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Thread: liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Mosnar87's Avatar
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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    I could use a little help in the OC walmart thread over in OC questions.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=104968
    OC Walmart

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    What a d*ck. won't even admit he is wrong once provided with cites. Closes the thread before it can be hashed out.


    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    If he presented his argument as was done in this thread, ZERO.

    However, you are now saying something different. If I understand the bolded part, you are saying that ALL OC in MI requires a license or permit.


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    Pretty much. See MCL 28.422.

    Exceptions are there, one of them is having a CPL or equivalent from your own state.

    MCL 750.234d says you can only OC in an establishment licensed by the liquor control act (which is any place that sells beer or liquor or is merely licensed to do so). One exemption to 234d is having a CPL. A simple purchase permit given via MCL 28.422 won't cut it.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    No worries. Gotta love out of state ppl that think they know the state law better than in-state OC veterans....
    I never said that I knew MI law. I was reading the responses to another's query and finding the responses as lacking and frustrating as the inquirer. The answers may be valid. I don't know. They were just annoyingly poorly presented.


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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    Proper cite for for Liquor control act is MCL 436.1801.

    Michigan laws are a mess. Welcome to MI
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    ...Pretty much. See MCL 28.422.

    Exceptions are there, one of them is having a CPL or equivalent from your own state.

    MCL 750.234d says you can only OC in an establishment licensed by the liquor control act (which is any place that sells beer or liquor or is merely licensed to do so). One exemption to 234d is having a CPL. A simple purchase permit given via MCL 28.422 won't cut it.
    So if a license is needed to OC in general, stores selling liquor present no additional difficulty to OC than any other establishment would. Correct?


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    What a d*ck. won't even admit he is wrong once provided with cites. Closes the thread before it can be hashed out.




    Pretty much. See MCL 28.422.

    Exceptions are there, one of them is having a CPL or equivalent from your own state.

    MCL 750.234d says you can only OC in an establishment licensed by the liquor control act (which is any place that sells beer or liquor or is merely licensed to do so). One exemption to 234d is having a CPL. A simple purchase permit given via MCL 28.422 won't cut it.
    Personal attack doesn't behoove you Q - I have no problem saying I was wrong.

    Your connection and explaination throws a much brighter a direct light on the matter - I thank you for that.
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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?m...-1933-Ex-Sess-

    This references in the compiler notes:

    Compiler's Notes: Former sections 22 to 22h, being MCL 436.22 to 436.22h, were known and cited as the “Dram Shop Act.” See now MCL 436.1801 to 436.1815.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Personal attack doesn't behoove you Q - I have no problem saying I was wrong.

    Your connection and explaination throws a much brighter a direct light on the matter - I thank you for that.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1851761

    Oh pot, how black you are.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Red face Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner for understatement of the year!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Proper cite for for Liquor control act is MCL 436.1801.

    Michigan laws are a mess. Welcome to MI


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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    @Grapeshot

    Can you go back and add a post to the thread to reference this one to clear up the matter for posterity?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    @Grapeshot

    Can you go back and add a post to the thread to reference this one to clear up the matter for posterity?
    Done with a link to this thread.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...20#post1851820
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-13-2012 at 04:41 PM. Reason: fixed link
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So if a license is needed to OC in general, stores selling liquor present no additional difficulty to OC than any other establishment would. Correct?


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    Maybe you missed the above.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So if a license is needed to OC in general, stores selling liquor present no additional difficulty to OC than any other establishment would. Correct?


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    A license is needed to OC a handgun in Michigan but not necessarily a concealed pistol license. Any person who legally owns a handgun in Michigan (that doesn't have a CPL) must first obtain a "permit to purchase" or as it is detailed by law a "license to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol". This does not allow someone to carry a concealed pistol so they do not meet the exemption under 750.234d. which requires a license to carry concealed.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    An observation... Don't assume a low post count individual does not know what he is talking about. The individual some were disputing is my brother and is at least as well versed in MI law pertaining to firearm carry as I am.

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    Last edited by autosurgeon; 11-14-2012 at 03:52 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    An observation... Don't assume a low post count individual does not know what he is talking about. The individual some were disputing is my brother and is at least as well versed in MI law pertaining to firearm carry as I am.

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    It is the ability to translate the information in a manner condusive to others understanding it, not the post count, that matters. Jus' sayin'.

    I see that the convolutions of MI law makes that difficult though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    eye95:

    Like Alabama..., Michigan is an Open Carry State.

    However, Michigan Code 750.234d(1) Spells Out Certain Places where Firearms are NOT Allowed, and The Exceptions Contained therein.

    Michigan Code 750.234d is Viewable here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(d3q...e=mcl-750-234d

    aadvark

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    liquor license and no OC without a cpl or other exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is the ability to translate the information in a manner condusive to others understanding it, not the post count, that matters. Jus' sayin'.

    I see that the convolutions of MI law makes that difficult though.
    Well part of the problem is he does not have a computer at the moment and does most of his posting from a phone. Makes posting links and such much harder. And yes MI law is a mess.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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