
    Phil please do not take this personally. I was not addressing this directly to you. We have all heard about how busy your life is many, many, times. As our most of ours. I was just kind of giving a general bump/how's it going.

    I'd be happy to do my best, be it research etc... just let me know what it is you (or others) would like to work on.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    I'd be happy to do my best, be it research etc... just let me know what it is you (or others) would like to work on.


    I need someone to take the lead in drafting. Someone who will get ideas from others, write something, and work with me on getting a package put together. Sounds like I can count on you, thanks
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I need someone to take the lead in drafting. Someone who will get ideas from others, write something, and work with me on getting a package put together. Sounds like I can count on you, thanks
    Translation - you need someone to do it all, and you'll take it from there... oh, I see. I see business as usual, you have a bright future in Lansing Phil. Seriously so we are starting from the ground up ok. Lets break this project into chunks as I've been told that's the only sane way to attempt to eat an elephant. Now I'm going to go to bed and try to forget this day happened. Carry on..openly..for now..
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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