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Thread: (time-sensitive) I'm a utility worker heading to NY for the relief effort...

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    Exclamation (time-sensitive) I'm a utility worker heading to NY for the relief effort...

    I'll be heading up tomorrow night (short notice, I know) to help get people back up and running, and although I have personal, past experiences with post-storm work in other places that dictate I should protect myself, you guys deserve a link to a recent, relevant example: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...e-power/nS5L7/

    Here's the deal. At least AT FIRST, I'll be staying in NJ, and working somewhere in Long Island. I called the state police to ask what is and isn't legal, something I've already been informed is a bad idea, and have done some research on my own through this and other sites, as well as reading what I can understand of the local code myself. From what I can tell, Federal law permits that I can transport, within a locked container separate from the passenger compartment (if possible given the type of vehicle) and separate from the ammo, provided I'm also legal at both origin and destination. This doesn't mean that I can't be arrested for it by a local LEO, and also doesn't mean said LEO would be within their job description and local law to do so. I understand it is almost certain any charges following an arrest would be thrown out in court, providing I don't "go ackin all cray-cray." I would like to stay withing the confines of all applicable laws. Having a court case tossed doesn't help the fact that I would have to be imprisoned first, and that's not really a win in my book. There are still loads of questions for you guys, and please feel free to correct me on the above.

    I will be driving a pickup with a lockable toolbox in the bed. Both the back of the access cab (pocket doors, have to open front door first) and the bed box will be loaded about halfway (by volume) with tools and equipment. My passenger and I, when on a job site, will be in and out of the bed box much more often than the back of the cab, which concerns me about placing either the weapon or the ammo in it, for fear of human error leaving the box unlocked for someone to grab both my property and my means to protect it. I think my best course of action is to keep the pistol in a locked box somewhere in the back of the cab not immediately accessible to me or my passenger while driving. The locked box happens to be a cash box, the likes of which you would find by the cashier at a flea market booth. It locks with a key, which I am hearing would be inferior to a combo lock due to concerns of consent to open the box, but it's what I have immediately available to me. I may go buy a combo-lock box instead. The ammo I would keep somewhere else, such as the bolted-in bed box, or also in a similar place as I described for the gun itself, but on the other side or something like that. I would consider the bed box weather-resistant. It's brand new and I only put holes in the bottom to bolt it down, but some wind could totally blow moisture inside of it through the lip between box and lid. It definitely holds up fine in a downpour while sitting still.

    What should I do on both fronts? The biggest issues here seem to be number one, the fact I'll be driving daily through NYC, the configuration given the circumstances, and what to and not to do should an encounter with a criminal directly threatening my life and/or property occur. I already feel up to snuff when it comes to an actual traffic stop and respectfully flexing my rights regarding searches.

    I'm taking any and all suggestions and advice. I have this post set to notify immediately via email to my phone upon replies in order to quickly answer any questions you may have. Thanks in advance!

    EDIT: I originally posted details throughout this thread that, while possibly vital to receive the help I needed (and received!), are not necessary to help another in a similar situation, and would potentially harm an ongoing, unrelated legal dispute. I've edited them out, but have left my notifications for replies to this thread on for anyone with questions for me, or further questions for the group on the matter. I promise I'm usually much more open, and less secretive about my life's adventures. Sorry about the circumstances.
    Last edited by tatertom; 11-14-2012 at 03:47 AM.

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    Mind the NJ law against hollow-points.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I believe that you are covered passing through one state to another. Not so much when you are going to be in the states working.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Mind the NJ law against hollow-points.
    Since you mentioned it, I assume they are illegal, probably in any possible instance. Of course, I will now go and research it as well, but I don't think I even possess any ammo of that type, and don't think it's necessary.
    Last edited by tatertom; 11-14-2012 at 03:37 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    If you are going to do this I suggest you take an inexpensive working firearm, because you may not be returning home with it.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If you are going to do this I suggest you take an inexpensive working firearm, because you may not be returning home with it.
    Due to confiscation, theft, or for what reason?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertom View Post
    Due to confiscation, theft, or for what reason?
    Well IF you have a permit in your current state, I do not know if NY will recognize it. If you don't and get caught not only will you be arrested you WILL lose your guns. NYS has no sense of humor on this, neither does NJ, there are court cases where people held over in airports were arrested, when they normally would be traveling through. The federal law only covers you when you are going from point A to point B. Once you stop to stay, you have no federal protection. I suggest some heavy or sharp edged tools that you will need to do your job.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I believe that you are covered passing through one state to another. Not so much when you are going to be in the states working.
    Is there something I can do to help the latter? I want to abide, but I had to sell a lot of the belongings I would otherwise leave behind in order to fund this trip. Most of what I own is going to be in the truck with me. That should bring the true weight of the matter into light.

    Also, I do NOT have a permit anywhere, but that is perfectly legal where I live. I understand it's near impossible for a resident to get a permit up there, let alone an out-of-stater. I have only one arrest ever, the charge was disturbing the peace, about 3 years ago. I possibly stupidly accepted a plea bargain in order to return home, as the arrest took place the night of my return. Does that make any difference in a potential situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Well IF you have a permit in your current state, I do not know if NY will recognize it. If you don't and get caught not only will you be arrested you WILL lose your guns. NYS has no sense of humor on this, neither does NJ, there are court cases where people held over in airports were arrested, when they normally would be traveling through. The federal law only covers you when you are going from point A to point B. Once you stop to stay, you have no federal protection. I suggest some heavy or sharp edged tools that you will need to do your job.
    From what I read, NY does not recognize an out of state permit, but one helps, at least on the surface, to obtain a permit within NY. I don't have one.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertom View Post
    Is there something I can do to help the latter? I want to abide, but I had to sell a lot of the belongings I would otherwise leave behind in order to fund this trip. Most of what I own is going to be in the truck with me. That should bring the true weight of the matter into light.

    Also, I do NOT have a permit anywhere, but that is perfectly legal where I live. I understand it's near impossible for a resident to get a permit up there, let alone an out-of-stater. I have only one arrest ever, the charge was disturbing the peace, about 3 years ago. I possibly stupidly accepted a plea bargain in order to return home, as the arrest took place the night of my return. Does that make any difference in a potential situation?
    Probably. Hopefully a New Yorker will come to let you know their laws, the only thing I can tell you is the federal statute for transporting will not cover you. And if you have to keep the guns locked up they will not do you any good anyway.

    Sorry, I personally do not think any state should be able to take away your freedom to defend yourself.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I suggest some heavy or sharp edged tools that you will need to do your job.
    Now THAT I have. And I will have a partner within earshot, if not line-of-sight, at all times. What about knives? I have them all the way from fingernail, to my normal carry, which is a gerber with the point sanded down to a screwdriver after snapping it off once, to finger-flip (no spring assist) to full spring-assist, and more of a tool but still a blade is my wal-mart camping machete, which I had thoughts of keeping in arm's reach within the cab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertom View Post
    Now THAT I have. And I will have a partner within earshot, if not line-of-sight, at all times. What about knives? I have them all the way from fingernail, to my normal carry, which is a gerber with the point sanded down to a screwdriver after snapping it off once, to finger-flip (no spring assist) to full spring-assist, and more of a tool but still a blade is my wal-mart camping machete, which I had thoughts of keeping in arm's reach within the cab.
    Are not knives part of your tools? Hopefully some Yorker will be along soon to give you the sharp points of NYS and NYC knife laws.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    And if you have to keep the guns locked up they will not do you any good anyway.
    Reading that, I guess one of the few actual uses besides the hotel for a gun would be a situation where I or my partner were held up or accosted away from the truck, with the other free to combine and defend the first. Pretty niche, I guess.

    Your opinion on the state of our nation's laws is the exact reason I registered on this website tonight, and I thank you for having it, and me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Are not knives part of your tools? Hopefully some Yorker will be along soon to give you the sharp points of NYS and NYC knife laws.
    A retractable stanley is a required part of the toolset, but not much use in a defensive situation, especially vs. a perp with a pistol. If it weren't for the (albeit pretty worn out) spring-assist on the screwdriver'd knife, I'd take and carry it without question. I'm definitely interested to hear someone to pipe up about the machete-in-the-cab situation, though.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertom View Post
    A retractable stanley is a required part of the toolset, but not much use in a defensive situation, especially vs. a perp with a pistol. If it weren't for the (albeit pretty worn out) spring-assist on the screwdriver'd knife, I'd take and carry it without question. I'm definitely interested to hear someone to pipe up about the machete-in-the-cab situation, though.
    My son is a lineman, he has all kinds of tools that can be used as weapons, and yes they have axes, hatchets, hammers, and machetes in the trucks along with the other tools. Usually when they go to disaster areas they have chainsaws too.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    My son is a lineman, he has all kinds of tools that can be used as weapons, and yes they have axes, hatchets, hammers, and machetes in the trucks along with the other tools. Usually when they go to disaster areas they have chainsaws too.
    Heh. Just got a vision of my latino partner wielding a chainsaw as a defense weapon. Thank you for that, it added some lightheartedness to a serious subject.

    I actually do have everything you listed there. The thing is, I think in order to feel safe replacing a gun with said tools in terms of defense, it would be more proper for the tool of choice to be in the cab with me, instead of in a bin in the back somewhere, which I would guess to the case to be for your son. Everything I can think of packed into the cab is more bulky or more expensive or sensitive stuff (like electronics), so a machete chilling there wedged between the seats would look pretty out of place to an officer, I think.

    Also, it should be noted from my experience with this type of work in these types of situations, that I expect to be checked out multiple times by LEOs due to having an out of state tag and a vehicle non-white in color. A trained eye would be pretty safe to assume just by sight that I'm not a union guy, and I've caught hell in the past, even in other industries, for traipsing around on union turf. You'd think us "scabs" would get a bye during times like these, but that's not the case.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    My son is union, but he doesn't have that attitude.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    My son is union, but he doesn't have that attitude.
    I'm thankful, and respectfully disagree with his decision. I realize MOST union guys DON'T carry the animosity towards us non-unioners, and that it's the few nut jobs in any group that shine the worst light on their peers.

    Thanks for all your help tonight. Even though you didn't have specifics for me, you and Citizen absolutely gave me what I was looking for.

    EDIT: I edited this post first to also thank Citizen, as I omitted it originally, and to point anyone reading to the original post of this thread concerning the rest of my post edits.
    Last edited by tatertom; 11-14-2012 at 03:41 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertom View Post
    I'm thankful, and respectfully disagree with his decision. I realize MOST union guys DON'T carry the animosity towards us non-unioners, and that it's the few nut jobs in any group that shine the worst light on their peers.

    Thanks for all your help tonight. Even though you didn't have specifics for me, you and Citizen absolutely gave me what I was looking for.

    EDIT: I edited this post first to also thank Citizen, as I omitted it originally, and to point anyone reading to the original post of this thread concerning the rest of my post edits.
    I hope everything works out. It is hard not to be Union as some states require union certification to handle power lines.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  20. #20
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    If you have questions about NY State, its gun laws and pistol permits go here.

    http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/

    http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/pistol-permits/


    If you have questions about NJ and its gun laws and requirements...go here

    http://njgunforums.com/forum/

    Forget about carrying any firearms for protection in NY City, NY State, or the State of NJ. I hate to see you (or anyone else) lose their freedoms for 1/2 a decade and then lose your gun rights forever because you wanted to protect yourself. Thank you for helping out with restoring power on the East Coast, just be careful.
    Last edited by Midwest; 11-15-2012 at 10:09 AM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  21. #21
    Regular Member FireStar M40's Avatar
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    Midwest said in part..

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    Forget about carrying any firearms for protection in NY City, NY State, or the State of NJ. I hate to see you (or anyone else) lose their freedoms for 1/2 a decade and then lose your gun rights forever because you wanted to protect yourself. Thank you for helping out with restoring power on the East Coast, just be careful.
    You're ab-so-posi-tutely 100% correct. NYS (and especially NYC who doesn't honor NYS LCP's) only recognize their own separate license issuance.

    As Midwest suggested.. stay the heck out of NYS and NYC. NJ? I can't answer that question seeing I'm not licensed in, or am up on, their state firearms rules and regulations.

    FireStar M40
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    Seeing they're too old and tired to fight,

    they'll just shoot your butt instead.

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    Neither New York nor New Jersey recognize any other state's license. Period.

    You get caught carrying, you're toast.

  23. #23
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    Just leave NYC and NJ in the dark ... don't go.

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    I wonder how tatertom did in the New York area.
    Last edited by Midwest; 12-05-2012 at 08:19 PM.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

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