Secession from the union

The bigger question is...

What happens to our Constitutional rights if/when the state has seceeded? I assume we would lose the protection of the US Constitution, right? I understand the states have Constitutions as well, but this seems to be dangerous ground.

I find it odd that I have been watching fox, cnn and several local channels on tv and I have yet to see that first news story on this. Just on the internet. Apparently they don't even find it news worthy. The cia sex scandal is bigger and taking over the air.

KYKevin said:

I find it odd that I have been watching fox, cnn and several local channels on tv and I have yet to see that first news story on this. Just on the internet. Apparently they don't even find it news worthy. The cia sex scandal is bigger and taking over the air.

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Thats the best we get from .gov run media sites. They want to keep it as under the radar as possible.

Tucker6900 said:

Thats the best we get from .gov run media sites. They want to keep it as under the radar as possible.

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Well if that is the case then it is both republicans and democrats.

What I find even more odd is that state governors are not speaking out nor are any of our state representatives in Washington D.C.

They don't want things to change. The real truth is all states have become welfare or nanny states of the Feds. I guess when it comes to welfare among the states it is the 100% feeding off the Feds.

States don't want to say no the the free money the Feds give out every year.

The people who work for our states in D.C. don't want to lose their D.C. jobs and the ones in the states want to get to D.C. later don't want to lose out on that chance.

Since our state leaders have not spoken up It is probably safe to say that even if secession did happen. We would still be faced with the same problems within the states.

Why is everyone attributing these petitions to the states rather than to the individuals(some not even living in the states they petitioned for!) that launched the petitions?

This is not a state initiative. It's an initiative launched by a few people in various states. They're doing it all wrong, even if the fedgov were to listen to them, they would still have to convince their state legislatures and probably most of the people in their state first. There is nothing that suggests any of these states would even consider secession.

These petitions are like chain letters, but worse because the people reading them are attributing the 'letters' to someone the letters don't even try to attribute themselves to.

Jack House said:

Why is everyone attributing these petitions to the states rather than to the individuals(some not even living in the states they petitioned for!) that launched the petitions?

This is not a state initiative. It's an initiative launched by a few people in various states. They're doing it all wrong, even if the fedgov were to listen to them, they would still have to convince their state legislatures and probably most of the people in their state first. There is nothing that suggests any of these states would even consider secession.

These petitions are like chain letters, but worse because the people reading them are attributing the 'letters' to someone the letters don't even try to attribute themselves to.

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If you mean me I know these were started by individuals. But I don't see em going any where with out support from their elected officials. They need to stand up and support the people of the states. Without them I see little happening is all I am saying.

And with a state like Texas with 25+ million. I don't see the white house even taking 25,000 very serious. I could be wrong though. We will see where it goes. I know a lot of people are passionate about this whole secession thing and how the election turned out. But I don't think people are really thinking it through either. And I agree they are doing it wrong. But none the less it is interesting to follow and see where it goes.

It is encouraging that secession is no longer a four letter word.

“Good Morning, Governor, how might we…”

“Mr. President, I realize you are a busy man so let’s get down to brass tacks…we are calling the ball and withdrawing our support of your Administration and the Federal government in DC. Effective immediately, we have coordinated to place all outgoing receipts to the IRS in a caged account here in Boise…”

“Governor, you can’t do that…”

“Please don’t interrupt while I am speaking as we are from this point onward peers in the family of nations. I hope you have reviewed the diplomatic instruments we sent by courier last night to Department of State which delineates the terms of our divorce.”

“I did receive those and you have no earthly idea the can of whoop-…”

“Please, sir, maintain the decorum of these proceedings so we can move forward to an amicable separation. I give you my personal assurance on the safety and well-being of all Federal personnel we have detained for immediate repatriation to the remainder of these United States. Any non-law enforcement Federal personnel who wish to remain behind will be permitted to do so.”

“I hope you have thought through the consequences of what you are embarking on.”

“Mr. President, we have had over two hundred years to give the rulers on the Potomac a chance but that time has expired. Effective immediately, all so-called Federal lands now belong to the nation of Idaho and we will dispose of these lands at our leisure. In the interest of burying the hatchet, we will not seek compensation for the seizure, abuse and tenure of Federal practices on the aforementioned land and call the balance even.”

“Those are my lands, Governor…”

“In actuality, they belong to neither of us, sir. On to other business, I have alerted my National Guard forces to establish checkpoints at all the main arterials in and out of Idaho. All National Guard forces deployed overseas will return home in the next 48 hours. I would also caution you on the use of military force to convince Idaho and its citizens to forcibly return to the yoke of the Union. Idaho has a well-deserved reputation as a rather well-equipped state in firearms possession and use. As Yamamoto said, you may find a rifle behind every blade of grass.”

“Are you threatening the president of the United States?”

“No, sir, I am simply making an observation about the hazards of one country invading another.”

See the rest: http://zerogov.com/?p=2689

Tucker6900 said:

What happens to our Constitutional rights if/when the state has seceeded? I assume we would lose the protection of the US Constitution, right? I understand the states have Constitutions as well, but this seems to be dangerous ground.

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What rights does the US Constutution protect now? They have destroyed our First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eight, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments of the Bill of Rights. Honestly, what good is the US Constitution these days when it is completely ignored?

The Kentucky Constitution protects my rights better than the US Constitution, and the General Assembly of Kentucky abides by the Constitution much better than the US Congress.

The states need to stand together and abolish the current government and either institute a new national government or do away with it altogether. We have been witness to the damage a national government can cause -- not only do they cause severe damage to the states and people, they also cause significant damage to other sovereign nations.

The states must band together if we are ever going to rid ouselves of the mistake which is the Federal Government.

I am not speaking of doing this with violence; I am speaking of exerting the power the states have ALWAYS had over the Federal Government. If a majority of the states refuse to continue allowing the Federal Government to trample the will of the people, what can the Federal Government do about it? The Federal Government has NO power without the states allowing them to have it, and that would be the end of it.

KYGlockster said:

What rights does the US Constutution protect now? They have destroyed our First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eight, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments of the Bill of Rights. Honestly, what good is the US Constitution these days when it is completely ignored?

The Kentucky Constitution protects my rights better than the US Constitution, and the General Assembly of Kentucky abides by the Constitution much better than the US Congress.

The states need to stand together and abolish the current government and either institute a new national government or do away with it altogether. We have been witness to the damage a national government can cause -- not only do they cause severe damage to the states and people, they also cause significant damage to other sovereign nations.

The states must band together if we are ever going to rid ouselves of the mistake which is the Federal Government.

I am not speaking of doing this with violence; I am speaking of exerting the power the states have ALWAYS had over the Federal Government. If a majority of the states refuse to continue allowing the Federal Government to trample the will of the people, what can the Federal Government do about it? The Federal Government has NO power without the states allowing them to have it, and that would be the end of it.

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I agree with you 100%. However I do not think the states will do this for fear of losing money they get from the Federal Government. That is how the Federal Government maintains control and the states are addicted to it.

KYKevin said:

I agree with you 100%. However I do not think the states will do this for fear of losing money they get from the Federal Government. That is how the Federal Government maintains control and the states are addicted to it.

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That's a good point. The flow of money through quartley payments to the IRS must be dealt with. Perhaps instead of a con-con or succesion, we begin work to give steam to the political goal of repealing the 16th amendment. Many here have proposed the idea before and it would be a good start. I think it's an issue a large majority can agree on.

georg jetson said:

That's a good point. The flow of money through quartley payments to the IRS must be dealt with. Perhaps instead of a con-con or succesion, we begin work to give steam to the political goal of repealing the 16th amendment. Many here have proposed the idea before and it would be a good start. I think it's an issue a large majority can agree on.

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Why can't a state "cage" all outgoing funds to the IRS, companies could do the same. The Fed may print the monopoly money but the lion's share of it is electronic credits and debits. The states may fear the loss of income but the central government does not only get it by printing a fiat currency but by robbing Peter to pay Paul until Paul is broke or fed up.

Tucker6900 said:

What happens to our Constitutional rights if/when the state has seceeded? I assume we would lose the protection of the US Constitution, right? I understand the states have Constitutions as well, but this seems to be dangerous ground.

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The Constitution was intended only to protect our rights from federal infringement. Incorporation is a despicable and recent revision of that intent. Your rights should also be enshrined in your State constitution. If they are not, I suggest moving.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Jack House said:

Why is everyone attributing these petitions to the states rather than to the individuals(some not even living in the states they petitioned for!) that launched the petitions?

This is not a state initiative. It's an initiative launched by a few people in various states. They're doing it all wrong, even if the fedgov were to listen to them, they would still have to convince their state legislatures and probably most of the people in their state first. There is nothing that suggests any of these states would even consider secession.

These petitions are like chain letters, but worse because the people reading them are attributing the 'letters' to someone the letters don't even try to attribute themselves to.

Click to expand...

Yeah. That.

I've been trying to say that, just not as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

lysander6 said:

It is encouraging that secession is no longer a four letter word.

“Good Morning, Governor, how might we…”

“Mr. President, I realize you are a busy man so let’s get down to brass tacks…we are calling the ball and withdrawing our support of your Administration and the Federal government in DC. Effective immediately, we have coordinated to place all outgoing receipts to the IRS in a caged account here in Boise…”

“Governor, you can’t do that…”

“Please don’t interrupt while I am speaking as we are from this point onward peers in the family of nations. I hope you have reviewed the diplomatic instruments we sent by courier last night to Department of State which delineates the terms of our divorce.”

“I did receive those and you have no earthly idea the can of whoop-…”

“Please, sir, maintain the decorum of these proceedings so we can move forward to an amicable separation. I give you my personal assurance on the safety and well-being of all Federal personnel we have detained for immediate repatriation to the remainder of these United States. Any non-law enforcement Federal personnel who wish to remain behind will be permitted to do so.”

“I hope you have thought through the consequences of what you are embarking on.”

“Mr. President, we have had over two hundred years to give the rulers on the Potomac a chance but that time has expired. Effective immediately, all so-called Federal lands now belong to the nation of Idaho and we will dispose of these lands at our leisure. In the interest of burying the hatchet, we will not seek compensation for the seizure, abuse and tenure of Federal practices on the aforementioned land and call the balance even.”

“Those are my lands, Governor…”

“In actuality, they belong to neither of us, sir. On to other business, I have alerted my National Guard forces to establish checkpoints at all the main arterials in and out of Idaho. All National Guard forces deployed overseas will return home in the next 48 hours. I would also caution you on the use of military force to convince Idaho and its citizens to forcibly return to the yoke of the Union. Idaho has a well-deserved reputation as a rather well-equipped state in firearms possession and use. As Yamamoto said, you may find a rifle behind every blade of grass.”

“Are you threatening the president of the United States?”

“No, sir, I am simply making an observation about the hazards of one country invading another.”

See the rest: http://zerogov.com/?p=2689

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Wow! That is interesting! Thank you!

KYKevin said:

Wonder how this will go?

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That's funny!

Texas, some whopping 77,000 signed, out of a 25 million. I bet it was 77,000 Illegals thinking it will be returned to Mexico.

Jack House said:

Why is everyone attributing these petitions to the states rather than to the individuals(some not even living in the states they petitioned for!) that launched the petitions.

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Interesting conversation nonetheless.

KYKevin said:

I find it odd that I have been watching fox, cnn and several local channels on tv and I have yet to see that first news story on this. Just on the internet. Apparently they don't even find it news worthy. The cia sex scandal is bigger and taking over the air.

Click to expand...

I see the CIA "sex scandal" as a smokescreen, designed to redirect/misdirect the attention of the masses to something other than the, thus-far, low grumblings of a dissatisfied people. The lamestream media's job is to help maintain the illusion that Obama (and his Communist cabinet and his corrupt agenda) has the full support of the country. What better way to do that than with a juicy sex scandal story, capable of holding the attention of the populace for an extended period of time? I find it interesting that this story (which was "under investigation by the FBI for months") - was unknown to anyone outside the FBI. Does the FBI not report to their boss, Janet Napolitano, who in-turn reports such events to Obama? The timing (and the unusually passionate sense of urgency) of the report of this liaison, coupled with a 5 day delay in publishing unemployment figures (among others) until AFTER the election, makes me wonder if it was an attempt to avoid the potential for vote shifting information to reach the public prior to the election.

I believe the secessionist "movement" (if you want to call it that) is more of a cry for help from a large number of disenchanted citizens. Much like casting a ballot for Gary Johnson - who stood no chance whatsoever of being elected - was motivated by individual conscience, so is the expression of a desire to secede from the Union of States an expression of great dissatisfaction with our national direction. The chances of requests for approval of secession are less than zero - more like a negative 5. (Besides, whoever came up with the ridiculous idea that a group/class/state of people had to get "approval" to break away from the union?) Treasonous act? No. An act of severe disaffection? Probably. It's a way for those who are disaffected to vent. Is it a "safe" way to vent? That depends on the government's response to such a request, and the people's response to that response. Supposedly, each state is sovereign, and as a sovereign state they have certain rights - those which are not specifically (and Constitutionally) delegated to the federal government or the people. If a sovereign does not have the right to self-determination, then it has only the vacillating illusion of sovereignty. If any/all states were to officially endorse and embrace this "movement", what choice other than capitulation would the feds have? Pax...

P.S. The secessionists could then apply to whatever remained of the U.S. for "foreign aid"!

Tucker6900 said:

What happens to our Constitutional rights if/when the state has seceeded? I assume we would lose the protection of the US Constitution, right? I understand the states have Constitutions as well, but this seems to be dangerous ground.

Click to expand...

It is dangerous ground.

First, as KYGlockster points out, the federal constitution doesn't really offer much in the way of protection.

And, a little history is instructive.

We're all taught at an early age how wonderful the founders were: championing liberty, blah, blah, blah. When you dig a little deeper a different story emerges.

When you dig a little deeper you find that many of the founders were also some of the same guys who ended up in the early fedgov. And, you find they were just as power-mad as the parliamentarians and ministers they threw off. The Federalists (supporters of the constitution) wrote the Alien and Sedition Acts. John Adams styled himself somewhat like a king during his presidency--hunt up contemporary references to wearing a sword and enjoying pomp. Alexander Hamilton's financial machinations were clearly aimed at empowering the fedgov at the expense of the average citizen. These guys and their ilk were thick enough on the ground in 1787 to shift the balance of power to themselves. The number of delegates who walked out of the constitutional convention because they didn't have authority to write a new scheme of government was actually fairly small.

Where did almost all of these federal founders come from? The state governments. They were not all members of government at the exact time they served as delegates to the convention. Of course not. Or, during ratification. But many of them were members of the state government prior.

If you think about it, there is more than a little plausibility to say that many of the founders were power-hungry themselves and were willing to throw off the king in order to secure more power for themselves. A king's taxes kinda get in the way of your own state tax collections, you know. History strongly suggests more than a few of the founders didn't throw of the king for everybody's liberty, but for their own which they were eager to use to set themselves up in power. Historically, its a rare revolution where the leaders of the revolution said at the end of fighting, "OK, I'm done. The rest of you set up something nice; I'm going back to my plow." Which is just another way of saying historically most revolutions end up with a government as bad or worse than the one overthrown. No reason to think our founders were so much of an exception that they all lacked a lust for power for themselves.

And, where did our federal founders come from? The state governments.

Plus, I am sure many readers have direct observation of the nuttiness of their state governors, legislators, and courts, needing to derive nothing from history.

So, if secession comes up, guess where the weasels and power-lusters will be? And, if state constitutions get re-written, guess who's going to have a big hand in the re-writing?

I guess I'm a little dense. What good would a con-con do? They ignore the constitution anyways, what makes anyone think they would pay attention to changes?

Updated news story.

http://news.yahoo.com/secession-petitions-gain-clicks-fast-202910814--abc-news-politics.html