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Thread: Fort Sill Federal Credit Union

  1. #1
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    Fort Sill Federal Credit Union

    I e-mailed them in regard to there no firearms policy a few weeks ago this is the reply i got



    I would like to thank you for taking the time to provide us with your input. We consider our members input very valuable. As a federal credit union, according to current state law, concealed or open carry weapons are not authorized inside our facilities. Additionally, the current law allows for business owners to not allow concealed or open carry weapons in their facilities. The law also goes on to say that we, the business owner, cannot ask you if you are licensed to carry any weapon you may have on you, concealed or open carry. To that end, any weapon brought into a financial institution by anyone other than law enforcement or our security personnel becomes a point of concern, creating increased levels of tension and stress as we have no way to determine if the person is licensed or not. To avoid conflict, our policy is to not allow those weapons in the facilities.



    In your email you also made reference to other financial institutions that allow concealed or open carry in their facilities. I must admit that I am at a loss on this as I could not find one in the number of other institutions that I spoke to who would allow weapons in their facilities. I would greatly appreciate any additional information you may be able to provide me so that I may research this further.



    Again, thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated.





    Thank you

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    Bull sh&t

    Unless they are located on the base they are not A federal instalation they are just insured by the federal Gov. As I just recently moved back down here from Wa. The Kitsap Federal Credit union pulled the same sh(t. Its just an excuse they use to to tell you that thry want your money in their bank but not your legaly carried weapon.
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    As a federal credit union, according to current state law, concealed or open carry weapons are not authorized inside our facilities.
    There is no such law in Oklahoma nor in Federal Statutes. They are not a "federal facility", they are a business.

    the current law allows for business owners to not allow concealed or open carry weapons in their facilities.
    True. However, the current law also allows for business owners not to do this, and to allow lawful carry.

    The law also goes on to say that we, the business owner, cannot ask you if you are licensed to carry any weapon you may have on you, concealed or open carry.
    Incorrect. The law allows them to ask whatever they want. They can ask if you are licensed, they can ask how is your day, they can even ask you to play naked twister if they want. What they cannot do is force you to comply with ANY of these requests.

    BTW, how does that work out with criminals who don't care in the slightest about your signs or policies? Any idea how many lawful carriers have robbed a bank or shot someone just because? Exactly ZERO. By the way, a 2006 FBI study showed that ZERO criminals open carry. If you see a properly holstered handgun, chances are 99 33/100% that you are looking at a law abiding citizen.

    To that end, any weapon brought into a financial institution by anyone other than law enforcement or our security personnel becomes a point of concern, creating increased levels of tension and stress as we have no way to determine if the person is licensed or not.
    To that end, being expected to go disarmed in a place like a bank or credit union with a known history of attracting criminal activity becomes a point of concern, creating increased levels of tension or stress as we have no way to determine if the credit union or bank will ensure my safety as I carry large amounts of cash either into or out of your institution.

    The weapons they need to worry about are the ones they don't see, being carried by criminals. Their signs and policies clearly communicate to a criminal that they are unlikely to meet armed resistance. If you were planning to rob a bank, would you choose the bank that welcomes lawfully armed customers, or the one that advertises a gun free zone?



    In your email you also made reference to other financial institutions that allow concealed or open carry in their facilities. I must admit that I am at a loss on this as I could not find one in the number of other institutions that I spoke to who would allow weapons in their facilities. I would greatly appreciate any additional information you may be able to provide me so that I may research this further.
    Bancfirst, Bank of Oklahoma, and Credit Union One are three examples that come to mind. All three of those institutions are seeing more new customers as a result of the other financial institutions turning away licensed carriers.
    Last edited by okiebryan; 11-16-2012 at 02:34 AM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MM_45 View Post
    I e-mailed them in regard to there no firearms policy a few weeks ago this is the reply i got



    I would like to thank you for taking the time to provide us with your input. We consider our members input very valuable. As a federal credit union, according to current state law, concealed or open carry weapons are not authorized inside our facilities. Additionally, the current law allows for business owners to not allow concealed or open carry weapons in their facilities. The law also goes on to say that we, the business owner, cannot ask you if you are licensed to carry any weapon you may have on you, concealed or open carry. To that end, any weapon brought into a financial institution by anyone other than law enforcement or our security personnel becomes a point of concern, creating increased levels of tension and stress as we have no way to determine if the person is licensed or not. To avoid conflict, our policy is to not allow those weapons in the facilities.



    In your email you also made reference to other financial institutions that allow concealed or open carry in their facilities. I must admit that I am at a loss on this as I could not find one in the number of other institutions that I spoke to who would allow weapons in their facilities. I would greatly appreciate any additional information you may be able to provide me so that I may research this further.



    Again, thank you for your input, it is greatly appreciated.





    Thank you
    There is no state law or federal law that prevents carry in a financial institution. If the business is on base at Ft Sill, there is a base restriction, but not a business restriction.

    Easiest answer to his email is to give him a link to the state and federal law, and also quote to the law...where the restrictions on carry are innumerated. (OK: 21-1277, US 18-USC-930)

    You can also tell the guy that Ft Sill Federal Credit union is not a federal institution as per 18-usc-930, and even if it was, the lawful carry for your own personal self defence is exempt via 18-USC-930(d)(3) send him a link.

    You can also ask him if his paycheck is a US government paycheck and what his GS rank is...or...is his paycheck from the private US banking institution that is incorporated under the name "Ft Sill Federal Credit Union"?

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    They do have a branch on base and i know that is off limits but they have like 2 branches off base in Lawton that are posted. I e-mailed them back as soon as i received there e-mail took them like 3 weeks to respond and i did tell them there wasnt a state law against it and that BancFirst and Bank of Oklahoma allow it. I will also e-mail again with 18-USC- 930.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    I'm appalled nobody else here has done research why some institutions are called federal credit unions.

    Here's why:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Credit_Union_Act

    No they're not federally owned, but they are apart of a federal program. Being apart of a federal program doesn't mean the land or business is under federal law for carrying a firearm.

    I'm giving you all homework, now go study. Read on why credit unions exist. Tell me what happened to the banks during the great depression.

    Additional note on Fort Still FCU:

    From the about page:
    http://www.fsfcu.com/home/information/aboutus
    Fort Sill Federal Credit Union is a not-for-profit cooperative offering members a balanced variety of financial services. Unlike banks, the Credit Union is owned and directed by members with no outside stockholders or paid Board of Directors. Members volunteer to serve on the Board of Directors and are elected by the membership.
    Last edited by david.ross; 11-17-2012 at 06:34 PM.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    I'm giving you all homework, now go study. Read on why credit unions exist. Tell me what happened to the banks during the great depression.
    Irrelevent and off topic.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Irrelevent and off topic.
    Not irrelevant, gives insight as to why they're called federal credit unions. Go troll elsewhere.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Not irrelevant, gives insight as to why they're called federal credit unions. Go troll elsewhere.
    Giving one's opinion about the relevancy is not trolling. We don't need this type of personal attack.
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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    I just got off the phone with one of the supervisors along with one of the bank managers. The original reply from the FCU is lengthy and not direct enough in my view. For clarification, since even I felt the reply gave the impression "we're a federal institution" by the wording, it was not intended to be interpreted in such a way. Sure there are banks which allow carry, others do not. My personal belief is if you feel offended by an institution not allowing carry of a firearm, then don't patronize the business. You are free to choose.


    A simple explanation: The FCU is exercising their private property rights, the carry of firearms is not allowed unless the individual is a police officer

    note: there are 'no firearms' signed posted at all customer entrances
    Last edited by david.ross; 11-20-2012 at 09:38 AM.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Not irrelevant, gives insight as to why they're called federal credit unions. Go troll elsewhere.
    What you actually said was, "Read on why credit unions exist. Tell me what happened to the banks during the great depression."

    It's no more relevant than why some banks are called "national bank" or "state bank". Both "federal" and independent credit unions are private institutions just like banks, and all are free to restrict carry the same as any other private entity, and the Great Depression has nothing to do with it.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    What you actually said was, "Read on why credit unions exist. Tell me what happened to the banks during the great depression."

    It's no more relevant than why some banks are called "national bank" or "state bank". Both "federal" and independent credit unions are private institutions just like banks, and all are free to restrict carry the same as any other private entity, and the Great Depression has nothing to do with it.
    While a few of us understand why it's called a federal credit union, many actually believe FCUs are federal. I've had several employees from FCUs tell me firearms are not allowed because they're federal, along with people who carry firearms.

    Having people do research to understand the definition of FCUs to be completely clear on the definition, is not irrelevant or off-topic. Having people learn and do research will allow people to grasp the concept of the definition of a FCU and understand they're not federal just because of the name. I'm basing this off of constant misconceptions of other people, what part of this are you having trouble understanding?
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    While a few of us understand why it's called a federal credit union, many actually believe FCUs are federal. I've had several employees from FCUs tell me firearms are not allowed because they're federal, along with people who carry firearms.

    Having people do research to understand the definition of FCUs to be completely clear on the definition, is not irrelevant or off-topic. Having people learn and do research will allow people to grasp the concept of the definition of a FCU and understand they're not federal just because of the name. I'm basing this off of constant misconceptions of other people, what part of this are you having trouble understanding?
    They are a co-operative, that is the "credit union" part of their name. They are chartered under federal financial services law, not state financial services law...That is why they are called a "federal" credit union...rather than "state" credit union.

    It is totally irrelevant to whether they are a "federal" facility, or not. They are a private, co-operative, financial services company..that is all. If they choose to restrict carry at their branch office,,,I have no problem taking my business elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    While a few of us understand why it's called a federal credit union, many actually believe FCUs are federal. I've had several employees from FCUs tell me firearms are not allowed because they're federal, along with people who carry firearms.
    And, we've repeatedly heard banks claim they are "federal" because they're insured by FDIC.


    Having people do research to understand the definition of FCUs to be completely clear on the definition, is not irrelevant or off-topic. Having people learn and do research will allow people to grasp the concept of the definition of a FCU and understand they're not federal just because of the name. I'm basing this off of constant misconceptions of other people, what part of this are you having trouble understanding?
    The people who have trouble understanding this are not the members of OCDO, who mostly know that banks and credit unions aren't "federal facilities". You should direct your educational efforts at bank employees who have no clue about gun laws, and simply try to come up with a reason to ban them that sounds official, plausible, and intimidating.

    Although, I would offer this advice: assigning them homework on the great depression as if they're school children, without giving context or relevancy, will not produce the outcome you desire. I mean, look at me: I agree with you, yet we're sitting here arguing over your attempted methods of "educating" people, people who are on your side.

    If you really want to talk about the Great Depression, we can talk about Hoover and Coolidge, Keynes and the Federal Reserve, FDR as savior or scumbag, but again: that really won't be helpful to the end game. The only relevant point is that "federal credit unions" aren't federal property. Suggesting one research the history of the Depression to understand that reminds me of my late father's description of one of his friends: "You could ask him what time it was, and he would launch into the history of the clock."

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, a few observations.

    I see no harm in mentioning briefly the history behind a relevent subject - links provide direction to those interested in building their knowledge base. Dwelling on the historic data sometimes is what misdirects/highjacks a thread and loses sight of the primary reason for that thread. If indepth analysis of the background material is the goal, then a new thread (linked in the original) should be started in the appropriate sub-forum - that will not necessarily be a state forum. In this case the Social Lounge would have been more fitting for an extended discussion on the history of Credit Unions.

    Extending self-moderation to redirecting others can be very benefitial to the forum, but protracted conversations to that end are inappropriate. Then those replies themselves become the misdirect/highjack of the thread. IMO the question generated by the OP has been asked and answered.

    What remains is to solve the problem of businesses that do not get the message, don't understand the true nature of what they are doing....if we can. If not be we add them to "the" list and keep on moving.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-21-2012 at 08:42 AM. Reason: added last paragraph.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Fort Sill Federal Credit Union

    If we can't get along and have intelligent conversations within our "carry family", how in the HELL are we suppose to accomplish anything with businesses that are anti. I swear this crap gets old, to many posts get way off topic and out of hand.
    How about we rally the troops, call, email and send letters to the businesses, not gripe at each other over definitions!
    I understand and agree with the intention of the post, but state your fact and move along with the topic!

    ............................--Moderator Comment--

    That was the purpose of my posting above this one. Just said it a little bit nicer
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-21-2012 at 10:40 AM.

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    relevancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Giving one's opinion about the relevancy is not trolling. We don't need this type of personal attack.
    His statement is 100% relevant. Yours is off-base.

    --Moderator Comment--

    Want to try that one again after you read the Forum Rules

    6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-21-2012 at 01:20 PM.

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