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Thread: black powder bullet range

  1. #1
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Question black powder bullet range

    I realize this may be seen as non-OC related, but I'm asking you to permit me, as I know of no other place I can get some good opinions on this online: (?) If you have to delete me. . . . .OK.

    I was in my yard loading firewood last week, and my neighbor down the road was practicing his black powder rifle sights. After a series of shots, I heard another report, and immediately a sound of cutting pine twigs in the trees above my head and a bullet whine passed over my head. He lives probably 6-8 hundred yards down the road. I hollered "hey" three times to warn them, and the shooting stopped. I called him that evening to scold him for his carelessness, and he, a good fellow and friend, denied shooting my way, and denied that such a bullet could fly that far anyway. He pointed out there were sounds of a few other shots that day (but none were anywhere close to me, way off in the distance). I did not ask what calibre he was firing. I dropped it, but wonder am I crazy? Is that an impossible feat from that distance? Bullet and sound have different speeds, I know. There is pure silence out here where I live, and I know what I heard. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Before it gets sent to the circular forum (ECF)....You were well in range of almost all muzzle loaders. He was probably shooting a 50.

    I shoot my 54 Sharps at an 800 yard Gong on a regular basis. The big bullets have a rainbow trajectory but are perfectly capable of going well over a thousand yards.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-18-2012 at 09:11 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hey Joe, don't you OC when loading fire wood?

    This seems well within the specs of the Va. sub-forum. You reside in Va., were shot at(?) in Va. Your question was as to how far a black powder projectile might travel in Va.

    As to your neighbor, he apparently violated one of the most basic safety rules - know your backstop. Had he done that, he would not have to argue about how far the bullet would travel. It would have progressed to the backstop and stopped...........in Va.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    I realize this may be seen as non-OC related, but I'm asking you to permit me, as I know of no other place I can get some good opinions on this online: (?) If you have to delete me. . . . .OK.

    I was in my yard loading firewood last week, and my neighbor down the road was practicing his black powder rifle sights. After a series of shots, I heard another report, and immediately a sound of cutting pine twigs in the trees above my head and a bullet whine passed over my head. He lives probably 6-8 hundred yards down the road. I hollered "hey" three times to warn them, and the shooting stopped. I called him that evening to scold him for his carelessness, and he, a good fellow and friend, denied shooting my way, and denied that such a bullet could fly that far anyway. He pointed out there were sounds of a few other shots that day (but none were anywhere close to me, way off in the distance). I did not ask what calibre he was firing. I dropped it, but wonder am I crazy? Is that an impossible feat from that distance? Bullet and sound have different speeds, I know. There is pure silence out here where I live, and I know what I heard. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?
    Well your sequence is wrong especially at 600 to 800 yards. You would her the twigs break and then you would not hear the report until after noticeable delay after the twigs. I have been shot at with a rifle, and though I could hear the twigs I never heard any whine of the bullet. I would only think a high powered rifle would produce bullet whine. Not doubting your story but it would seem the shot was not from your neighbor.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Well your sequence is wrong especially at 600 to 800 yards. You would her the twigs break and then you would not hear the report until after noticeable delay after the twigs. I have been shot at with a rifle, and though I could hear the twigs I never heard any whine of the bullet. I would only think a high powered rifle would produce bullet whine. Not doubting your story but it would seem the shot was not from your neighbor.
    IIRC BP bullets can easily reach supersonic speeds, thus a sonic boom (often described as a "crack") as it passes by. This, as differentiated from the sound of the gun firing.

    Having been on the wrong end of bullet flight paths, I can say that some bullets you hear (that whizzing noise movies seem so enamored of), some you hear the sonic boom of, and some that were not one that hit you that you do not hear.

    The point being that someone who was shooting seemed to take umbrage at a suggestion that he may or may not have had a bullet go beyond his backstop, as opposed to saying something about taking steps to be sure that he continues to shoot safely.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    IIRC BP bullets can easily reach supersonic speeds, thus a sonic boom (often described as a "crack") as it passes by. This, as differentiated from the sound of the gun firing.

    Having been on the wrong end of bullet flight paths, I can say that some bullets you hear (that whizzing noise movies seem so enamored of), some you hear the sonic boom of, and some that were not one that hit you that you do not hear.

    The point being that someone who was shooting seemed to take umbrage at a suggestion that he may or may not have had a bullet go beyond his backstop, as opposed to saying something about taking steps to be sure that he continues to shoot safely.

    stay safe.
    These fine points are EXACTLY why I asked the question. The initial shot sound (which takes a while to reach the downrange ear), the potential sonic boom (heard downrange), the branches breaking, the bullet whining through the air, possibly tumbling out of symmetry, especially if a ricochet. I was working, not focusing on making observations in proper sequence of an unexpected event, so I cannot be sure of sequence, just the totality of events. My neighbor's yard is about an acre, and I have never seen any bullet backstop at all. I do believe the length of his yard (and direction of shots) is PERPENDICULAR to the straight road we both live on, so I don't think he makes a habit of shooting down the road, but across the road into the open field. I am DOWN the road the hundreds of yards I mentioned before. I just hope my saying something will lessen the possibility of a repeat event, IF, that is, he had anything to do with it at all.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    That's an excellent point Skid!
    I hadn't thought of the sonic boom because my 54,58's and 62's don't exceed 1000 FPS but the 50's do especially using Sabots.

    To keep this on OC terms Joe, I was just talking to a Farmer in Surry that has had feral Hogs pop up on his farm. These are enough reason to OC all the time. They are dangerous as well as destructive.

    There have always been reports of wild hogs in Va aside from the Dismal Swamp area but it appears that some NOVites trapped a few from down South and decided to stock NOVA with them.

    They have an unbelievable reproduction rate and very low mortality and took hold fast. Since there is very little hunting pressure up north, they are spreading toward DC but are also migrating South and for the first time, DGIF is actually admitting it.

    So now the Novites have something real to worry about when they go for their walks in the park.

    A couple showed up in Middleburg not long ago.

    You have a new reason to OC on your farm as well as off.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-19-2012 at 08:26 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's an excellent point Skid!
    I hadn't thought of the sonic boom because my 54,58's and 62's don't exceed 1000 FPS but the 50's do especially using Sabots.

    To keep this on OC terms Joe, I was just talking to a Farmer in Surry that has had feral Hogs pop up on his farm. These are enough reason to OC all the time. They are dangerous as well as destructive.

    There have always been reports of wild hogs in Va aside from the Dismal Swamp area but it appears that some NOVites trapped a few from down South and decided to stock NOVA with them.

    They have an unbelievable reproduction rate and very low mortality and took hold fast. Since there is very little hunting pressure up north, they are spreading toward DC but are also migrating South and for the first time, DGIF is actually admitting it.

    So now the Novites have something real to worry about when they go for their walks in the park.

    A couple showed up in Middleburg not long ago.

    You have a new reason to OC on your farm as well as off.
    WOW! Thanks for the heads-up. And, Surry is only seven miles away!
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    WOW! Thanks for the heads-up. And, Surry is only seven miles away!
    Excellent read:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...14a_story.html

    I have a lot of mental images of NOVAZILLA

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    IIRC BP bullets can easily reach supersonic speeds, thus a sonic boom (often described as a "crack") as it passes by. This, as differentiated from the sound of the gun firing.

    Having been on the wrong end of bullet flight paths, I can say that some bullets you hear (that whizzing noise movies seem so enamored of), some you hear the sonic boom of, and some that were not one that hit you that you do not hear.

    The point being that someone who was shooting seemed to take umbrage at a suggestion that he may or may not have had a bullet go beyond his backstop, as opposed to saying something about taking steps to be sure that he continues to shoot safely.

    stay safe.
    But why shouldn't he take umbrage if he knew he did not fire the shots. There is no way that the OP heard the shot BEFORE the whizzing and twigs breaking. There would have been probably about two seconds lag of the boom from the gun, it is very noticeable. I had a high powered bullet strike beside me at around 800 yards and I did not hear the report for at least a second.

    That is why they claim you never hear the shot that kills you. IMO it does not sound like the neighbor was responsible, he may not even have been shooting his direction. And I can certainly tell you if someone accuses me of something I know I did not do, I am going to tell them to "BUGGER OFF".

    It is never wise to accuse someone of an act unless positive they committed the act, and it just does not sound that way with the OP.
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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    These fine points are EXACTLY why I asked the question. The initial shot sound (which takes a while to reach the downrange ear), the potential sonic boom (heard downrange), the branches breaking, the bullet whining through the air, possibly tumbling out of symmetry, especially if a ricochet. I was working, not focusing on making observations in proper sequence of an unexpected event, so I cannot be sure of sequence, just the totality of events. My neighbor's yard is about an acre, and I have never seen any bullet backstop at all. I do believe the length of his yard (and direction of shots) is PERPENDICULAR to the straight road we both live on, so I don't think he makes a habit of shooting down the road, but across the road into the open field. I am DOWN the road the hundreds of yards I mentioned before. I just hope my saying something will lessen the possibility of a repeat event, IF, that is, he had anything to do with it at all.
    Your neighbor shoots across the road? Is he located within a city or town? Does the county restrict this by local ordinance?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Your neighbor shoots across the road? Is he located within a city or town? Does the county restrict this by local ordinance?
    State law restricts that I believe!

    Yep:
    Discharge a firearm or archery tackle in or across or within the right-of-way of any public road.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-19-2012 at 11:06 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Your neighbor shoots across the road? Is he located within a city or town? Does the county restrict this by local ordinance?
    I think the OP is making a lot of assumptions, that he does not have facts to back up. If the neighbor was doing something wrong then it was wrong, but making accusations on guessing can lead to problems with neighbors. I can almost bet that every time the OP sneezes it is going to get reported to the gooberment.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Your neighbor shoots across the road? Is he located within a city or town? Does the county restrict this by local ordinance?
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    State law restricts that I believe!

    Yep:
    § 18.2-286. Shooting in or across road or in street.
    If any person discharges a firearm, crossbow or bow and arrow in or across any road, or within the right-of-way thereof, or in a street of any city or town, he shall, for each offense, be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to firing ranges or shooting matches maintained, and supervised or approved, by law-enforcement officers and military personnel in performance of their lawful duties.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    § 18.2-286. Shooting in or across road or in street.
    If any person discharges a firearm, crossbow or bow and arrow in or across any road, or within the right-of-way thereof, or in a street of any city or town, he shall, for each offense, be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to firing ranges or shooting matches maintained, and supervised or approved, by law-enforcement officers and military personnel in performance of their lawful duties.
    It's a pretty Micky Mouse charge. Max is $250.00 fine and more like $25.00 and cost the first time.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Just in case you were wondering Joe...Yesterday in Surry:


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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    you could hear the shot first at those distances

    Black powder bullets usually are at or below the speed of sound (yeah sabots go faster for a while). My guess would be a skip off a berm. Big bullets are good skippers. Your neighbor is sure he was keeping them in the dirt but a skip could put them way up over your head. The sound in this scenario arrives first. Just thinkin......
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    Black powder bullets usually are at or below the speed of sound (yeah sabots go faster for a while). My guess would be a skip off a berm. Big bullets are good skippers. Your neighbor is sure he was keeping them in the dirt but a skip could put them way up over your head. The sound in this scenario arrives first. Just thinkin......
    See post #6 - no backstop on the property
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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Your neighbor shoots across the road? Is he located within a city or town? Does the county restrict this by local ordinance?
    Oh, believe me, if it can be outlawed by this county (yes, county), I'm sure they already have. Some on this board know I am the same guy who was investigated and cited by the county for using a camper/trailer on my own farm, for spending an occasional night "out" (sleeping) during our local hunting season. I refuse to apply for a $1,350.00 county campground permit, by which I would make my campouts (again, on my own land) legal. They never miss a chance to stick it to freedom--they "default to tyranny" every time.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,,

    Not only is a Blackpowder gun,,,SUB sonic,, so the sound is heard before the bullet passes,,,
    BUT a rickochied shot will be heard even SOONER than the bullit can come to you!!!
    See this vid of a rickochied 50 cal round!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc
    the shot is heard very well before the return and hit!!!!

    Your neighbor could have HIT a rock in his field that rickochied toward your location,,,
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 11-20-2012 at 09:06 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Not only is a Blackpowder gun,,,SUB sonic,,
    Your chronograph must be broken.

    Speed of sound=1116 FPS

    120 grains of 2F with a 315 gr .490 Conical =1345 FPS
    ...................................485 gr =1234
    140 grains of 2F ..........315gr =1471
    ...................................485gr =1345

    They are even faster with Sabots, just a poorer Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density....but you get the idea.

    But the neighbor could also be using lighter loads.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-20-2012 at 09:24 AM.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Your chronograph must be broken.

    Speed of sound=1116 FPS

    120 grains of 2F with a 315 gr .490 Conical =1345 FPS
    ...................................485 gr =1234
    140 grains of 2F ..........315gr =1471
    ...................................485gr =1345

    They are even faster with Sabots, just a poorer Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density....but you get the idea.

    But the neighbor could also be using lighter loads.
    That's also muzzle velocity. By the time the bullet has gone 100yds it'll be sub-sonic, at the 6-800 yds specified in the original post, it's been sub-sonic for quite a while, and well behind the sound...

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdo...ballistics.htm

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  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    That's also muzzle velocity. By the time the bullet has gone 100yds it'll be sub-sonic, at the 6-800 yds specified in the original post, it's been sub-sonic for quite a while, and well behind the sound...

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdo...ballistics.htm

    Roscoe
    That's true Roscoe. Its probably subsonic at 75 yards. I'm juggling the
    Not only is a Blackpowder gun,,,SUB sonic,
    statement.

  24. #24
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Not only is a Blackpowder gun,,,SUB sonic,, so the sound is heard before the bullet passes,,,
    BUT a rickochied shot will be heard even SOONER than the bullit can come to you!!!
    See this vid of a rickochied 50 cal round!!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc
    the shot is heard very well before the return and hit!!!!

    Your neighbor could have HIT a rock in his field that rickochied toward your location,,,
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Your chronograph must be broken.

    Speed of sound=1116 FPS

    120 grains of 2F with a 315 gr .490 Conical =1345 FPS
    ...................................485 gr =1234
    140 grains of 2F ..........315gr =1471
    ...................................485gr =1345

    They are even faster with Sabots, just a poorer Ballistic Coefficient and Sectional Density....but you get the idea.

    But the neighbor could also be using lighter loads.
    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    That's also muzzle velocity. By the time the bullet has gone 100yds it'll be sub-sonic, at the 6-800 yds specified in the original post, it's been sub-sonic for quite a while, and well behind the sound...

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdo...ballistics.htm

    Roscoe
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's true Roscoe. Its probably subsonic at 75 yards. I'm juggling the statement.

    Well,,,, Maybe now you get my point...
    My croniagraph might be broken,,,, but the dear dont know that....
    I load my 45 cal Kentukey rifle lightly,, the dear dont know I do that!
    They hear the shot,,, they wonder,,, what was that?, but dont have time to look up,, Then thay fall down!
    Then I eat them,,, they taste good!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Well,,,, Maybe now you get my point...
    My croniagraph might be broken,,,, but the dear dont know that....
    I load my 45 cal Kentukey rifle lightly,, the dear dont know I do that!
    They hear the shot,,, they wonder,,, what was that?, but dont have time to look up,, Then thay fall down!
    Then I eat them,,, they taste good!!!
    Yep....and you can shoot squirrels with that little thing if the Deer aren't cooperating

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