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Thread: RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. Surviving an Active Shooter Event

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    Regular Member TheGrabber's Avatar
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    RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. Surviving an Active Shooter Event



    The city of Houston, TX has produced a video on this subject, and it boils down what you should do to three simple words: Run, hide, fight.

    If there is an active shooter in the building, experts said your first instinct should be to run. Get out quickly and quietly, take others with you if you can, but don't let people who resist running slow you down.

    If it is too late to evacuate, hide. Get behind a locked door, or blockade it. Stay behind large objects that could protect you from gunfire. Silence your cell phone, and stay as quiet as possible.

    Finally, as a last resort, and only if your life is in danger, fight.

    This video was made with the help of a grant from the Department of Homeland Security.



    What are your thoughts?
    I'm not a lawyer, psychologist, or LEO. This means, don't rely on my opinion to work for you.
    But I am a railroad conductor.
    “Breathes their a man with a soul so dead, that does not thrill to the sound of a passing train?”

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    If the active shooter is not specifically interested in me, those might be my priorities, too, and I certainly retain the option to save my own ass at the expense of the sheep. Disclaimer: I didn't watch the video.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Several things come to my mind

    1) They admit in the first minute of the video that police cannot protect you at all times

    2) Look at 1:00 that, that text on the door is what's called a "30.06 sign" that cites Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 Basically it is specifically illegal for a CHL holder with a pistol to enter a business with that legally defined sign or they can face trespass charges automatically whether they're told to leave or not. So the government of houston made it a specific point to show the killer entering a self defense free zone and beginning his rampage

    3) They re-iterated that the cops are not there to assist you in any way except to stop the shooter when they first respond to the incident.

    Frankly I would've thought that the NRA edited the video for them with how many pro-gun themes and arguments were addressed in this video.

    I actually think it's a good work. It gives practical advice for the average employee working in an area where their employer does not permit people to be armed, as far as how to protect yourself if you're unarmed this video is not bad at all as an educational tool.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I couldn't resist. I had to come back and watch it. I think it was very well done, from the perspective of a place full of unarmed victims, but then that's the real problem, isn't it?

    What if a room-clearing cop had been the first one to open that break room door? Bummer.

    How is it being seen in Houston? Government employees, or is it somehow available to the private sector?

    Do all 30.06 signs have weight-of-law in Texas, or just ones posted at certain places?
    Last edited by MAC702; 11-12-2012 at 09:41 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I couldn't resist. I had to come back and watch it. I think it was very well done, from the perspective of a place full of unarmed victims, but then that's the real problem, isn't it?

    What if a room-clearing cop had been the first one to open that break room door? Bummer.

    How is it being seen in Houston? Government employees, or is it somehow available to the private sector?

    Do all 30.06 signs have weight-of-law in Texas, or just ones posted at certain places?
    From what I understand a 30.06 sign DOES have weight of law, one can be arrested, cited, license revoked for carrying past a sign. however if you read the link i embedded, the law specifically defines how the sign must appear, down to the font and size of the lettering. if the sign doesn't meet those exacting requirements then it does not have weight of law.

    The Texas Penal Code Sec 30.06 itself does not reference any specific locations, just any property (i'm assuming private property) that is conspicously posted with the legally specific valid sign.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

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    Regular Member Lasjayhawk's Avatar
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    Is it ok if before I run, hide, and fight I empty 2 magazines into the bad guy?

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    Not bad for what it is.

    My cynicism compels me to ask how much the video cost taxpayers
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    My cynicism compels me to ask why the shooter resembles a soldier.....or Vin Diesel.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasjayhawk View Post
    Is it ok if before I run, hide, and fight I empty 2 magazines into the bad guy?
    Yep. I, too, am one of those people that walks into gunfire rather than run and hide. I think "cover, concealment, return fire" works better for me.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Yep. I, too, am one of those people that walks into gunfire rather than run and hide. I think "cover, concealment, return fire" works better for me.
    Yeah but in Washington there is no equivelant of the "30.06 sign" no sign holds weight of law so you generally must be asked to leave before trespassing charges can be filed (unless it's obvious you're trespassing like climbing a fence or something)

    Also the building in the video also appeared to be an office building, meaning likely it was full of employees (who are probably not allowed to bring weapons to work) and clients of those businesses who have to heed the "disarm sign" and are likely on company time (meaning they can't carry per their employment terms anyway)

    Now in our great state of Washington we don't have "force of law" disarm signs except on specific types of buildings like courthouses spelled out in state law. Which now means the question is, is carrying a gun on you at work worth your job if you get caught? but in Texas not only could you be fired, you could be CHARGED with a crime too.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Yeah but in Washington there is no equivelant of the "30.06 sign" no sign holds weight of law so you generally must be asked to leave before trespassing charges can be filed (unless it's obvious you're trespassing like climbing a fence or something)

    Also the building in the video also appeared to be an office building, meaning likely it was full of employees (who are probably not allowed to bring weapons to work) and clients of those businesses who have to heed the "disarm sign" and are likely on company time (meaning they can't carry per their employment terms anyway)

    Now in our great state of Washington we don't have "force of law" disarm signs except on specific types of buildings like courthouses spelled out in state law. Which now means the question is, is carrying a gun on you at work worth your job if you get caught? but in Texas not only could you be fired, you could be CHARGED with a crime too.
    What does this have to do with Lagae's post?

    He is simply talking tactics not legality or allowance of carry.

    I am of the mindset better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Saw this vid a few months ago. I was particularly impressed with the useless 'security' guard who was more interested in flirting with the women! I to would be the guy telling others to run & hide, while I cover their retreat. If the BG comes our way, he's gonna get every bullet I've got. "All that is required for Evil to succeed is that good men do nothing." -E. Burke.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    The problem with such concepts has and will always be that it does absolutely nothing for the first people in contact with the shooter. For those contacts it's a guaranteed body count (death or injury). This applies even more so to what LE is pimping to colleges known as A.L.I.C.E. Address the first contact issue and they'll quickly shut you up and keep you away from the entire program.

    One even tried to use the VT shooting to claim that they could have ran into the courtyard. I illustrated a particular bell tower shooting in Texas (illustrating that Columbine and VT WERE NOT the first times in US history as they've often claimed) and just how much of a killing field the courtyard at VT could have been when the VT shooter had the high ground and had a clear view of the courtyard.

    OOPS!

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    An excerpt:
    Are the instructors (and their agencies, such as police departments in the case of School Resource Officers (SROs) or other police department training officers), prepared to absorb the potential liability for the outcome of the training they provide to school students and staff? Does your school district have a formal legal Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with their local law enforcement agency teaching the program which delineates the responsibilities and liabilities assumed by both of the organizations? In addition to the outside trainers, is the school board and administration prepared to accept the potential liability for approving such training?

    http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends...ht_gunmen.html
    Well, there you have it. No "Counter" for you.....or your kid(s).

    By the way, the provided link seems to have neglected "higher education" institutions from their discussion.

    E-mail sent to Mr. Trump:
    Mr. Trump,

    Have you approached colleges regarding A.L.I.C.E. training? Have you discussed this area in any of your blogs? If not, will you? If you will not/have not, why not?

    The lawful carry of a concealed firearm on a college campus is legal in some states. This issue goes beyond a discussion of the "gun" on a "school" campus, but to the denial of a fundamental right for adults to defend themselves by college administrations. If A.L.I.C.E. is effective, as you seem to indicate, then the college campus is where A.L.I.C.E. could be most effective. The "Counter" component is key as a last resort but adults on college campus are treated no different than a kindergartner.

    If the "Counter" portion of A.L.I.C.E. will not be implemented by K-12 institutions why even have that component in your program?

    I look forward to your reply and will be interested in your thoughts on the implementation of A.L.I.C.E. on a college campus.

    OC for ME
    Missouri
    Ironic is it not that the video advocates that you (a adult) "counter" the active shooter as a last resort, yet A.L.I.C.E. does not address college "students."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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