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Thread: WA State Petition to secede from the Union

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    WA State Petition to secede from the Union

    Sign if interested in sending strong message:

    http://wh.gov/Xia7

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjschul View Post
    Sign if interested in sending strong message:

    http://wh.gov/Xia7
    Sending a message, maybe.

    People, I've been telling people about this all day. ..

    '
    This whole whitehouse.gov/petition thing isn't what seems. This isn't a process, it's a 'poll' IF it gets enough 'votes' (25,000) the Whitehouse will make a 'statement'.

    It doesn't mean anything. It's not a state-supported to secede.

    Sorry, but this is just BS.

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjschul View Post
    Sign if interested in sending strong message:

    http://wh.gov/Xia7

    This kind of crap tends to make me really angry. My family has a long and proud military tradition. I, my brothers and sister, my cousins, uncles and our ancestors have served our country proudly, as have many, many others... and you want to run like a rabbit because you don't like the way the election turned out?

    Last edited by Bookman; 11-14-2012 at 04:51 AM.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


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    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
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    Why start more than one of these petitions, next time see if one is already started...

    At least this one has 138 sigs to that other's one.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/6V6VG9Q0

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    W t f

    I served our country for 22 years fighting for what Americans beleive in. Why would I give up everything I have fought for just because some assh*^e gets reelected. If any state seceded from the united states all federal money would stop and state taxes would go up to cover it. If you don't like this country change it or get the frick out. Just my humble opinion.
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

    DEMAND IT
    Congress SHALL NOT receive A salary greater than any service member and will be given EQUIVELANT insurance as any service member

    I came into this world kicking and screaming covered in someone else's blood. And if necessary to protect the Constitution of The United States of AMERICA. I will go out the same way

    All hail the Domain of Neptunus Rex

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    People who sign the petition of secession should be charged with treason.

    I signed this petition instead:
    Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.
    http://wh.gov/9FAY
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    People who sign the petition of secession should be charged with treason.

    I signed this petition instead:
    Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.
    http://wh.gov/9FAY
    Really? then people who read the declaration of independance or the US constitution should be tried for treason as well? expecially if they expect the US government to abide by "gasp" the constitution?

    Since the above said document specifically allows states to suceed.


    "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
    you cannot have one without the other. the declaration and the constitution are 2 parts of the whole-

    The down side of course is that as a settled issue (that whole civila war thing we did back in the 1860s) you cannot have sucession without another civil war, no matter how peaceful the states may wish it. so signing your name and personal info to a petition that goes directly to the executive branch of government that is currently in the control of a marxist inspired president whose job includes taking action to prevent sucession is a pretty stupid thing to do.


    http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/11/13/...ns-showing-it/
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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    Really?
    Yes, really. Those who are wanting to states to secede are no better than the terrorists We as a People fight overseas, they're domestic terrorists trying to cause severe disruption in our political system, fueling militant groups who plan attacks on our electorates and are hell bent on depriving others of rights which don't coincide with their religious beliefs.

    Charge them with treason and/or deport them.
    Last edited by david.ross; 11-14-2012 at 06:45 AM. Reason: spelling error :3
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Schlepnier and david.ross - I think the word you're looking for is "secede> I believe we all want the states to succeed.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Schlepnier and david.ross - I think the word you're looking for is "secede> I believe we all want the states to succeed.
    hah, fixed
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Schlepnier and david.ross - I think the word you're looking for is "secede> I believe we all want the states to succeed.
    Touche
    at least you know what we meant....

    sorry dave it isn't treason,

    Section 3 defines treason and its punishment.


    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
    this is clarified as well inthe federalist papers-


    In Federalist No. 43 James Madison wrote regarding the Treason Clause:


    As treason may be committed against the United States, the authority of the United States ought to be enabled to punish it. But as new-fangled and artificial treasons have been the great engines by which violent factions, the natural offspring of free government, have usually wreaked their alternate malignity on each other, the convention have, with great judgment, opposed a barrier to this peculiar danger, by inserting a constitutional definition of the crime, fixing the proof necessary for conviction of it, and restraining the Congress, even in punishing it, from extending the consequences of guilt beyond the person of its author.
    the demand to have the ability to secede is patriotism, it is based on the very founding priciples of our nation. quoted dirctly from the founding documents. it's also completely stupid to petiton the whitehouse on the matter and un-attainable in a peaceful manner because the civil war settled the issue IE-you may want to leave the union but your only going to be able to do so by force.

    I do not want to see a second civil war and i pray we never do, relegating our internal battles to the realm of the "battlefield of ideas"

    It took the colonists facing threat of being forcibly disarmed at concord to start the revolutonary war that created america, lets hope we never get to that point again.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

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    Can't we start small? I would rather split the state at the top of the Cascades!

    bob

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    I do not want to see a second civil war and i pray we never do, relegating our internal battles to the realm of the "battlefield of ideas"

    It took the colonists facing threat of being forcibly disarmed at concord to start the revolutonary war that created america, lets hope we never get to that point again.
    If a war starts, I'll join the PA state military and go to arms against the domestic terrorists who want to secede because they didn't want to get their way. I'm all for mowing down anyone wanting to commit terroristic acts just as we mowed down al-qaeda and the taliban.
    Last edited by david.ross; 11-14-2012 at 08:06 AM.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  14. #14
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Official OCDO Statement on The Secession Petitions

    I have received several reports of this post asking me to remove it as off-topic. After thinking about it, I am going to leave it since it IS about the Washington petition.

    I know that a lot of people see these petitions as a vehicle for sending a message of dissatisfaction after the election.

    However, I think it is important to publicly state that OCDO is NOT in support of seeing the nation torn apart.

    Our vision is of an America where our Constitutional protections are fully realized for all people in all states. The ONLY way to do that is to keep America strong.

    The best way to fight to system is to BECOME the system.

    We do this by electing pro-liberty candidates at the local, state, and federal level.

    We do this by making sure the next generation is educated about gun rights and other pro-liberty issues.

    We do this by challenging violations of rights in the courts.

    We do this by inviting people to go shooting.

    We don't do this by taking our ball and going home.


    John

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    If a war starts, I'll join the PA state military and go to arms against the domestic terrorists who want to secede because they didn't want to get their way. I'm all for mowing down anyone wanting to commit terroristic acts just as we mowed down al-qaeda and the taliban.
    Would you do so? if the state military or government became tyranical/socialist/marxist/communist/statist etc.. and decided to remove or abandon the founding principles of the constitution? would it even be your country anymore? the second ammendmant exhists for the very reason that the people can rise up and if neccisary overthrow a government that has gone to far as a matter of last resort. you might well find yourself fighting on the wrong side of the matter if you do not think calmly and logically. it would be no different than a soldier obeying an unlawful order.

    What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy?
    -sure its from star wars but the premise is applicable.

    Fortunately we are not there yet, however the country is basically divided 50/50 in such a manner that we have not seen since the 1860s although this time states rights are less the issue as to the role, duty and restrictions the constitution places on the federal government and how they have or have not exceeded it.


    Also you might want to not confuse terrorism which has a very specific definition and those who wish to secede even at the expense of an armed rebellion. the 2 are very different things.
    Last edited by Schlepnier; 11-14-2012 at 09:12 AM.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

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    Re: WA State Petition to secede from the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    the people can rise up and if neccisary overthrow a government that has gone to far as a matter of last resort.
    This is exactly why people are signing the petition. The gvt missused its power for way too long and it seems they just went too far and people are fed up. That the way they found to tell the gvt that enough is enough.
    I believe the people who signed the petition do love their country just not the way it has been run for decades



    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

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    What John said^^^^^^

    And sometimes it just feels good to feel like you did something when you sign one of these petition.

    Stop feeling helpless and get out there and do something, work for a candidate next election, participate in your parties monthly meetings, run for an office, get involved someway some how. If you just cast a vote that is better than nothing but one of the reasons obama got reelected was the feet on the ground he had us beat there. OH and OC when you are doing it, when legal to of course.

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Pierce View Post
    I have received several reports of this post asking me to remove it as off-topic. After thinking about it, I am going to leave it since it IS about the Washington petition.

    I know that a lot of people see these petitions as a vehicle for sending a message of dissatisfaction after the election.

    However, I think it is important to publicly state that OCDO is NOT in support of seeing the nation torn apart.

    Our vision is of an America where our Constitutional protections are fully realized for all people in all states. The ONLY way to do that is to keep America strong.

    The best way to fight to system is to BECOME the system.

    We do this by electing pro-liberty candidates at the local, state, and federal level.

    We do this by making sure the next generation is educated about gun rights and other pro-liberty issues.

    We do this by challenging violations of rights in the courts.

    We do this by inviting people to go shooting.

    We don't do this by taking our ball and going home.


    John

    +1 - Well said, John.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjschul View Post
    Sign if interested in sending strong message:

    http://wh.gov/Xia7
    Better yet, why do we demand proof that Washington was ever properly admitted to the Union.

    Why does the constitution (1889), that we are running under, not appear in the congressional record?
    The REAL constitution (1878) for the State of Washington is found in the congressional record.

    If you want to "secede" then that means were were part of the Union in the first place. Why not bring up that we were NEVER part of the union and go ahead and work that angle? I think you'd have a batter change with that once you've done some historical research on that subject.

    http://www.freedomforallseasons.org/...atNeverWas.asp
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    For a state to secede the state government must do it not an individual petition to the Feds.

    I would be on board our state threatening to secede if they were doing so for the right reasons and for more liberty. Of course I think this was made more difficult to do since senators are now not representatives of the state as originally intended.

    I am also a fan of nullification by the state and by the people in the state.

    Treason! Give me a break! Only those who put nationalism over individual rights would feel this way.

    I respect soldiers and warriors, there's a difference though in fighting for you country and fighting for freedom and liberty, I blame the state propaganda and war mongering politicians for the misdirection not the soldiers mostly who are very young men when they are admitted into the services.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Re: WA State Petition to secede from the Union

    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    they're domestic terrorists trying to cause severe disruption in our political system...

    and are hell bent on depriving others of rights which don't coincide with their religious beliefs.

    Charge them with treason and/or deport them.
    = The current POTUS
    Last edited by Cremator75; 11-14-2012 at 10:53 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    For a state to secede the state government must do it not an individual petition to the Feds.

    I would be on board our state threatening to secede if they were doing so for the right reasons and for more liberty. Of course I think this was made more difficult to do since senators are now not representatives of the state as originally intended.

    I am also a fan of nullification by the state and by the people in the state.

    Treason! Give me a break! Only those who put nationalism over individual rights would feel this way.

    I respect soldiers and warriors, there's a difference though in fighting for you country and fighting for freedom and liberty, I blame the state propaganda and war mongering politicians for the misdirection not the soldiers mostly who are very young men when they are admitted into the services.
    +1
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    If you want secession, prepare for war. Because, that is what you`ll get. There is no other conclusion. There are other ways without the need to fight.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Yes, really. Those who are wanting to states to secede are no better than the terrorists We as a People fight overseas, they're domestic terrorists trying to cause severe disruption in our political system, fueling militant groups who plan attacks on our electorates and are hell bent on depriving others of rights which don't coincide with their religious beliefs.

    Charge them with treason and/or deport them.
    Paranoid much? Or perhaps just ignorant?

    These people have the Right to Speak Freely and to Petetion their Government for Redress of Grievances. That's ensconced in the First Amendment. Ever read it? They are not traitors. They are not terrorists. They are innocent of the charges you lay at their feet. There are a Few of them who actually understand the correct view of their relationship to .gov. Then there are the angry mob types who just want it over. Too bad for you, they're all protected by the First Amendment.

    The Second Amendment you partially embrace is clearly very important to you or you wouldn't be here on OCDO. But let me suggest that you are missing the first half of it. You know, the part that talks about militias being important to the security of a Free State? Ever think, er, wonder why those horrible, intolerant, white slavers included that bit in there? Probably not. Two key words to think on: Free State...

    If Washington State, through her elected government, decides to walk, she would be completely within her Rights as a Free State to do so regardless of the opinions of the SCOTUS and the painful results of the unCivil War. Amendments Nine and Ten are all any honest State would need to legally extract themselves from this co-called union in addition to needing some real men in the State to back up their choice. Of course war would be declared against her, her land would be laid waste and her people killed for having the gumption of saying "No!" to .gov in such a clear manner. That's what a loving "mother" country does...

    These States were meant to be and still should be Nations unto themselves. You and I have been raised in a fraudulent education system which teaches many lies to children. Such as America is a democracy, we are one nation under God indivisible, you have rights, your vote counts, the SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is "constitutional", etc.. Clearly, you still embrace the System's view. I have rejected what I was indoctrinated with and have sought out the words of the Framers and those who influenced their ways as a lamp to guide my feet.

    The Agent of the States (look it up) was designed to exercise power at the States behest, not of it's own choice and definitely not on the States or the People THAT CREATED IT. It was not designed to have "Free Will". When it leaves it's clearly enumerated responsibilities behind and seeks more and more power over those IT WAS CREATED TO SERVE, it is the Right and Duty of the People to replace it with something that provides better guards for their Freedom. Don't like that phrasing? Take it up with Jefferson and the signers of the Declaration.

    It's this demented machine, .gov, that is seeking "...to cause severe disruption in our political system, fueling militant groups who plan attacks on our electorates and are hell bent on depriving others of rights which don't coincide with their religious beliefs." Statism is a religion. And people like you are her prophets.


    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    If a war starts, I'll join the PA state military and go to arms against the domestic terrorists who want to secede because they didn't want to get their way. I'm all for mowing down anyone wanting to commit terroristic acts just as we mowed down al-qaeda and the taliban.
    What to say in the face of your mindless intolerance? You talk like a Stormtrooper. I.e. One carrying the Death's Head. They used the language of the Reich (domestic terrorists, militant groups) unknowingly. They brooked no reluctance to embrace the all powerful national state. They killed their neighbors without a thought to their own involvement. And they obeyed without thinking...

    Those men on the Lexington Commons didn't place themselves in danger and die so you could cheer for the massacre of humans in distant foreign nations. The men, and they are real men, misguided though they may be, in the Taliban at least have the spine to stand against an illegal regime when it invaded their land and immediately started uprooting their way of life. We sit and do nothing while it is OUR OWN NATION overrun by those intended to serve us and OUR WAY OF LIFE attacked. The men in Lexington fought so their children might be Free to live as they saw fit. So, today, do the "terrorists" in Afghanistan struggle for the Freedom to live AS THEY SEE FIT.

    So, you can keep your .govspeak and your mindless ignorance of the Rights of ALL AMERICANS to speak and be heard. You can embrace the media-driven life you have chosen for yourself and live it however you wish. But, please be aware, when you (collectively) come for me, I am not alone and I stand for True Freedom and the intentions of our forefathers. I will die before I surrender another inch to you and your ilk. My children will live Free.
    Last edited by Freedom First; 11-14-2012 at 12:19 PM.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

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  25. #25
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Like many Americans, I am very displeased with the direction this country is going. I didn't like that Obama was reelected, but what I like even less is the deep partisan divide that has split DC down the middle. Their mind numbing self-interest and only walking the party line is putting this country severely at risk - as has the unwillingness to compromise as a country, not just Congress.

    I don't see how "sending a message" in this matter is a bad thing, though I think it does send the WRONG message. It shows an extreme viewpoint and a continued desire to do what partially got us into this mess in the first place! (Not compromising). Both parties need to get off of their high horses - the Democrats need to stop the "we won, do it our way mentality" and Republicans need to stop being so afraid of Obama's agenda that they refuse to hear anything the Dems suggest.

    What I do see coming is the states starting to show more initiative in resolving their fiscal problems locally and perhaps even regionally. Washington took a step in that direction with passing the marijuana initiative this year. If DC cannot get it done - I would support action on the part of the states to solve their problems even if the proposed solution comes into conflict with Federal law. I would hope that such action would encourage other states to follow suit and even push for a change at the Federal level. We can still use states rights and our federated nature as a country to our advantage without crying for secession.

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