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Thread: Carrying firearms on buses

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    Carrying firearms on buses

    So the City of Oklahoma City wants the legislature to change some things because they can't prevent people from openly carrying firearms on the city buses. I thought it was because they were probably charging concealed carriers with disturbing the peace or something similar, which can't be done for simply open carrying.

    However, I was browsing statutes for something else the other day and came across this little gem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1903, Item D
    No person, other than an authorized law enforcement officer, shall board a bus with a dangerous or deadly weapon concealed upon or about his person. Upon the discovery of any such item or material, the company may obtain possession and retain custody of such item or material until it is transferred to the custody of law enforcement officers. Any person convicted of violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony, and shall, upon conviction, be imprisoned for not more than ten (10) years, or fined not more than Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00), or both
    It sure would be good if someone included this in the SDA class.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    I never saw this before. Wow. So according to state law, concealed carry would be a felony on a metro bus, but open carry would be legal?

    How can we expect someone who doesn't have a car to not be able to ride the bus to a gun show, or to H&H, or even to work where they want to be legally armed?
    Last edited by okiebryan; 11-13-2012 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    I never saw this before. Wow. So according to state law, concealed carry would be a felony on a metro bus, but open carry would be illegal?

    How can we expect someone who doesn't have a car to not be able to ride the bus to a gun show, or to H&H, or even to work where they want to be legally armed?
    This is the "loophole" that OKC wants to get changed.

    This section of law was established in 1980, and has been amended a couple of times in the late 90's. Can't see the previous revisions to see what the original said.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    I never saw this before. Wow. So according to state law, concealed carry would be a felony on a metro bus, but open carry would be illegal?

    How can we expect someone who doesn't have a car to not be able to ride the bus to a gun show, or to H&H, or even to work where they want to be legally armed?
    As I see that law, it is illegal to conceal on a bus...says nothing about OC, so OC would be legal. Don't understand why that law exists anyway...it should not be illegal to carry into any public venue except specific secure facilities, like the secure part of a jail, MH facility, court room...that kind of stuff....as a matter of fact, those three SHOULD be it.We can carry (OC or CC with a CPL) into a town/county council meeting, the state legislature....etc, and it has never been a problem. Maybe the thing to do is get rid of that provision completely so CC or OC is legal on the bus...that would fix Oklahoma City right wouldn't it????

    We used to have a rifle and pistol team at our high school...still can't figure why those are off limits now, federal num nuts law, or not.
    Last edited by hermannr; 11-13-2012 at 05:48 PM.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post

    As I see that law, it is illegal to conceal on a bus...says nothing about OC, so OC would be legal. Don't understand why that law exists anyway...it should not be illegal to carry into any public venue except specific secure facilities, like the secure part of a jail, MH facility, court room...that kind of stuff....as a matter of fact, those three SHOULD be it.We can carry (OC or CC with a CPL) into a town/county council meeting, the state legislature....etc, and it has never been a problem. Maybe the thing to do is get rid of that provision completely so CC or OC is legal on the bus...that would fix Oklahoma City right wouldn't it????

    We used to have a rifle and pistol team at our high school...still can't figure why those are off limits now, federal num nuts law, or not.
    Unfortunately, the legislature we had back in 1995 when the Oklahoma Self Defense Act was passed into law didn't agree with you.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    I never knew that it was a freaking FELONY to carry on a bus. I'm with you, Wes...why don't the instructors tell people this?

    Wouldn't it be funny if OKC lobbied the legislature to change the law, but then instead the legislature added an exception to the prohibition on carrying on a bus for licensees? I honestly can see this happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    I never knew that it was a freaking FELONY to carry on a bus. I'm with you, Wes...why don't the instructors tell people this?

    Wouldn't it be funny if OKC lobbied the legislature to change the law, but then instead the legislature added an exception to the prohibition on carrying on a bus for licensees? I honestly can see this happening.
    That's what I was thinking. I've thought about taking the bus a few times, but after reading the no firearms rule, I changed my mind. Now I know why the rule was in place to begin with.

    I think the instructors don't teach this because it isn't in the SDA. I sent a note to my contact a CLEET asking him if this could be put into the SDA for instructors to teach.

    Just checked my email and got a response from him. He thinks it's a good idea and will look into it when he gets back into the office.
    Last edited by hrdware; 11-13-2012 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Added Info
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    So the City of Oklahoma City wants the legislature to change some things because they can't prevent people from openly carrying firearms on the city buses. I thought it was because they were probably charging concealed carriers with disturbing the peace or something similar, which can't be done for simply open carrying.

    However, I was browsing statutes for something else the other day and came across this little gem.



    It sure would be good if someone included this in the SDA class.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    That's what I was thinking. I've thought about taking the bus a few times, but after reading the no firearms rule, I changed my mind. Now I know why the rule was in place to begin with.

    I think the instructors don't teach this because it isn't in the SDA. I sent a note to my contact a CLEET asking him if this could be put into the SDA for instructors to teach.

    Just checked my email and got a response from him. He thinks it's a good idea and will look into it when he gets back into the office.
    What did I miss, where is the no firearms rule? I saw the no concealed part but where is the general firearms part.

    Man some laws just really seem to afford making it easier to be a criminal so long as you don't get caught than for LAC's to be able to protect themselves. I used to wonder why crime was so rampant and increasing and after studying the laws this past year I see why.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    What did I miss, where is the no firearms rule? I saw the no concealed part but where is the general firearms part.

    Man some laws just really seem to afford making it easier to be a criminal so long as you don't get caught than for LAC's to be able to protect themselves. I used to wonder why crime was so rampant and increasing and after studying the laws this past year I see why.
    The law (that I can find) specifically says concealed. However on the Metro Transit website, it specifically says no firearms in or on any Metro Transit Vehicle or Property.

    So even before Nov 1, it seems the rule was in conflict with the law. What if I wanted to take the bus to the gun range to go shoot...the rule would not have let me, however the rule might have been in violation of the law since Metro Transit is a public transportation not a private contract with the city.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Oh ok, wow. So many conflicts or contradictions in some of our laws is almost amazing that everyone is not a felon or ciminal to some degree. I am at a loss for words, how can we ( and I say that loosely) inact laws that are so flawed then expect to be able to enforce them, this baffles me. It's like saying oh just put something down so we can move on (go play golf or something else) and we'll get to later or let case laws decide for us. Not sure I'll ever understand that.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Here in WA we have no government mandated "training" requirement....however, the Sheriff is required to give us (free) a small booklet that was produced by F&W that has ALL the firearms related laws when we aply for our CPL, or when we renew our CPL...not just RCW 9.41 (our equivilent of your SDA). It has the little "outdoor music festival" gotya, and the F&W loaded long gun in a vehicle restriction in it too. This booklet is also available online, and is required to be updated when the law changes.

    Preemption is also there to make sure that what is legal in Tonasket (pop about 1000) is also legal in Seattle.

    The purpose of this booklet was to make sure that a person did not inadvertently do something illegal.

    We are told when we apply that it is our responsibility to know the law...and this booklet is a very good way to make sure you do. Maybe OK might think of doing something similar?

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    ....however, the Sheriff is required to give us (free) a small booklet that was produced by F&W that has ALL the firearms related laws when we aply for our CPL, or when we renew our CPL...?
    I am in WA and have not heard of this. All they gave me was a smile as I left the building. Washington Open Carry has a brochure on the States page as a sticky, is that what you referred to?
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 11-14-2012 at 03:18 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I am in WA and have not heard of this. All they gave me was a smile as I left the building. Washington Open Carry has a brochure on the States page as a sticky, is that what you referred to?
    Well, maybe we should start wit RCW 9.41.070(9)(a) where $3.00 of your fee is allocated to F&W for the "pamphlet" and at the end of that paragraph it states: ""....the pamphlet shall be given to each applicant;..."

    If you want to see what you were suppoosed to receive when you applied, the online .pdf is here: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00511/wdfw00511.pdf

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