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Thread: more issues in Middletown

  1. #1
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    more issues in Middletown

    applied back in february 2012, 6 weeks later received a denial letter for incorrect info on my app. that was my fault, I filled the app out to the best of my knowledge but some of it did end up being incorrect. honest mistake, I didn't argue it. spoke to a few people at middletown PD who said I could reapply once everything is squared away

    September 18th 2012: had my interview with Officer Bill Warner to reapply; submitted app, fingerprints taken, the norm. Bill Warner even went the extra mile helping me determine the exact correct info to include on my app this time around to ensure it goes through well. he definitely did not need to do that, and I highly appreciate that he did.

    November 7th: left a voicemail with a captain inquiring about my PP
    November 8th: left a voicemail with a different captain inquiring about my PP

    November 9th 2pm: I receive a call from female Detective Smith (I specify female because there is also a male det smith). she tells me she is finishing up the followup process of my application but can't get ahold of my manager, that it goes straight to voicemail and a name is not stated, simply that it states a different number to call instead. Det Smith did not specify if she tried calling the other phone number. I informed her that manager is very difficult to get ahold of, and gave her the name and phone number of another one of my managers who almost always answers. I spoke with that manager an hour later and she confirmed she spoke with Detective Smith.

    November 13th: I called Detective Smith to inquire on the progress of my application. she informed me my manager had great things to say about me, but a new issue has arisen: the fact that I have never met any of my managers face to face is causing some confusion on the PD's behalf, further delaying the approval of my app. I did not think to ask for the date they received my national background check at this time. Det Smith told me she didn't know what to do at that point, and would try passing it on to her captain to figure it out, and said she would call me back later that afternoon.

    a few hours later I thought about a manager I used to have who no longer works for my company though, but whom I have met in person many many times. contacted her to ask if I can give Middletown PD her contact info to inquire about me, she was all for it. I called Detective Smith back, she answered right away, I gave her the contact info for my previous manager and told her she no longer works for the company as of 8 months ago or so, but that we have met face to face many times. she took the info and said she would contact her, and that she will call me back later in the afternoon. again, I forgot to ask for the date of when they received my national background check. called my old manager back in the evening, she said she never got any calls.

    I never got a call back.

    November 14th: 11am called Det Smith, no answer, left voicemail. noon called det smith, no answer. 2pm called records department asking if they could provide me with the date my BG check was received, she was very polite but informed me she doesnt have access to that info if the app has not been approved or denied yet, that I would need to speek to det smith or officer bill warner. immediately called det smith again, again no answer. called the captain, left a voicemail inquiring on the progress of my app and asking for the date my BG check was received. called detective smith again at 3pm and 4pm, both times as expected, no answer, and never a return call from the original voicemail either, and never a return call from the captain. spoke with my old manager at 3pm who again said she never received any calls.

    there is no reason why I should not have received my permit by now. there is also no reason why they shouldnt at least give me the date they received my BG check. I did not ask each time I had the Det on the phone, but now that I have been calling noone is answering, and I'm mentioning the request for the date in my voicemails, and noone will call me back.

    without the date, I don't know exactly how long it's been of course. I definitely assume they've had my BG check for more than a week though. and as of today it has been 8 weeks and 1 day total elapsed time.

    does anyone have ties with Middletown PD that can get this ball shoved'a'rollin?

    any advice what I should do at this point?
    should I keep attempting to call Detective Smith again tomorrow? or do you know which Captain I should try to get ahold of? should I try contacting the chief of police directly?

    edit: I know I didn't have to, but when I applied back in february I did provide 3 reference letters, and they still had those on file for when I reapplied in september. also back in march or so I had a meeting with a detective about a funky complaint filed against me, and the detective told me he had spoken with the complainers BF who was actually the one I was interacting with the entire time of that issue and he stated repeatedly I was very calm and polite throughout it all, had nothing bad to say about me whatsoever, and the detective complimented me on how I handled that funky situation. he was aware I was waiting on my PP at that time, and this was all included in my PP stuff, and still is.
    so the question of reference shows nothing but positive things about me all over the place, and I'd think should be more than enough to determine suitability, as well as my two interviews with Officer Bill Warner going as well as they did.
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-14-2012 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    I assume "your manager" is an employer that you put on your application?

    I refused to put employer information on my application & my town never even got back to me and I filed a BFPE appeal. Their questionnaire also asked for employer information. I objected to the inquiry and the board ruled I did not have to provide this information.

    So, the information is irrelevant...the lack of contact with the employer should have no effect on your application.

    And you want a quicker permit process? And you provided letters of reference? Ya know they'll waste time chasing this down.

    And interviews? What, you applying for a job? I would have simply objected to the interviews.

    Now you need to file an appeal ... and with the questionnaire? Write "objection" on all queries and write a set of objections asking to strike each of the queries as being irrelevant and therefore not mandatory per Chapter 54 of CGS.

    Or you can still "play their game" and then you'll be upset when your permit is a great hassle. THEY have to prove you are not suitable ... more info = more ammo.

    And just what information was wrong on your initial permit application? I doubt it was anything relevant. I objected to most of the DPS form queries too (similar to the BFPE questionnaire objections that I won my motion to strike with the board).

    So far, the board has ruled basically correct to what the law is with certain insignificant exceptions. My hearing is later this month .. where the real test of their adherence to the law will be shown.

    Unless you're a felon, you're suitable, period. People should stop playing the "game" and start defending their rights.

    Also, do you own a handgun now? Its an important question.

  3. #3
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    no I do not own a handgun.

    as for the incorrect info on my original application, it has to do with my criminal record, but is not among any of the things listed in cgs 28-29 or 29-28 or whichever one states the disqualifiers. It was 2 misdemeanor charges. I realise that I could have appealed at that time if it were only based on this, but at that time I was also still in the middle of a court case which was also a disqualifier strictly because it was an open court case (for a MV ticket), which is why I needed to "get that all squared away before reapplying". because appeals need to be within 90 days, and I knew it would take more than 90 days to get it squared away. once it was squared away (dismissed completely) I then waited til I had the funds again and reapplied. and this is my current situation.

    I knew then and I know now I provided info and resources that were not necessary. at the time I did it because I thought it would help the situation and allow it to go quicker than needing to appeal. had I not provided that info, I almost definitely would have needed to appeal, and I know that process can be pretty darn long. So I chose the path I chose, knowing there is no reason why I should get denied. and even as it stands now, they still have no basis to deny, and have not issued a denial. they are just prolonging the approval, by how long I have no idea. could get a call tomorrow, might not get a call for weeks, I have no idea. which is why I'm here asking what I should do at this very moment and from here on out to provide a speedy process.
    I hate pestering people; it causes hassle to both myself and the PD, and often can make matters worse. but simply waiting without doing anything could also make it worse for me alone.
    so, what should I do?
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-14-2012 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Get your dates and appeal. Stop playing their ridiculous games.

    If you need help: info [at] ctcarry.com
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  5. #5
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    thats what I was trying to do all day today: get the date they received my national BG check. but records was unable to help me (she did attempt to help), and everyone else I contacted it just kept going to voicemail so I left voicemails and never got a call back

    I really dont want to have to appeal, but I definitely will appeal as soon as I get the date and find it to be more than 1 week..

    question though, if I appeal based on no response within 1 week from receiving BG check, what are the odds they (middletown PD) will issue the permit in the upcoming weeks? and how would I go about appealing if I can't get the date of them receiving the BG check?
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-14-2012 at 09:11 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    thats what I was trying to do all day today: get the date they received my national BG check. but records was unable to help me (she did attempt to help), and everyone else I contacted it just kept going to voicemail so I left voicemails and never got a call back
    Call 860-685-8480, ask for 'records', have money order information ready.

    I really dont want to have to appeal
    Why not?

    question though, if I appeal based on no response within 1 week from receiving BG check, what are the odds they (middletown PD) will issue the permit in the upcoming weeks? and how would I go about appealing if I can't get the date of them receiving the BG check?
    Most of the issuing authorities issue a permit instead of 'showing cause'. If they don't, they look stupid in a BFPE hearing. There are no promises though, and appealing is not a guarantee of issuance in any manner.

    You can appeal without the dates, but it certainly doesn't help anything to not know anything about your own case.
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    If you go and have a hearing, I would suggest the OP have a lawyer represent him. Really, I see a need.

  8. #8
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Most of the issuing authorities issue a permit instead of 'showing cause'. If they don't, they look stupid in a BFPE hearing.
    ok, that's what I was assuming, but saw it best to ask

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    There are no promises though, and appealing is not a guarantee of issuance in any manner.
    I definitely understand that

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Why not?
    I'm not saying I won't appeal, I'm just saying I shouldn't need to. there's no reason they can't issue me the permit. filing an appeal is just extra effort on my behalf and extra effort needed on the PD's behalf that is totally unnecessary.
    yes I know filing appeals adds pressure to the PDs long term, it also creates more work for them though which I'd imagine might slow the process for everyone else in line too
    as soon as I get my dates I will definitely be appealing if it hasn't been approved/issued by that point

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    If you go and have a hearing, I would suggest the OP have a lawyer represent him. Really, I see a need.
    what would the need be? because I have a criminal history? I got caught doing doughnuts in a farmers field when I was 18 [over a decade ago], during the crop rotation nonetheless, so there was no damage to anything. according to CGS 28-29 and 29-28 that shouldn't be relevant to a CT PP
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-15-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    I'm not saying I won't appeal, I'm just saying I shouldn't need to. there's no reason they can't issue me the permit. filing an appeal is just extra effort on my behalf and extra effort needed on the PD's behalf that is totally unnecessary.
    But that is the point, is it not? Give them the choice between an exponential increase in paperwork or issuing permits according to state law.

    yes I know filing appeals adds pressure to the PDs long term, it also creates more work for them though which I'd imagine might slow the process for everyone else in line too
    That is the PD's problem, not yours. If they followed the law like they are supposed to, it would not be an issue. They always have that option...

    what would the need be? because I have a criminal history? I got caught doing doughnuts in a farmers field when I was 18 [over a decade ago], during the crop rotation nonetheless, so there was no damage to anything. according to CGS 28-29 and 29-28 that shouldn't be relevant to a CT PP
    Suitability can be a lot broader than the disqualifiers. You saw that when they denied you the first time. If you had appealed at that point, you would have likely gone in front of the BFPE who would have told you to submit a new application disclosing the arrest and told the local issuing authority to issue the permit when they receive it.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    november 15th: got a call bright and early at 8:30am today from detective smith. seems she heard my voicemail and probably heard from the others I left voicemails for, all of which I stated I wanted to know the date middletown PD received my BG check. it seems she heard it all incorrectly, because she seemed quite flustered when she called me and continued to tell me she doesnt know the date my permit will be approved, and the exact date my permit will be approved cannot be determined, and that my PP is not the only one they are working on; that they have other peoples' permits to work on as well as other cases to work on not related to PP's.

    seems she heard my messages completely wrong, thinking I was asking for the exact date that I would get my permit. I let her rant for a minute, then said "I understand that. I apologise for the confusion, but the date that I would like to know is the date that middletown PD received my national BG check". she replied with "oh, well I don't have your file in front of me, so I don't know the answer to that right now. I've completed my part of your application and it has been passed on to Captain Lozefski. It should be completed very soon, and I assure you as soon as it is completed you will be the first to know. In fact I will make absolutely certain you are the first person I call when it is completed".

    I think she now knows I'm going to appeal. in everything she's said when I've spoken to her she has never mentioned anything that would hint a denial, rather it has implied I will get approved, just not Yet.

    ...on to filing an appeal. I'll fill out the letter and questionaire tonight when I get home from work, and will mail out first thing tomorrow.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    They are just blowing smoke. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    funny thing just happened, I was literally 5 seconds from walking out the door to head to the post office to mail my appeal, and Middletown PD called to tell me my permit is ready ))

    thank you everyone for the assistance, this is an awesome site. I have been on and off this site for almost a year now and much credit must be given to all members, especially ctcarry dot org.

    I'm sure I'll be around now and again still asking questions and trying to help others myself

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    funny thing just happened, I was literally 5 seconds from walking out the door to head to the post office to mail my appeal, and Middletown PD called to tell me my permit is ready ))

    thank you everyone for the assistance, this is an awesome site. I have been on and off this site for almost a year now and much credit must be given to all members, especially ctcarry dot org.

    I'm sure I'll be around now and again still asking questions and trying to help others myself
    That's good news .. and your saved a whopping 45 cents

  14. #14
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That's good news .. and your saved a whopping 45 cents
    I did! I was actually smart enough to not put the stamps on it til I was actually sending it out lol

    and sadly, when I picked up the permit, I asked for the date they received my national background check. the officer went back to ask, and came back saying "we don't record the date we receive it, only the date we send the prints out". I just said ok and gave up trying to get the dates, I have my permit now at least, 8 weeks and 3 days after submitting the app.
    and DPS did not give me any hassle at all for having an out of state drivers liscense, and even better there was no line. purchasing a handgun though I did have to provide a 2nd form of government document with my Middletown address on it, I used a court document haha. the salesman chuckled about that a bit, but said it was the perfect thing to use aside from a non-driver ID
    Last edited by motoxmann; 11-16-2012 at 06:38 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    FYI, I have an out of state driver's license. when I went to DPS for my state permit, they did not give me any hassle at all, and they did not request anything proving my CT address. my NY drivers liscense and Middletown temp permit, and my passport (which don't have addresses), were all I showed them.

    however, when I purchased a handgun, they require the state permit and a 2nd form of government document which has an address matching the address on the PP. key word ANY government document. and because my drivers license doesn't match my PP address, I needed another document. tax forms are the most common. I don't have a tax form with my current address yet though, so I used a court document. the salesman chuckled at the irony, but said it was the perfect document to use, and the purchase was made.

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