Mass shooting at Mo. theater averted

skidmark · Nov 16, 2012

http://tinyurl.com/cdyb2nf

Police in Bolivar, Mo. said they uncovered a young man's plan to commit mass murder at a screening of the new "Twilight" movie.
According to court documents obtained by KCTV, [name redacted to deny him recognition] planned to carry out a mass shooting at a theater in Bolivar and later decided a better location would be a Walmart, because it would have access to more ammunition.
....
KY3TV reports that [name redacted to deny him recognition] also allegedly told police "he had a lot in common" with people who have carried out recent mass shootings, according to a probable cause statement obtained by the station. "He stated that he was quiet, kind of a loner, had recently purchased firearms and didn't tell anybody about it, and had homicidal thoughts," the statement said.

Even including the homocidal thoughts this nut-job is really not that different from the rest of us. What makes him different, among important tings, is that he has a mother who both keeps tab on what her kid is doing* and is willing to "do the right thing". What makes this guy different from many of the recent mass shooters is that he did not post his plans on FaceBook.

stay safe.

* - It's just a guess, but I do not think he lived in his mother's basement eating Cheetos, drinking Mountain Dew, and playing video games all day and night. And it's also just a guess that his mother was not constantly monitoring (spying) on him.

I am waiting for the anti-gun rights crowd to chime in and say we need to pass another law to make sure something like this sdoes not happen again. He knew there were laws (lots of laws!) against what he was thinking of doing. Those laws do not seem to have made any difference. But apparently, so the anti-gun rights crowd says, we have not passed the law that will be able to stop these things from happening. :banghead:

IMHO what we as a society ought to do is let his mother know that we support her decision to turn in her son.

matt2636 · Nov 17, 2012

its good to see this was stopped. im glad the mother had enough concern to call the police when she did. good for her.

Griz · Nov 17, 2012

He did have an interesting thought process. Changing to Walmart for more ammunition shows more intelligence than some of the more recent shooters.

On the lighter side, it was "Twilight". How much damage (benefit?) could he do to the gene pool?

PistolPackingMomma · Nov 17, 2012

Situations like this make me wonder; are the mentally upset so much more prone to violence, or are they simply more susceptible to suggestion?

Griz said:
On the lighter side, it was "Twilight". How much damage (benefit?) could he do to the gene pool?

I may or may not have just snorted coffee through my nose...

MikeTheGreek · Nov 17, 2012

Griz said:
He did have an interesting thought process. Changing to Walmart for more ammunition shows more intelligence than some of the more recent shooters.

On the lighter side, it was "Twilight". How much damage (benefit?) could he do to the gene pool?

I know I shouldn't be laughing but I am...

Although..being younger, most girls I've dated have loved Twilight, so I've seen all of the movies at least 3 times..

They're....not that bad

davidmcbeth · Nov 17, 2012

Maybe he was making plans so to design a counter plan to protect people.

zack991 · Nov 17, 2012

MikeTheGreek said:
I know I shouldn't be laughing but I am...

Although..being younger, most girls I've dated have loved Twilight, so I've seen all of the movies at least 3 times..

They're....not that bad

Please turn in your man card.

Lord Sega · Nov 17, 2012

While it's good that another mass shooting may have been avoided, what do they really have on him?
Just to play the devils advocate...

Being a loner (even if still living in mom's basement) is not a crime. (and if at mom's, she as the owner could prohibit guns in her house.)
Buying and owning guns is not a crime (unless he was prohibited... is his mental illness documented to the point he can't have guns?)
Thinking about doing something is not a crime. (1984 thought crimes, really?)

So, all they have is his statements. The news article doesn't state that he made statements to his mom, just her saying he bought guns.
What was the RAS or PC to investigate prior to his statements to police?

Now this is off the cuff, I need to read the actual laws of his state for the charges, but my thoughts at first...

After being interviewed they charge him with:
First-degree assault - who did he assault? Maybe attempted assault, but if he never even started his plan, he hadn't attempted anything... yet.
Making a terroristic threat - only based on his statements to the LEOs, again, thought crime based.
Armed criminal action - where is the action? He had not done anything yet, until there is action this doesn't appear to apply.

Once he has a lawyer, and recants his confession, and it's determined that the LEOs did not have RAS or PC to "interview" him so the statements are thrown out, what then?

Shouldn't the LEOs have advised the mom that there was nothing they could do but keep an eye on him at that point, but recommend that she get her son in to see a shrink if she felt he was having problems? Then based of the shrink's findings, she could possibly petition the courts for an order to remove / confiscate the guns as a danger to himself and others i.e officially declaring him prohibited?

If he had taken the 5th instead of opening up and confessing his thoughts, he would been back hone, with his guns, still planning or maybe executing his plan.
It's good to stop a mass shooting, but I'm just seeing a real over-reach by the LEOs and a real mess in the courts once he gets a competent lawyer.

Just my thoughts...

Freedom1Man · Nov 19, 2012

Griz said:
He did have an interesting thought process. Changing to Walmart for more ammunition shows more intelligence than some of the more recent shooters.

On the lighter side, it was "Twilight". How much damage (benefit?) could he do to the gene pool?

The Walmartians might have been the real target.

davidmcbeth · Nov 19, 2012

Freedom1Man said:
The Walmartians might have been the real target.

"Walmart" or "Gun Emporium" ... which target to choose ... hmmmmm

Really, we have no idea what the idiot told the cops .. me may have hung himself ... time will tell.

But just making a "plan" isn't enough ... IMO

KYGlockster · Nov 19, 2012

Lord Sega said:
While it's good that another mass shooting may have been avoided, what do they really have on him?
Just to play the devils advocate...

Being a loner (even if still living in mom's basement) is not a crime. (and if at mom's, she as the owner could prohibit guns in her house.)
Buying and owning guns is not a crime (unless he was prohibited... is his mental illness documented to the point he can't have guns?)
Thinking about doing something is not a crime. (1984 thought crimes, really?)

So, all they have is his statements. The news article doesn't state that he made statements to his mom, just her saying he bought guns.
What was the RAS or PC to investigate prior to his statements to police?

Now this is off the cuff, I need to read the actual laws of his state for the charges, but my thoughts at first...

After being interviewed they charge him with:
First-degree assault - who did he assault? Maybe attempted assault, but if he never even started his plan, he hadn't attempted anything... yet.
Making a terroristic threat - only based on his statements to the LEOs, again, thought crime based.
Armed criminal action - where is the action? He had not done anything yet, until there is action this doesn't appear to apply.

Once he has a lawyer, and recants his confession, and it's determined that the LEOs did not have RAS or PC to "interview" him so the statements are thrown out, what then?

Shouldn't the LEOs have advised the mom that there was nothing they could do but keep an eye on him at that point, but recommend that she get her son in to see a shrink if she felt he was having problems? Then based of the shrink's findings, she could possibly petition the courts for an order to remove / confiscate the guns as a danger to himself and others i.e officially declaring him prohibited?

If he had taken the 5th instead of opening up and confessing his thoughts, he would been back hone, with his guns, still planning or maybe executing his plan.
It's good to stop a mass shooting, but I'm just seeing a real over-reach by the LEOs and a real mess in the courts once he gets a competent lawyer.

Just my thoughts...

My thoughts exactly.

If all they have is his confession to the police, then they have NOTHING. He can say he was going to do whatever he pleases, but without evidence that a crime has taken place, then they will have nothing to charge him with in court. I don't see how he could be charged with terroristic threatening or any like charge because it was a self-confession to the investigators, and not to an individual person.

It has long been established that without evidence, a crime cannot be prosecuted. I could walk into my local police station right now and admit to a murder, but without evidence that shows the crime was committed and that it is probable that it was committed by me then they have nothing to charge me with.

I am confused here; is there other information in this case floating around or is this it?

skidmark · Nov 19, 2012

KYGlockster said:
My thoughts exactly.
....

It has long been established that without evidence, a crime cannot be prosecuted. I could walk into my local police station right now and admit to a murder, but without evidence that shows the crime was committed and that it is probable that it was committed by me then they have nothing to charge me with.

....

I'm sorry. I'll stop laughing as soon as I can - that might take some time so feel free to go get a drink and a snack.

While it is supposed to be that they cannot convict you without evidence, we all know that is not how the system always works.

And I have looked at my original post where I said that his mother "did the right thing". I stand by that. But I agree with everybody else that the police seem to have gone way out of bounds in what they did after Mom contacted them. I suppose their "thinking" was that it is far better to violate the rights of one guy and most likely not have that plastered all over the media than to risk his carrying something out before they could start the temporary detention process of getting him in for a psych eval.

stay safe.

mustangkiller · Nov 19, 2012

Some have already mentioned that we are missing alot of details but....Who's to say he didn't volunteer all the info to the cops after being advised of his rights. If that's the case I see no issues with police action yet. The charges they filed sound odd because he didn't attempt anything yet. What they should and probably will charge him with is conspiracy of some kind. A crime doesn't need to take place just the planning of the crime.

Freedom1Man · Nov 21, 2012

mustangkiller said:
Some have already mentioned that we are missing alot of details but....Who's to say he didn't volunteer all the info to the cops after being advised of his rights. If that's the case I see no issues with police action yet. The charges they filed sound odd because he didn't attempt anything yet. What they should and probably will charge him with is conspiracy of some kind. A crime doesn't need to take place just the planning of the crime.

Unless there was another helping him then it cannot be conspiracy.

carolina guy · Nov 21, 2012

Freedom1Man said:
Unless there was another helping him then it cannot be conspiracy.

What happens with multiple personalities?

MKEgal · Nov 21, 2012

Lord Sega said:
What was the RAS or PC to investigate prior to his statements to police?

We need more information, real, good information, & we're unlikely to get that from the media.

Lord Sega said:
First-degree assault - whom did he assault? Maybe attempted assault, but if he never even started his plan, he hadn't attempted anything... yet.
Making a terroristic threat - only based on his statements to the LEOs, again, thought crime based.
Armed criminal action - where is the action? He had not done anything yet, until there is action this doesn't appear to apply.

In some states, the attempt is considered by law to be the same as a completed crime.
But it seems he hadn't actually done anything (illegal) yet, so they shouldn't even be able to use that against him.

article said:
if he ran out of ammunition... he would just break the glass where the ammunition is stored and get some more

Completely ignoring the fact that it leaves him vulnerable to someone attacking him while he's out of ammo.

Redbaron007 · Nov 21, 2012

Here is the link to the discussion in the MO thread.

In court yesterday, it was ordered by the judge for him to go under a psychological review. I asked an attorney friend of mine yesterday about the charges, he was a little confused too. (Disclosure...this attorney deals with civil matters, not criminal.)

Freedom1Man · Nov 21, 2012

carolina guy said:
What happens with multiple personalities?

The don't talk to each other and they often do things that the other ones don't seem to know about.

Source: My ex-wife.

She had multiple personality disorder and believe you me, if it didn't count as a "group activity" then, it's not conspiracy now.

Lord Sega · Nov 22, 2012

Freedom1Man said:
The don't talk to each other and they often do things that the other ones don't seem to know about.

Source: My ex-wife.

She had multiple personality disorder and believe you me, if it didn't count as a "group activity" then, it's not conspiracy now.

So Freedom1Man... while married to your ex, were you married to all the personalities thus guilty of bigamy, or just the one personality thus guilty of infidelity with the others?

Lord Sega · Nov 22, 2012

Now THAT'S how you go off topic in a thread around here!

Mass shooting at Mo. theater averted

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