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Thread: What would you have done?

  1. #1
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    What would you have done?

    So I was on my way to work yesterday and stopped at the 7-11 on LVB and Nellis to buy a monster like I do every day. As I walked out I noticed a tall guy (6'3"ish maybe 200 lbs) walking through the parking lot like he had a purpose but I didn't pay him much mind. As I sat in my car I noticed that there was a lady that was standing about 15 feet in front of my car sort of just standing there. She caught my eye because she had a small dog on a leash, but more so was the same guy I saw a few moments early had suddenly changed directions and was walking toward the back side of the building. As I was watching him the lady approached my car. I was thinking "ah crap this lady's gonna ask me for money" But she kept looking over her shoulder at the guy walking away from her, and making a phone sign with her hand and putting it up to her face. I rolled down my window to hear what she was saying and she told me "You need to call the cops, he's about to beat that girl" At this moment I hear a commotion over where the guy was walking to and see him striking and pushing a very small woman. The lady at my car says "See there he goes, get on the phone!"

    This was the scenario I was faced with on Saturday morning at 0900. I am 5'10" and 178lbs soaking wet. The woman getting beat couldn't have been more that 120lbs and was about 5'6". What would you have done?

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    It would depend on the circumstances. You'd have to be there to know what to do. I don't know what you did, and I don't know if you're second guessing yourself, but it is a lot easier to look at a situation in hindsight when you have plenty of time to think than it is to react when you only have a moment. Whatever you did, you likely did the best you could with the time you had to comprehend what was going on and what little training you may or may not have had regarding such situations. Maybe you'll handle it differently next time after whatever happened this time, but I bet you did what you thought was right at the time.

    Is the man physically assaulting the woman in a way that you fear for her safety? Is it a brutal beating or did the man slap her and push her back? If I felt she was in danger, I would consider intervention. Otherwise, if you get involved in a domestic violence situation you might escalate things and cause yourself to get in physical danger and legal jeopardy, and you might be best off calling the police if things look to be going bad. If it's mild abuse and you intervene, when the cops get there she might turn around and side with him and even lie about what happened even though you were just trying to help her.

    If it was a serious situation where I feared injury or death for the woman, I would tell him to stop on approach and if I thought I was strong enough I would first attempt to use non-lethal force to protect her, but I'm not getting myself killed to save someone and I would want to be sure I was acting on solid legal ground too. I personally weigh 120lbs and I am 5'7". If I saw a 200 lb 6'3" strong man savagely beating a woman I'd probably throw something, or employ some sort of weapon and maybe even draw my gun if I felt that was the only way to stop the woman from being seriously injured or killed. If I had the means to do so and the advantage of being in a situation where the course of action was clear and justified, I would do what I could to prevent someone in my presence from being injured or killed. If I felt I could have stopped someone from being maimed or killed and I sat idly by I would feel terrible.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-18-2012 at 06:38 PM.

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    I'd like to hear more opinions before I spill the beans about what I did. Also to be noted I have nearly zero training in hand to hand.
    Last edited by vegaspassat; 11-18-2012 at 06:39 PM.

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    Call the cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Call the cops.
    Really? So they can shoot the guy, the girl, AND you... and anyone else who may be anywhere in sight?

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    I would have observed the situation while on the phone with Leo. If the man would have left her alone after a quick altercation then I would not intervene. I know some people may think that is wrong but by intervening in another's dispute you are always going to be the easiest target for a legal problem. Remember you do not know the whole situation. If she changes her mind when Leo shows you can become the aggressor if they both say so. If the man would have kept up the assult then I would have intervened while on the phone with Leo stating ( I am on the phone with Leo and you need to stop and back away from the victim ) that way they would hear everything oh yea the phone would be on speaker. If he refused and I felt that It could be extensive harm or worse then I would physically intervene or draw my fire arm as a absolute last reort.

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    What Would I Do?

    Insuffient detail. For example,

    where and how was he striking her?
    was it two or three strikes, or on and on??


    More detail, please.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Really? So they can shoot the guy, the girl, AND you... and anyone else who may be anywhere in sight?
    Yes. Called. And then observed. Would I have stepped in? Maybe. Never really know unless I m in the circumstance.

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    I'd be gone

    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Really? So they can shoot the guy, the girl, AND you... and anyone else who may be anywhere in sight?
    I would be gone before they got there. It is no business of mine. There is no reason for me to be there. My family is not in danger so I would call 911 after leaving, mostly for the reason you list.

    To the OP, I'd suggest upping my vigilance in that type of situation. Anyone that gets my attention in public tends to get a more watchful eye.

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    Glad you shared this. I am assuming you were carrying at the time. It will be interesting to find out what you did do. It is so hard to say what I would have done not knowing the entire layout of the situation. If possible, while staying by my vehicle verbally confronting the guy hoping to distract him in hopes she can get away, while having the cell phone to my ear saying Metro is on the way. I can say this I would have tried something in no way would I have left with the thought of a young lady being physically abused without trying to help in some way. If the situations is elevated by the guy time for Metro just have to be ready if OCing not to become a Metro target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    ...at the 7-11 ... As I sat in my car I noticed that there was a lady ... I rolled down my window to hear what she was saying ...
    You lost me at rolling down your window. With only the details you've provided, I doubt I'd have been there at all by that time. It's not like you were in the middle of nowhere. If she was that worried about something, she could go into the store and have the clerk call the cops.

    I wouldn't have even rolled my window down to find out what she wanted. Call me cruel.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by WantaG18 View Post
    I would be gone before they got there. It is no business of mine. There is no reason for me to be there. My family is not in danger so I would call 911 after leaving, mostly for the reason you list.

    To the OP, I'd suggest upping my vigilance in that type of situation. Anyone that gets my attention in public tends to get a more watchful eye.
    No business of yours after witnessing a crime of assault?

    Cannot remember where however some time last year there was a video of a street person who was being severely beating. The video from a unmanned surveillance system showed some did see the attack guess decided they were not endangered and no one called. As he struggled on the sidewalk some stepped over him, because it was none of their business no one called for medical. He laid on the sidewalk and died.

    If that was your girlfriend, wife, daughter that was being beating up after going to the local convenient store to buy you a beer and you found out a witness decided it was none of their business to try to stop the attack you would be ok with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Insuffient detail. For example,

    where and how was he striking her?
    was it two or three strikes, or on and on??


    More detail, please.
    I tried to give as much detail as possible, I'm sorry guys. It all happened really quick. He pushed her forcefully down onto the ground from a wall she was sitting on and I saw him throw one swing at her face. I was not armed at the time because I was on my way to work and I can't carry in uniform or on base. I jumped out of my car and screamed at the top of my lungs "Hey, what the fk are you doing?!" I can't say if he heard me or not but I grabbed my phone and called LEO. While I was talking to them on the phone I reached in my backseat and grabbed a 1/2 inch ratchet that is about 20 inches long with a swivel head. It was the closest thing I had to a weapon, and a piss poor match for a man that much bigger than me, let alone if he had a knife or a gun. So I threw it back in the back seat after thinking about it. Once I looked up from my car the man was gone and the girl was walking to the front of the store crying. I gave a description to the dispatcher and informed her that the girl was walking to the corner to cross nellis blvd at the cross walk. I know that if I hadn't been busy on the phone I could have easily ran up and struck him while he was beating the girl. I can't help but feel a little guilty and wonder if I should have done things differently.


    Even more to the point, I wonder if I would have reacted differently if I was carrying. And what that says about my mindset regarding carrying a firearm.
    Last edited by vegaspassat; 11-19-2012 at 12:36 AM.

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    From what you said you did the right thing !!!!!! You stopped the violent attack on the girl. You reached for weapon because you knew that you were outmatched by a man almost twice your size and you wanted to be able to defend a attack if need be. If you had ran up and hit him it could have turned bad. Both in a legal stand point and physical. If you had hit him and she said he wasn't hitting her then you just attacked him for no reason. Also what if he was on speed or another drug then chances are the hit wouldn't even affect him but just to make him more aggressive to you and her. You did the best you could in what was the best interest for you and the girl. Remember the ultimate goal is to protect yourself first so you may protect others. If you step in to help another it can leave you voulnerable to where you can not protect any one including yourself. Also it sounds like you are in the service which means you are held to a higher standard then regular citizens. So if you do intervene and it turns bad you can end up worse then most. You did the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    I tried to give as much detail as possible, I'm sorry guys. It all happened really quick. He pushed her forcefully down onto the ground from a wall she was sitting on and I saw him throw one swing at her face. I was not armed at the time because I was on my way to work and I can't carry in uniform or on base. I jumped out of my car and screamed at the top of my lungs "Hey, what the fk are you doing?!" I can't say if he heard me or not but I grabbed my phone and called LEO. While I was talking to them on the phone I reached in my backseat and grabbed a 1/2 inch ratchet that is about 20 inches long with a swivel head. It was the closest thing I had to a weapon, and a piss poor match for a man that much bigger than me, let alone if he had a knife or a gun. So I threw it back in the back seat after thinking about it. Once I looked up from my car the man was gone and the girl was walking to the front of the store crying. I gave a description to the dispatcher and informed her that the girl was walking to the corner to cross nellis blvd at the cross walk. I know that if I hadn't been busy on the phone I could have easily ran up and struck him while he was beating the girl. I can't help but feel a little guilty and wonder if I should have done things differently.


    Even more to the point, I wonder if I would have reacted differently if I was carrying. And what that says about my mindset regarding carrying a firearm.
    OK. Now we're getting somewhere. One swing.

    Closed fist or or open?

    Did he connect? Pull his punch? Was it a feint, or did he actually punch/slap her? How many times? Did he kick her?

    Etc.


    I wouldn't beat myself up too much. Plenty of cops will tell you that the female can turn on you pretty quick. Relationships can be really strange.

    For example, if you intervened while armed, and the woman perceived the police were about to arrest her man--who provides for her and she loves, even despite his abuse--suddenly she can be telling the cop that you threatened her man with the gun or put your hand on it making a threat, while disavowing that he hit her. The cops are going to be less inclined to do anything to him when their star witness is not willing to testify and is going against you. You want to be a bit cautious about these things.


    If he was punching her about the head repeatedly in a rage, which can cause eye-bone fractures, broken jaw, concussion, etc. that's something else.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-19-2012 at 03:33 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    This is actually a good segway to my next problem. I dont have any clue on who i would call if i did have to use my weapon. Does somebody have the name of a good lawyer that i can keep in my phone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    This is actually a good segway to my next problem. I dont have any clue on who i would call if i did have to use my weapon. Does somebody have the name of a good lawyer that i can keep in my phone?
    Segue. You're talking about a two-wheeled personal transport vehicle.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    I tried to give as much detail as possible, I'm sorry guys. It all happened really quick. He pushed her forcefully down onto the ground from a wall she was sitting on and I saw him throw one swing at her face. I was not armed at the time because I was on my way to work and I can't carry in uniform or on base. I jumped out of my car and screamed at the top of my lungs "Hey, what the fk are you doing?!" I can't say if he heard me or not but I grabbed my phone and called LEO. While I was talking to them on the phone I reached in my backseat and grabbed a 1/2 inch ratchet that is about 20 inches long with a swivel head. It was the closest thing I had to a weapon, and a piss poor match for a man that much bigger than me, let alone if he had a knife or a gun. So I threw it back in the back seat after thinking about it. Once I looked up from my car the man was gone and the girl was walking to the front of the store crying. I gave a description to the dispatcher and informed her that the girl was walking to the corner to cross nellis blvd at the cross walk. I know that if I hadn't been busy on the phone I could have easily ran up and struck him while he was beating the girl. I can't help but feel a little guilty and wonder if I should have done things differently.


    Even more to the point, I wonder if I would have reacted differently if I was carrying. And what that says about my mindset regarding carrying a firearm.
    I believe you did as much as you could. Hitting him while we was busy I think would be a bad idea unless you felt you had to good chance to get the best of him when he turned on you. Sounds by the size and weight difference no chance of you getting the better of him.

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    What would you have done?

    I came upon a domestic in the middle of the road around 2am. My brother and I was on our way home from a trip to Cali. Unarmed
    Just beyond my head lights I see someone get pushed to the ground. As we approached she was screaming for help. I stopped my pickup in the middle of the road. I called the police, while she sat in the road and he stood over her.
    I was sure we were gonna have to fight this guy. But it was two of us. I think that played a role in the fact that he didn't say or do anything the whole time we were there.
    4 mins after the 911 call a sheriff pulls up wanting to know what we were doing in the road. Before i could explain the local police that got the call shows up.
    I'm glad it didn't go any different. He didn't touch her (while we were there) and we didn't have to touch him. Lol

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    Thumbs up

    I normally just read and don't post on here but I thought there is one point to mention.

    Sometimes the person that you believe is the victim actually turns out to be the assailant. By you not seeing this whole situation play out and by not knowing the credibility of any of the people involved the only reasonable choice of action I see is to call LE and be a good witness and let them sort it all out when they get there.

    If I am going to put my neck on the line fore someone else it is going to have to be very clear what is going on. In this situation I would have called LE and stayed in my car. I would have yelled to them that cops would be coming possibly honked the horn or anything to get his focus off of beating her. If he came toward me I would try to distance my self from him so I don't get caught in the mess.

    I would rather be second guessing my actions at home in front of a computer rather than in a jail cell because I got involved in something I should not have.

    All seems to have turned out well in this instance no one was badly hurt and you probably stopped the assault with your actions while not getting caught up in the mess.

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    I was "assaulted" by my parent, as a child in public approx 12 yrs. old. A Do gooder called the Authority's. (thinking it was the right thing to do I am sure) Who in turn called in the social workers. I do not recall but my guess is the Do gooder spent less than a half hour giving a statement, and then went on about his/her life without a worry. I never went home again. I went to someone else s home every day after school, I was moved at an average of once a month, often changing schools each time, making education next to impossible. I was continually beat (much more severely) By the older foster kids, than I ever was at home. Introduced to drugs and alcohol "often by the foster parents" I was basically groomed for a life in the prison system. The Do gooder did not help me, He/She did not save me from anything. Instead he/she set my life backwards. I harbor no resentment against the do gooder who sicked the "armed Agents" on my family, I just vow not to be so ignorant to think I can jump in and "own" someone else s life While I still am learning about my own. In the end, my thoughts are this: If you are actually Saving someones life, that is one thing, But to interfere for a moment by "Calling in the authority's" is just to easy to be the answer for such a complex problem.

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    To the OP: From the sounds of it, it seems as if you did what you could and probably scared the guy off, and it also sounds like the woman was not too badly hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I was "assaulted" by my parent, as a child in public approx 12 yrs. old. A Do gooder called the Authority's. (thinking it was the right thing to do I am sure) Who in turn called in the social workers. I do not recall but my guess is the Do gooder spent less than a half hour giving a statement, and then went on about his/her life without a worry. I never went home again. I went to someone else s home every day after school, I was moved at an average of once a month, often changing schools each time, making education next to impossible. I was continually beat (much more severely) By the older foster kids, than I ever was at home. Introduced to drugs and alcohol "often by the foster parents" I was basically groomed for a life in the prison system. The Do gooder did not help me, He/She did not save me from anything. Instead he/she set my life backwards. I harbor no resentment against the do gooder who sicked the "armed Agents" on my family, I just vow not to be so ignorant to think I can jump in and "own" someone else s life While I still am learning about my own. In the end, my thoughts are this: If you are actually Saving someones life, that is one thing, But to interfere for a moment by "Calling in the authority's" is just to easy to be the answer for such a complex problem.
    Very thought provoking post.

    Unfortunately, the government is basically like dealing with a machine that spits out preprogrammed responses rather than empowering a thinking person to make an appropriate reaction based upon the circumstances to achieve improved long term results.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    I tried to give as much detail as possible, I'm sorry guys. It all happened really quick. He pushed her forcefully down onto the ground from a wall she was sitting on and I saw him throw one swing at her face. I was not armed at the time because I was on my way to work and I can't carry in uniform or on base. I jumped out of my car and screamed at the top of my lungs "Hey, what the fk are you doing?!" I can't say if he heard me or not but I grabbed my phone and called LEO. While I was talking to them on the phone I reached in my backseat and grabbed a 1/2 inch ratchet that is about 20 inches long with a swivel head. It was the closest thing I had to a weapon, and a piss poor match for a man that much bigger than me, let alone if he had a knife or a gun. So I threw it back in the back seat after thinking about it. Once I looked up from my car the man was gone and the girl was walking to the front of the store crying. I gave a description to the dispatcher and informed her that the girl was walking to the corner to cross nellis blvd at the cross walk. I know that if I hadn't been busy on the phone I could have easily ran up and struck him while he was beating the girl. I can't help but feel a little guilty and wonder if I should have done things differently.


    Even more to the point, I wonder if I would have reacted differently if I was carrying. And what that says about my mindset regarding carrying a firearm.
    You did it correctly. My brother, former LEO, said he would rather go unarmed in to a Hells Angel bar than respond to a DVB (Domestic Violence Battery) dispute. It never goes well.

    In Nevada, assault is raising your fist in a threatening manner (as an example) and battery is completing the action by physically striking them (as an example) and is either a misdemeanor or felony,

    That ALL changes (IN NEVADA) if they are "life partners" or what ever the hell we are calling it now a days or related and then they it becomes a Domestic Violence situation.

    Unless it is to protect someone's life, it is usually best to call the LEOs, explain what is going on and you think that someone MAY be in danger and you need their assistance and standby to be an excellent witness.

    Me personally, I have a very LOW tolerance for woman beaters and would prefer to dismiss them from this world with "extreme prejudice".

    Oh, and size doesn't matter. My father was 5'8" and a 12% body fat steelworker that feared NO man and routinely put my aunt's 6' husband in the horizontally position until she finally divorced him. My mother though could make him quiet though with that loving stare that could burn through diamonds when it was needed (LOL)


    NAVYBLUE

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    Also to be noted I have nearly zero training in hand to hand.
    qft

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE View Post
    You did it correctly. My brother, former LEO, said he would rather go unarmed in to a Hells Angel bar than respond to a DVB (Domestic Violence Battery) dispute. It never goes well.

    In Nevada, assault is raising your fist in a threatening manner (as an example) and battery is completing the action by physically striking them (as an example) and is either a misdemeanor or felony,

    That ALL changes (IN NEVADA) if they are "life partners" or what ever the hell we are calling it now a days or related and then they it becomes a Domestic Violence situation.

    Unless it is to protect someone's life, it is usually best to call the LEOs, explain what is going on and you think that someone MAY be in danger and you need their assistance and standby to be an excellent witness.

    Me personally, I have a very LOW tolerance for woman beaters and would prefer to dismiss them from this world with "extreme prejudice".

    Oh, and size doesn't matter. My father was 5'8" and a 12% body fat steelworker that feared NO man and routinely put my aunt's 6' husband in the horizontally position until she finally divorced him. My mother though could make him quiet though with that loving stare that could burn through diamonds when it was needed (LOL)


    NAVYBLUE

    Probably the same change everywhere. Now, a domestic violence (DV) conviction or plea is a bar to firearms rights, so the local cops pay attention to it. It seems reasonable on the surface. But, with government, little is reasonable. I've come across reports of husbands admitting to DV as part of divorce settlements just to get through the process, not realizing the full significance (not told by their attorneys is more like it). And, women making false DV accusations in child custody cases to bolster their case.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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