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Mass Shooting Intervention

aa1911

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
106
Location
Yelm, WA
orientate is not a word... orient....

but on a serious note, have to agree BigDave.

moving targets add a huge challenge


but rest assured, when someone is shooting at you, your actions will certainly be altered a tad!!!!

known, likely, suspected enemy positions..... light 'em up, if nothing else, suppression helps quite a bit. Best suppression is death, but close shots don't hurt either... makes you re-think your actions at that moment.

the CO shooter obviously couldn't handle a fight as he pretty much turned himself in not wanting to get shot. hmmm.... methinks a few rounds tossed back in his direction would have possibly changed his course of action at least a bit.

oh wait, guns are scary, lets just ban them all then we'll all be 100% safe, right?
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Range I use doesn't allow draw from holster, so closest I can get is to do first shot with long trigger pull from uncocked hammer (Sig 2022) and second round from cocked. Then decock and repeat. Not as good as full dress rehearsal with al the bangs and flashing lights, but better than just relaxed shooting.
 

BigDave

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Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Range I use doesn't allow draw from holster, so closest I can get is to do first shot with long trigger pull from uncocked hammer (Sig 2022) and second round from cocked. Then decock and repeat. Not as good as full dress rehearsal with al the bangs and flashing lights, but better than just relaxed shooting.

There are a few training schools or classes that offer the ability to do all of these and thus my point earlier.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
Range I use doesn't allow draw from holster, so closest I can get is to do first shot with long trigger pull from uncocked hammer (Sig 2022) and second round from cocked. Then decock and repeat. Not as good as full dress rehearsal with al the bangs and flashing lights, but better than just relaxed shooting.

Which range, I do holster draw whenever I shoot at KRRC
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
The Tacoma Mall shooting back in 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting is a good example of what not to do.

If Dan had shot first, and he had NOT opened his mouth, maybe he would not be paralized today. Active shooter, say nothing, and make sure your first shot is as damaging as is possible to the BG, and minimum possible harm to any others people that may be near.

I normally carry a CZ85, 17 rounds of 9mm cannot get the job done, I need to be somewhere else. My main alternate is an Officers Model Colt 38 target poistol,,,again, if 6 cannot get the job done, I need to be somewhere else. Neither one of these carries is an offensive weapon, they are not designed to start a fight, just end it.

Its always been my opinion that if the use of deadly force is legally justified and I have not found in law where any warning is required. I also think that it is tactically unsound to give any warning.

In my situation if the use of deadly force is required and legally justified I would not give any warning.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Its always been my opinion that if the use of deadly force is legally justified and I have not found in law where any warning is required. I also think that it is tactically unsound to give any warning.

In my situation if the use of deadly force is required and legally justified I would not give any warning.

You are absolutely correct...active shooter...if you say anything you will only draw fire and not accomplish anything positive (for you)

For Dave...I find your comment interesting on a moving target...for whatever reason, it is much easier for me to score 25 of 25 in trap than 100/100 in 1000m Browning Superpoised/Rem 700.

I have never tried moving target with a pistol, but I would expect I would be able to do that fairly easily...sounds like fun.
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
Range I use doesn't allow draw from holster, so closest I can get is to do first shot with long trigger pull from uncocked hammer (Sig 2022) and second round from cocked. Then decock and repeat. Not as good as full dress rehearsal with al the bangs and flashing lights, but better than just relaxed shooting.

As an alternative to drawing from a holster you could start at a low ready, then you are practicing your sight aquisition as if it were a holster draw.

I've said it before, some of the best practice I have seen is during practical pistol competitions. Almost all stages start from a loaded, chambered, and holstered handgun. You have to engage a variety of targets from 2 feet to 50+. Paper targets you have to double tap (not a bad habit to learn). All in all it is great practice all around and a hell of an afternoon. There is people of all skill levels there, chances are no matter how bad you think you are, there will be someone worse than you incase you are afraid of a blow to your ego.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...It got me wondering if anyone here has changed the weapon they carry in light of the mass shootings in Colorado, Texas, Wisconsin, etc.. Have you changed to ... carrying something with a higher capacity mag? Do you carry more mags with mass shootings in mind?...

Nope.

I still carry a 6- or 9-round .45. But yes, it is usually full-size, which makes for a more shootable weapon.

This was still one guy meeting ZERO resistance. Even with body armor, you aren't likely to be too active a threat if being hit by 230-grain projectiles. I use a handgun within its design: to buy me only the few seconds I need to get the hell out. If one magazine or cylinder isn't enough, three probably isn't either. I'm still waiting for someone to show me a legitimate example where one wasn't.
 
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MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...say nothing, and make sure your first shot is as damaging as is possible to the BG, and minimum possible harm to any others people that may be near...

Amen.

monologuing-shark-death-monologuing-demotivational-posters-1315491300.jpg
 
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DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
An Air Force Security Policeman named Andrew Brown (who by the way, graduated from my Alma Mater of South Kitsap High School) scored a 70 yard head shot while under rifle fire during a mass shooting at the Fairchild AFB hospital in Spokane. If you practice enough it's not unthinkable to take a distance shot if you have it.

I'm aware of this as I was there, I know Andy and have talked to him within the last year. I was the Paramedic that worked on the shooter that Andy took down. That was the begining of hell week with a B-52 crashing on that Friday (4 days later). What is usally lost was Andy was on Bike patrol and was at the back gate about 1/4-1/2 mile away from the hospital. He rode to the hospital, got off his bike and then got off 4 rounds.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I'm aware of this as I was there, I know Andy and have talked to him within the last year. I was the Paramedic that worked on the shooter that Andy took down. That was the begining of hell week with a B-52 crashing on that Friday (4 days later). What is usally lost was Andy was on Bike patrol and was at the back gate about 1/4-1/2 mile away from the hospital. He rode to the hospital, got off his bike and then got off 4 rounds.

I was aware of the bicycle patrol. I read Mas ayoobs write up on the incident. I don't see how that changes the feat of a 70 yard take down. I woulda emptied that berettas mag and be lucky to hit that shooter once. I think that's excellent marksmanship for a pistol myself. Firing four shots with two hits at 70+, I doubt I can do it with a B92.....
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
I was aware of the bicycle patrol. I read Mas ayoobs write up on the incident. I don't see how that changes the feat of a 70 yard take down. I woulda emptied that berettas mag and be lucky to hit that shooter once. I think that's excellent marksmanship for a pistol myself. Firing four shots with two hits at 70+, I doubt I can do it with a B92.....

The funny thing is one of Andy's rounds ended up in TSgt OP's 2 week old red MIATA. The shooter was standing in front of it maybe 30 yards. I had to give 4 reports that night one to the local cops, OSI, FBI, and the bsae cops. They all wanted their own, I said why don't you just make four copies of the first one but typical goverment waste I had 4 interviews. I'm sure Andy had a even more intense evening than me though.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
The funny thing is one of Andy's rounds ended up in TSgt OP's 2 week old red MIATA. The shooter was standing in front of it maybe 30 yards. I had to give 4 reports that night one to the local cops, OSI, FBI, and the bsae cops. They all wanted their own, I said why don't you just make four copies of the first one but typical goverment waste I had 4 interviews. I'm sure Andy had a even more intense evening than me though.

Yeah sounds like that, well I can't blame the local cops, the FEDS should have been able to all use the same report. why so many agencies? whose juristiction was it? I know the Spokane County Sheriff declared Brown justified, but I don't know why his department was even involved seeing as it was federal property.

Well at least he didn't die in his new miata.
My father was an SP at Fairchild from 86 to 90 and in 86 or 87 he was coming to work and stopped at the exchange to get a soda on the way in is how he tells the story, and he walks out and right in front of him a KC-135 crashes at the foot of a runway and came close to crashing into Base Ops. well according to my dad a crew member who was supposed to be on that plane was changed to work a shift at ops that day, didn't help him, It was something wierd like his brand new car caught fire and he was stuck inside it. Didn't get the same press as the 52 crash years later, but there you have it.

Oh well. I guess I better go and enlist so I can have exciting stories about being 500 yards from a crashing air-refueler :eek:

Yeah I read about the fairchild hospital shooting in American Handgunner, and after that I punched it in on Youtube and saw an interview with Brown from the Spokane news station, and he's like "well I'm orginally from Port Orchard (a small town in western washington on kitsap county) and I'm like "THAT'S WHERE I AM" so i looked into my mom's year book, and there's Andy Brown in the sophmore section! Talk about notable alumni....
 
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