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Thread: Official-like document omits "concealed"

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    Checking the PFZ section near the bottom of:
    http://michigan.gov/documents/ri-012_7736_7.pdf

    I noticed they just said no pistols... Not no concealed etc.

    Any value in bitching to them about it at the county clerk?


    -jakeus

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    It's an MSP document. You'd have to gripe to the MSP. Maybe autosurgeon could reach out to his MSP contacts....?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I've noticed that before just didn't make a thing of it.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    I mentioned the omission of the word concealed to the County Clerk. They said to call the Michigan State police at 517-241-1917.


    -jakeus

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    Regular Member Jakeus314's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    I just got off the phone with them. They referred me to a different person:
    517-241-1906
    Sgt Maike

    The lady said that the word concealed in 425o is essentially a mistake. She also said that because open carry is not specifically allowed in MCL, the law isn't clear on what is legal in PFZ's.

    I think the law is very clear and am rather disturbed by the argument... Like many of you rightfully are. 2A is a right. Do not infringe on my constitutional right.

    Anywho, I'll give Maike a call and see what comes of it.

    -jakeus

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    Maike wrote MSP Legal Update 86 with autosurgeon.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    I will try to send an email off to her tomorrow. If the OP could PM me so we are in the same page in the song book that would be good.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    I just got off the phone with them. They referred me to a different person:
    517-241-1906
    Sgt Maike

    The lady said that the word concealed in 425o is essentially a mistake. She also said that because open carry is not specifically allowed in MCL, the law isn't clear on what is legal in PFZ's.

    I think the law is very clear and am rather disturbed by the argument... Like many of you rightfully are. 2A is a right. Do not infringe on my constitutional right.

    Anywho, I'll give Maike a call and see what comes of it.

    -jakeus
    Interesting because the law itself specifically says "concealed" I wonder why they wouldn't want to put the law in word for word.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Official-like document omits "concealed"

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Interesting because the law itself specifically says "concealed" I wonder why they wouldn't want to put the law in word for word.
    OC is still the red headed step-child of the Michigan 2A community.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeus314 View Post
    The lady said that the word concealed in 425o is essentially a mistake.
    Since when can the police say the laws are a mistake? Does that mean they can cite you because the law is wrong? Sheesh.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Since when can the police say the laws are a mistake? Does that mean they can cite you because the law is wrong? Sheesh.
    Not wrong, just inconvenient.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  12. #12
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    It would seem to me when the CONCEALED carry laws were written the legislature wanted to regulate CONCEALED carry. Which is why we have a CONCEALED pistol license and the laws reference the carry of a CONCEALED pistol. Of course I could very well be wrong.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  13. #13
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    It would seem to me when the CONCEALED carry laws were written the legislature wanted to regulate CONCEALED carry. Which is why we have a CONCEALED pistol license and the laws reference the carry of a CONCEALED pistol. Of course I could very well be wrong.
    Stop using logic.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  14. #14
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Stop using logic.
    Ouch!!! Okay, okay! I'll use illogical fear when it comes to firearm laws.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  15. #15
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    Lol Xman, you've been around long enough to know better than to use logic

    The more sense it makes the more confusing it is to those people.
    Last edited by Yance; 11-15-2012 at 06:00 PM.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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