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Thread: Harassed By Cops & Walmart For CCW

  1. #1
    Regular Member PBY's Avatar
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    Harassed By Cops & Walmart For CCW

    Has anyone had the wonderful experience of being harassed and lied to by cops because you dared to avail yourself of your god given rights?

    The assistant manager of Walmart in Delray Beach called the cops on me because I was concealed carrying and he thought I had to answer his questions of whether I was carrying and if I had a CCW. I told him I was not breaking any laws and Walmart policy was to respect local laws. I was buying ammo, so that's why he saw I had a firearm.

    I was then accosted by three cops in the parking lot while in my car. The first asked for ID, I asked him for what cause, he said he could ask for it, I told him he could ask but I had no obligation to give it to him.

    Next cop asks if I have a weapon as soon as I roll down the passenger window. Claims it is the law that I must advise a cop upon contact that I am armed. Proceeds to make me get out of the car, takes my weapon and frisks me. Tells me that printing is illegal, which it is not according to 790.053.

    They refused to tell me what the employee in Walmart claimed. Just said I matched a description. Of course I did. It was a description of me. Duh! But what did I do that the police cared and came out? Police dispatch did not bother to ask if I was doing anything that would appear illegal or threatening? That's like me calling the cops and telling them that there is a man driving a car and they need to stop him to check if he has a license.

    Forced me to give them ID and waited half an hour to get it back and go. I asked what was taking so long and they said it was a busy night. Really? If it's so busy why are you harassing a 43 year old white male driving a brand new Lexus? Perhaps you have real crime to stop.

    Is it a wonder that cops are as popular as CONgress?
    Last edited by PBY; 11-19-2012 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Updated per user suggestions with apologies for language.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Wlcome to OCDO. How did you find this place and what are you planning to do here besides rant about Wal-Mart?

    Did you read in the stuff newbies are encouraged to read that this is a family-oriented place and that name-calling in general is not deemed appropriate?

    FYI, we are what is known as "self-moderating" and only call in the official folks when things get totally out of hand. The moderators are nice folks but are generally hated as moderators for being either too heavy-handed or letting too much get by.

    Did you do a search here for Wal-Mart? (I know the basic search function is not the best, but eventually folks figure out "advanced search" is not just something to keep the page from being totally glaring white space.) There must be a jillion and a half threads (not posts but threads) about Wal-Mart and how folks have sucessfully dealt with the few "associates" and management types who have gone against corporate policy.

    Hope that you do stick around - wwe can use all the folks on "our" side we can get. Even if we do prefer that they not sink to the tactics of the anti-gun rights crowd.

    stay safe.
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Scanned words rang my buzzer - a review of the rules is always in order.

    Welcome to OCDO PBY - good people here willing to help you where they can.

    When you have a problem as you allege, it is good to follow through with at least a formal complaint. That is where having a digital recorder and knowing the officers names pays off. Only in taking proper action will these negative encounters continue to diminish - they are already the exception most places.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBY View Post
    Has anyone had the wonderful experience of being harassed and lied to by cops because you dared to avail yourself of your god given rights?

    The scumbag assistant manager of Walmart in Delray Beach called the cops on me because I was concealed carrying and he thought I had to answer his questions of whether I was carrying and if I had a CCW. I told him I was not breaking any laws and Walmart policy was to respect local laws. I was buying ammo, so that's why he saw I had a firearm.

    I was then accosted by three cops in the parking lot while in my car. The first asked for ID, I asked him for what cause, he said he could ask for it, I told him he could ask but I had no obligation to give it to him.

    Next cop, juiced up steroid looking clown, asks if I have a weapon as soon as I roll down the passenger window. Claims it is the law that I must advise a cop upon contact that I am armed. Proceeds to make me get out of the car, takes my weapon and frisks me. Tells me that printing is illegal, which it is not according to 790.053. Not sure if he intentionally wanted to violate my rights or if his GED made him ignorant of the law.

    They refused to tell me what the ****** in Walmart claimed. Just said I matched a description. Of course I did. It was a description of me. Duh! But what did I do that the police cared and came out? Police dispatch did not bother to ask if I was doing anything that would appear illegal or threatening? That's like me calling the cops and telling them that there is a man driving a car and they need to stop him to check if he has a license.

    Forced me to give them ID and waited half an hour to get it back and go. Yes, they kidnapped me in the legal sense. I asked what was taking so long and they said it was a busy night. Really? If it's so busy why are you harassing a 43 year old white male driving a brand new Lexus? Perhaps you have real crime to stop. Not really. We all know cops are useless at actually stopping real crime when it is not a traffic violation. Cops catch criminals after they have run roughshod over innocent civilians.

    Is it a wonder that cops are as popular as CONgress?
    QFT


    Welcome to OCDO!

    Sorry this happened to you.

    Not to be a jerk or anything, but I can't help but wonder why you would post a negative CC experience on a forum devoted to open carry.

    Do you plan to do anything about the incident? Again, no offense. Its just that we get what seems to me a large percentage of folks who stop at bellyaching and do nothing more. So, I've learned not to get too involved with legal analysis and discussion until I find out whether the writer is just looking to get something off his chest, or is looking for options.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Scanned words rang my buzzer - a review of the rules is always in order.

    Welcome to OCDO PBY - good people here willing to help you where they can.

    When you have a problem as you allege, it is good to follow through with at least a formal complaint. That is where having a digital recorder and knowing the officers names pays off. Only in taking proper action will these negative encounters continue to diminish - they are already the exception most places.
    I noticed he said "congress", but you let that one slip by.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus
    "Well.... If you take my hat. Decide to wear my hat. Its in your possession ."

    "I call popo say "he has my hat i left it at his house". They go talk to you. You say its yours. Sounds like a civil court matter."

    "Now I instead say he robbed me... Well popo done go and cuff you up I keep hat or it goes to evidence...you go to court I testify you done did rob me. You now have to prove you didn't...."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I noticed he said "congress", but you let that one slip by.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

  7. #7
    Regular Member PBY's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replies

    First, I apologize for the harsh language and have edited the post. Sorry. I have quite the ability to rant.

    I found the site again by searching the web about the situation. I originally found this site when I was going to Vegas and wanted to research how they treat Nevada CCWs. I recall being floored by some of the stories I read.

    The reason for my post was that I am trying to figure out what I should do, what my course of action be. I am not just complaining, I want to do what is right. I believe strongly that I cannot just forget about this for several reasons. First, I carry, I don't want this or something worse to happen to me again. Second, I believe in our rights. Third, if there is a course of action that should be taken, then the more of us who do it, the stronger our rights become. If you guys have worked to defend my rights then I am obligated to stand with you and return the consideration.

    I live in Reno but visit family in Florida for long stretches of time. I OC around Reno from time to time, but even when I CC I never have to worry if my firearm is fully concealed. My original foray to this site is what made me start OC every once in a while. I think the Florida OC restriction is inane.

    I will search the board for the Wal-Mart topics this evening and tomorrow, I actually did not do that since I figured this happens in all types of stores. For me the more serious issue is if the police around here are ignorant of the law or intentionally harassing me in an effort to violate my civil rights. I don't think that's a proper way to live, so it needs to be corrected. We're not criminals and should never be treated as such by our public servants.

    As for the Wal-Mart guy, he took issue with me personally. He was not worried in the least about me breaking the law. He watched me pay for $200 worth of stuff. He wanted to harm me intentionally for daring not to answer his questions.

  8. #8
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    A few options:

    A letter of complaint to WalMart for the harassment by the employee. Its been a while, but I believe WalMart managers are allowed to make policy like no ammo sales to an armed person. Now, its one thing for an employee to ask when he sees a bulge or print, its something else for him to get antagonistic and vindictively sic the cops on you. If I wrote a complaint, I would be sure to focus on the antagonism and vindictiveness. The only reason the gun would be included in my narrative is because it just happened to be present, but this employee could just as easily have been hostile and vindictive over in the camera aisle about about memory cards or something. Treat it more as an alert that one of their employees was way out of line, rather than complaining and griping about your dignity, etc. Be sure to thank them for their policy on following the laws of the state the store is located in.

    Then, a formal complaint to the cops. With any luck, the cop complaint will trigger an internal affairs investigation that has IA back at the store interviewing the employee. This alone might make the employee think twice about being vindictive again. At a minimum you have the cops' false information as points of complaint. Then, if you feel like it, and if there was a non-consensual involuntary character to the police encounter, you can assert insufficient justification for the seizure of your person. We don't really know whether there was or wasn't sufficient justification for a temporary seizure of your person, since we don't know what the employee told the cops during his phone call. But, let the police justify the seizure if there was one. No sense in you having to do a buncha research and obtain recordings and so forth (unless you actually want to). You can just make the assertion and force them to justify it.*



    *I think this might be how it works at a suppression hearing, too. If a search or seizure is challenged, I think it is the police who have to justify the seizure by providing evidence of all the relevant points. I don't believe the defense has to prove how the seizure was not justified. I could be wrong, though.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-19-2012 at 09:43 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBY View Post
    First, I apologize for the harsh language and have edited the post. Sorry. I have quite the ability to rant.

    I found the site again by searching the web about the situation. I originally found this site when I was going to Vegas and wanted to research how they treat Nevada CCWs. I recall being floored by some of the stories I read.

    The reason for my post was that I am trying to figure out what I should do, what my course of action be. I am not just complaining, I want to do what is right. I believe strongly that I cannot just forget about this for several reasons. First, I carry, I don't want this or something worse to happen to me again. Second, I believe in our rights. Third, if there is a course of action that should be taken, then the more of us who do it, the stronger our rights become. If you guys have worked to defend my rights then I am obligated to stand with you and return the consideration.

    I live in Reno but visit family in Florida for long stretches of time. I OC around Reno from time to time, but even when I CC I never have to worry if my firearm is fully concealed. My original foray to this site is what made me start OC every once in a while. I think the Florida OC restriction is inane.

    I will search the board for the Wal-Mart topics this evening and tomorrow, I actually did not do that since I figured this happens in all types of stores. For me the more serious issue is if the police around here are ignorant of the law or intentionally harassing me in an effort to violate my civil rights. I don't think that's a proper way to live, so it needs to be corrected. We're not criminals and should never be treated as such by our public servants.

    As for the Wal-Mart guy, he took issue with me personally. He was not worried in the least about me breaking the law. He watched me pay for $200 worth of stuff. He wanted to harm me intentionally for daring not to answer his questions.
    A couple of questions...
    I was buying ammo, so that's why he saw I had a firearm.
    How did the Walmart employee see your firearm? Was it concealed properly?


    I live in Reno but visit family in Florida for long stretches of time.
    What state is your permit from?

  10. #10
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Carrying a firearm is a privilege in Florida. Right or wrong, you will be presumed guilty in practice, especially in south florida. Only law enforcement officers can open carry. Their primary role is to fleece and control the public. Having a monopoly on the visible means of force is very important to the ruling class. While printing is not illegal, it makes the sheeple scared and they'll call their protectors on you, especially in south florida.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member PBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    A couple of questions...

    How did the Walmart employee see your firearm? Was it concealed properly?
    I was CCing and was a foot in front of the guy while buying ammo, he looked down. Of course it was concealed properly as defined by the law. I am not a stickler for concealment in terms of perfection, I have no problem is someone sees a bulge on my hip or if I print a bit while moving. I want access to my firearm if I ever have to use it. An ankle holster would work great as concealment, but poorly for defense purposes. Furthermore, who notices a weapon on a hip? Everyone carries phones and glasses in leather pouches there now.

    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    What state is your permit from?
    Permits in FL, NV and UT.

  12. #12
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBY View Post
    I was CCing and was a foot in front of the guy while buying ammo, he looked down. Of course it was concealed properly as defined by the law. I am not a stickler for concealment in terms of perfection, I have no problem is someone sees a bulge on my hip or if I print a bit while moving. I want access to my firearm if I ever have to use it. An ankle holster would work great as concealment, but poorly for defense purposes. Furthermore, who notices a weapon on a hip? Everyone carries phones and glasses in leather pouches there now.



    Permits in FL, NV and UT.
    I do, it is situational awareness, just like defensive driving. But just because they have a concealed weapon does not make them a bad guy, or make them a good guy. It is just common sense to be aware. Are they making guns small as a cell phone these days?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 11-20-2012 at 11:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus
    "Well.... If you take my hat. Decide to wear my hat. Its in your possession ."

    "I call popo say "he has my hat i left it at his house". They go talk to you. You say its yours. Sounds like a civil court matter."

    "Now I instead say he robbed me... Well popo done go and cuff you up I keep hat or it goes to evidence...you go to court I testify you done did rob me. You now have to prove you didn't...."

  13. #13
    Regular Member PBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Carrying a firearm is a privilege in Florida. Right or wrong, you will be presumed guilty in practice, especially in south florida. Only law enforcement officers can open carry. Their primary role is to fleece and control the public. Having a monopoly on the visible means of force is very important to the ruling class. While printing is not illegal, it makes the sheeple scared and they'll call their protectors on you, especially in south florida.
    What does it say about a man who decides to assign the duty of protecting himself and his family to other people? Worst of all, these other people have made it clear that their salary and benefits (their union) come before their duty to their employers (the citizens) and they have no duty to protect you, just to enforce law/catch perps after the fact. What a sad state of affairs.

    I think your last sentence gets to the heart of that matter and pushes the CC vs. OC issue. I can't OC, but if I can print and show here and there in the ordinary course of my day, then I suggest we all do it. The sheeple better get used to our existence. If the sheeple are fine being statistics that's ok, but we are not and when they call the cops the caller needs to be advised of the law. The more it happens the more the cops learn. Eventually they have no claim to any qualified immunity defense against a personal suit.

    Government loves their monopoly on force and the sheeple are terrible. I have a friend who does not want me to be around him when armed but has no problem if a cop has a firearm. I asked him who he trusts more with a firearm considering I practice continually and go through thousands of rounds yearly with trained professionals. He understood my point, but logic still will not rule.

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    Regular Member PBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I do, it is situational awareness, just like defensive driving. But just because they have a concealed weapon does not make them a bad guy, or make them a good guy. It is just common sense to be aware. Are they making guns small as a cell phone these days?
    WW, don't you prove my point. The only guy who notices is someone like you, and I doubt you would say a word. I notice as well.

    Regular folk who don't carry or have firearms will instinctively think it's something they associate with on a regular basis in that location of the body. It's human nature. If I have a golf bag that has head covers on all the clubs, do you assume they are clubs in the bags or long rifles?

    I just bought a Ruger LCP, 12 ounces fully loaded. Pretty small. Although given the latest products being sold the question should be are they making cell phones as big as firearms.

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I do, it is situational awareness, just like defensive driving. But just because they have a concealed weapon does not make them a bad guy, or make them a good guy. It is just common sense to be aware. Are they making guns small as a cell phone these days?
    Situational awareness, who is carrying, gets better with practice.

    Have seen a single shot .45 ACP the size of a pack of cigarettes - shot it too............it hurted.

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  16. #16
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Interesting that the manager thought you enough of a threat to call law enforcement, yet sold you the ammo anyway. I believe he'll have a hard time explaining that to the corporate shirts at Wal-Mart HQ. If I were his regional manager, he'd be looking for a new job based on demonstrated poor judgment.
    Rich
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Interesting that the manager thought you enough of a threat to call law enforcement, yet sold you the ammo anyway. I believe he'll have a hard time explaining that to the corporate shirts at Wal-Mart HQ. If I were his regional manager, he'd be looking for a new job based on demonstrated poor judgment.
    I would be inclined to give him one or two chances. The question is whether he's already had those one or two chances with this being the third. Thus, I would report it in order to give the employer a chance to make that determination.

    When cops screw up with an OCer, we sometimes hear the OCer himself say he doesn't want to get the cop in trouble. Similar situation. The cop may already be a trouble-maker and his supervisor may be waiting for that "one more complaint" to move him to a desk job or out. Also, a good cop supervisor is going to want to know whether his troops are acting correctly. Same in private business.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-20-2012 at 02:14 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

  18. #18
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBY View Post
    What does it say about a man who decides to assign the duty of protecting himself and his family to other people? Worst of all, these other people have made it clear that their salary and benefits (their union) come before their duty to their employers (the citizens) and they have no duty to protect you, just to enforce law/catch perps after the fact. What a sad state of affairs.

    I think your last sentence gets to the heart of that matter and pushes the CC vs. OC issue. I can't OC, but if I can print and show here and there in the ordinary course of my day, then I suggest we all do it. The sheeple better get used to our existence. If the sheeple are fine being statistics that's ok, but we are not and when they call the cops the caller needs to be advised of the law. The more it happens the more the cops learn. Eventually they have no claim to any qualified immunity defense against a personal suit.

    Government loves their monopoly on force and the sheeple are terrible. I have a friend who does not want me to be around him when armed but has no problem if a cop has a firearm. I asked him who he trusts more with a firearm considering I practice continually and go through thousands of rounds yearly with trained professionals. He understood my point, but logic still will not rule.

    Cops are held to a lower standard than you. We're taught in government schools that government is God walking on the earth. Could you imagine what would have happened if you were the shooter in this video instead of the uniformed sow?

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a0b_1353112197

    You'd guilty of a hate crime and would be in jail for manslaugher, maybe even murder. George Zimmerman is in deep water for less. This barely made local news.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by PBY
    Has anyone had the wonderful experience of being harassed and lied to by cops because you dared to avail yourself of your god given rights?
    Yep. Many people here.
    Some areas of the country are worse than others, some officers :cough: Harless :cough: are worse than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBY
    The assistant manager of Walmart in Delray Beach called the cops on me because I was concealed carrying and he thought I had to answer his questions of whether I was carrying and if I had a CCW.
    As others have suggested, make a complaint to WM corporate.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBY
    Tells me that printing is illegal, which it is not according to 790.053.
    No law can make something legal. Laws only make things illegal, and sometimes provide exceptions. (A carry license is an exception to ccw.)
    And this is the first I've heard anyone claim that printing in FL is not illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by PBY
    calling the cops and telling them that there is a man driving a car and they need to stop him to check if he has a license.
    Which they know they can't do, thanks to Delaware v. Prouse.
    We need a Prouse for LACs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen
    I can't help but wonder why you would post a negative CC experience on a forum devoted to open carry.
    Wondered about that myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen
    a good cop supervisor is going to want to know whether his troops are acting correctly. Same in private business.
    I've often surprised managers (of all sorts, including LEO) by pointing out when their employee does something particularly good.
    One time I spoke to a restaurant manager about the terrific job our waitress had done with us & our meal, only to find this was the server's first day. We told the manager she needed a raise & definitely keep her on.
    OTOH, a pharmacy manager was not amused to hear how his staff had kept me sitting in the drive-through for over 30min & put my order to the bottom of the stack every time they asked me something about it. I got the meds free that day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    And this is the first I've heard anyone claim that printing in FL is not illegal.
    Printing is NOT illegal in Florida. Both statute and case law support this statement.
    Rich
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  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Wlcome to OCDO. How did you find this place and what are you planning to do here besides rant about Wal-Mart?
    You're not any good at making friends, are you? If you read his post you'd see that most of his rant was towards law enforcement, not just walmart.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skidmark

    Wlcome to OCDO. How did you find this place and what are you planning to do here besides rant about Wal-Mart?
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    You're not any good at making friends, are you? If you read his post you'd see that most of his rant was towards law enforcement, not just walmart.
    Pot, meet kettle.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #23
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    Never had a problem at a Walmart

    We have a few 24 hour WalMart's as well as "normal". I have both open carried & concealed and have never had a problem. I have noticed that I receive a lot of attention from the staff at times, but no one has ever said a word to me. I have open carried at Bed, Bath & Beyond, Safeway, Giant, Shopper's Food Warehouse, as well as my MD's offices. Lowe's & Home Depot also have never been a problem.
    At Office Depot the workers all have communication's devices. I smile when I hear the "man with a gun" on aisle 2, but get assisted when I have questions. Northern VA has a bad rap for "open carry", but in over 3 yrs of carrying daily, I have not been asked to leave.
    I live in Fairfax County and have walked by police cars with my gun clearly visible & have never been stopped.
    Recently, I saw a sign at a 7-11 that said "firearms not allowed", but I entered, bought what I wanted and left.
    One's use of the word, "God", is his own belief, not necessarily my own. As long as that person and I don't bring up the subject, I feel that he/she/they have the right to say or do what they want freely and not be chastised for expressing their personal opinions. I don't have to agree, and I don't have to listen. If I were stopped or questioned by the police, I would say "nothing", and let an attorney be my voice. Prior to purchasing a gun, I had been robbed/mugged 3 times: once by someone with a gun, and two other times one or more with knives.

  24. #24
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    A statistic I saw yesterday the number of police ratio

    In the US the average is 1 policeperson for every 400 people. I admire the majority of the police, and recognize the difficulties they have daily. But you & I face difficulties daily. If I'm ever in a position where I have to pull my weapon, I would. But thankfully, I haven't had to face that. But I try to stay constantly vigilant because my neighborhood is now full of druggies, homeless, and people who come out when you least expect them (i.e., parking lots, garages, or even on the street. So i have this habit of moving my hand towards my weapon. I practice several times weekly, and have taken many classes. In today's world schools, movie theaters, places of work aren't exactly safe. So, I and I know of so many others walk out our doors knowledgeable about what could happen, and hope it doesn't.

  25. #25
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donster123 View Post
    In the US the average is 1 policeperson for every 400 people. I admire the majority of the police, and recognize the difficulties they have daily. But you & I face difficulties daily. If I'm ever in a position where I have to pull my weapon, I would. But thankfully, I haven't had to face that. But I try to stay constantly vigilant because my neighborhood is now full of druggies, homeless, and people who come out when you least expect them (i.e., parking lots, garages, or even on the street. So i have this habit of moving my hand towards my weapon. I practice several times weekly, and have taken many classes. In today's world schools, movie theaters, places of work aren't exactly safe. So, I and I know of so many others walk out our doors knowledgeable about what could happen, and hope it doesn't.
    Be very careful of moving your hand towards your gun. That could very well be intimidating to someone, therefore considered brandishing.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-282.HTM
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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