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Harassed By Cops & Walmart For CCW

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
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Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Wlcome to OCDO. How did you find this place and what are you planning to do here besides rant about Wal-Mart?
You're not any good at making friends, are you? If you read his post you'd see that most of his rant was towards law enforcement, not just walmart.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by skidmark

Wlcome to OCDO. How did you find this place and what are you planning to do here besides rant about Wal-Mart?
You're not any good at making friends, are you? If you read his post you'd see that most of his rant was towards law enforcement, not just walmart.

Pot, meet kettle.
 

donster123

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
Never had a problem at a Walmart

We have a few 24 hour WalMart's as well as "normal". I have both open carried & concealed and have never had a problem. I have noticed that I receive a lot of attention from the staff at times, but no one has ever said a word to me. I have open carried at Bed, Bath & Beyond, Safeway, Giant, Shopper's Food Warehouse, as well as my MD's offices. Lowe's & Home Depot also have never been a problem.
At Office Depot the workers all have communication's devices. I smile when I hear the "man with a gun" on aisle 2, but get assisted when I have questions. Northern VA has a bad rap for "open carry", but in over 3 yrs of carrying daily, I have not been asked to leave.
I live in Fairfax County and have walked by police cars with my gun clearly visible & have never been stopped.
Recently, I saw a sign at a 7-11 that said "firearms not allowed", but I entered, bought what I wanted and left.
One's use of the word, "God", is his own belief, not necessarily my own. As long as that person and I don't bring up the subject, I feel that he/she/they have the right to say or do what they want freely and not be chastised for expressing their personal opinions. I don't have to agree, and I don't have to listen. If I were stopped or questioned by the police, I would say "nothing", and let an attorney be my voice. Prior to purchasing a gun, I had been robbed/mugged 3 times: once by someone with a gun, and two other times one or more with knives.
 

donster123

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
A statistic I saw yesterday the number of police ratio

In the US the average is 1 policeperson for every 400 people. I admire the majority of the police, and recognize the difficulties they have daily. But you & I face difficulties daily. If I'm ever in a position where I have to pull my weapon, I would. But thankfully, I haven't had to face that. But I try to stay constantly vigilant because my neighborhood is now full of druggies, homeless, and people who come out when you least expect them (i.e., parking lots, garages, or even on the street. So i have this habit of moving my hand towards my weapon. I practice several times weekly, and have taken many classes. In today's world schools, movie theaters, places of work aren't exactly safe. So, I and I know of so many others walk out our doors knowledgeable about what could happen, and hope it doesn't.
 

Grapeshot

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In the US the average is 1 policeperson for every 400 people. I admire the majority of the police, and recognize the difficulties they have daily. But you & I face difficulties daily. If I'm ever in a position where I have to pull my weapon, I would. But thankfully, I haven't had to face that. But I try to stay constantly vigilant because my neighborhood is now full of druggies, homeless, and people who come out when you least expect them (i.e., parking lots, garages, or even on the street. So i have this habit of moving my hand towards my weapon. I practice several times weekly, and have taken many classes. In today's world schools, movie theaters, places of work aren't exactly safe. So, I and I know of so many others walk out our doors knowledgeable about what could happen, and hope it doesn't.

Be very careful of moving your hand towards your gun. That could very well be intimidating to someone, therefore considered brandishing.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-282.HTM
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
I do, it is situational awareness, just like defensive driving. But just because they have a concealed weapon does not make them a bad guy, or make them a good guy. It is just common sense to be aware. Are they making guns small as a cell phone these days?

yeah me too bro- i notice guns on a daily basis...it's pretty easy actually
 

PBY

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Reno & Boynton Beach
Update To My Experience

First, thank you all for your comments, they are fantastic and very much appreciated. Below is my update, a little verbose but want to be accurate.

Walmart: I called the corporate offices and have filed a complaint. They said they would send it over to the regional manager. This was earlier in the week and I will wait until next week for a response given the holiday. All said, even with the experience I got an awesome machete that night...Zombie protection.

Police: Epic FAIL! I dropped by the department on Friday and was told that I had to complain to this specific officer's shift supervisor and I should call in the evening the following week. I called the following week and was told that supervisor was off and that I should come back Friday night. I went back last night and had the wonderful experience of dealing with our government personnel first hand. Man, I tell you, the worst service in this country is anything related to the government, for the most part our public servants from top to bottom are just useless, they all behave like they are doing you a favor.

First, this officer had me standing outside the police station for over half an hour waiting for him. The station is closed after 6pm so you have to ring the buzzer. Typical cop behavior, set things up by showing disrespect from the get go, intentionally make me wait to show he has authority over me. He shows up with the look that I'm an annoyance and also has a combat ready detective with him. Does not even waste his time making up an excuse for making me wait or apologize for the delay like any decent human being would. He proceeds to want to speak to me right there at the door, to which I have to request that we find a room to sit down.

We basically had a half hour discussion where I was trying to get him (references to he/him are to the sergeant unless so stated) to tell me anything about their training procedures, their understanding of the carry laws, how they deal with civil rights. Not one thing. He wanted to know what I wanted of him. I told him I don't want this to happen again. I don't want my rights violated. I don't want to be shot by some cop who has no clue about the laws and approaches my car with his weapon drawn, which would have made sense if they were so concerned about me being dangerous. This guy told me that he would have approached me with a drawn weapon, then asked what my issue was since nothing bad happened. Hey dummy, you just told me I was lucky that you were not there with your firearm drawn, what happens next time?

The basic argument that these two guys had was that their main concern is officer safety. They want to get home every night. He forgot to mention that his second concern was his bloated salary and his third concern was keeping his pension he will never get since he does not understand basic math, exponential growth, underfunded pension obligations or 8.1% projected yearly returns (in a 1.4% risk free return environment).

Since officer safety is their primary concern they don't care much about civil rights. I asked how dispatch could send an officer out based on the call they received, that the caller did not state any crime had been committed, the log even stated that the caller asked if I had a CCW and my response was that I did not have to answer him. I explained that the only response to that call is thank you for calling but we have no authority here since no crime has been committed and concealed carry is legal. These guys kept telling me that they have to respond to any call about a firearm and that carrying is not legal, it is only legal if you have a license. He also stated that the public is not used to seeing firearms so they are scared of them. To which I responded that public perception was moot, that it was their duty to thus inform the public of the law when they called with an incorrect complaint. That he was ignoring the law to please the public. His true duty is to protect my rights, not ignore law to please the misinformed.

I then stated that I was going to go outside and start asking old people if they had driver's licenses and if they did not show me their ID I was going to call dispatch and report an illegal driver and that they needed to stop that person and check for a license. The response is that driving a car is different than carrying a weapon, one is presumed to be licensed, the other is illegal unless licensed. And if I did that I would be impersonating an officer. I was nice/smart and did not mention that in order to impersonate him I would need a full frontal lobotomy and six cycles of steroids. Please don't think I am breaking the forum's rules and being abusive. I had a long conversation with this sergeant, when I speak to his intellect I am being fully serious. He was unable to make any cogent arguments outside of his heart felt beliefs. He could not respond to any of my points. He had no basic understanding of the Constitution. It takes less than half an hour to interview a job applicant and figure out they are not bright, this guy failed the basic breath, talk and chew gum test. No one on this forum would hire him to work in their company in any position of merit, unless of course you run the goon squad.

I then asked about the offending officer's lies to me about must inform and printing being illegal. He did not care. His job was to protect the officer. No response for why I would have my firearm taken from me and was frisked, even though once he asked if I had a permit upon showing it clearly no crime had been committed. No response. I read him 790.053 about printing/showing being legal, he said it was too confusing and he could not speak to it. That was probably the most truthful thing he said the entire time. I told him it was 100 words long. I asked if he or his officers were even aware of it. Blank stare.

All roads led to their insistence that they had the authority to do anything so long as they were protecting their own safety. I explained how I personally thought that my Constitutional rights came before their safety, and as unfortunate as that sounded to them, I meant no ill will by it, just a god given thing. It was pretty funny, the detective who stood behind the sergeant the entire time tried to make the usual cop arguments...why didn't you just answer the Walmart guy, what's it matter to you to have the cop disarm you if you are not a threat, why didn't you give the first cop your ID when he asked. I told him I was not a slave or subservient to anyone and that when someone treats me poorly, violates my rights or oversteps their grounds I will stand up for myself, and as much as they are used to passive sheep in the public I was not one of the flock. However, I could tell he understood I was well versed in my rights and that there is definitely an inherent issue in being a cop if you want your safety to be paramount versus the public's rights. I would guess he was not a statist thug, just trying to do a difficult job. He was wrong, but gets a thumbs up for being a decent human being, he even seemed a little uncomfortable with the situation. Almost from the start I could tell he was not too thrilled to act as the enforcer/intimidator for his boss. Although when at one point the detective said disarming me was for their protection, I pointed to his weapon and told him how come he did not disarm himself in my presence for my protection. He said he was licensed. I said so was I, and I train more than he does.

I continued to ask him about my Constitutional rights and the oath he and his officers took to uphold the Constitution. He continued to respond that all that he cared about was getting home safe every night. Bottom line was that this man refused to tell me one thing about their training or procedures regarding firearms carrying. He said if I wanted to know legal stuff I had to call the police attorney. I was not given a form to file, the sergeant refused to give me his name and he was not wearing a badge. In the end he took offense when I told him that Germans were ecstatic in 1933 because the streets were safer under Hitler. He continued with his insistence on his safety and getting home at night, to which my final comment was that if he was so concerned about his safety then perhaps he should get another job.

So I'm being exact about this because I really had no aspirations about getting anywhere with the police. I really wanted to draw out a conversation to get a feeling of where the department stood on the general issue of CCW and OC (I made several references to my belief that it should be fully legal to OC and that I do it when home). If any of you think I took the wrong tact, please understand that it was apparent to me within two or three minutes that the sergeant was going to do nothing and he did not care.

My bottom line assessment is that the sergeant personally believes that Americans legally carrying is a safety risk to him and his fellow pen mates. He stated that he did not care about the law as passed by the legislature, that carrying is illegal until you prove that you have the right to carry. He thought these procedures were the proper way to treat law abiding citizens for availing themselves of their rights and he had no problem violating my 2nd and 4th amendment rights so long as it put his safety ahead of my freedom.

Well, next up is the police attorney, and then the city attorney when this first attorney brushes me off. I told them I would not back down, that I was an attorney and would do what was necessary to get this fixed. It's amazing, no matter how clear I made it that all I was asking for was that they obey the law, that I wanted to be safe, I wanted nothing else, it did not matter the least to this sergeant.

I don't know the percentage of good cops out there is versus statist thugs who revel in abusing people and subjugating them, but it's not even close to acceptable anymore. We are well past the tipping point where the percentage is high enough that a large chunk of society just lumps all police officers into one group of civil rights basing thugs. As I like to say to people, the crap I have gotten into with cops, I can't imagine what it would be like to be black as opposed to a 43 year old white male attorney with two Ivy League degrees. I just don't understand how obtuse these guys can be when we are facing a complete breakdown crisis and they are viewed by a large percent of the population as the enemy. Making it worse for them, as an example, the government workers were the best protected financially running up to the Soviet breakdown, but when the collapse happened they were the hardest hit because they believed they would still be protected and had the farthest to fall.

Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I'll update after my next round of the scrimmage. Last of all, here's an interesting article about the people who make our enslavement possible.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-...t-thugs-and-rocks-they-crawl-out-under?page=1
 

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
I was trying to get him to tell me anything about their training procedures, their understanding of the carry laws, how they deal with civil rights
PBY - if you really want the information, you'll have to do a FOIA request. The SGT wasn't going to tell you anything detrimental to him or his employees, even if he did know it. Cops are allowed to lie, with no punishment, even when testifying under oath. (DAMHIK) :mad:

Something like "I am requesting copies of all memos, emails, training bulletins, and applicable policies & procedures, etc., relating to... [topic(s)] which were in force on [date of incident]. Also include copies of all phone calls, radio transmissions, dash cam video/audio, video/audio from officer-worn devices, and any other electronic or paper-based record relating to the incident at [place, date, apx. time or time range]."

Asking for the memos & training bulletins can be very informative...
I once got a memo which had been published by the chief of police (of a nearby suburb) explaining that the state attorney general has said that simple open carry is not a crime, not grounds for a DC charge, & explaining to his officers & calltakers/dispatchers how they should approach the situation.

They had completely ignored (or forgotten) his instructions 15 months later when they did a felony stop & arrest on me for OC.
In effect, they made their own noose & handed me (& my lawyer) the loose end. :rolleyes:

donster123 said:
Recently, I saw a sign at a 7-11 that said "firearms not allowed", but I entered, bought what I wanted and left.
:banghead: :cuss:
In your state, do signs have the force of law?
Even if they don't, why would you give money to a business you knew didn't want you to be there & chose to deny you your right to protect yourself? It's not like there aren't other stop-n-rob stores available.
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
QUOTE]

First - few people are going to read a virtual wall of verbiage - you need to consolidate and make it more readable.

Second - though you claim not to be not attacking LEOs generally, your choice of words and the link say otherwise.
Such is a violation of forum rules and will not be allowed.

There are effective ways to solve such problems as you describe. Better to utilize them than to get into a he said- she said argument which will solve nothing.

Are you claiming to be a "a 43 year old white male attorney with two Ivy League degrees"? If so you might put into practice what you were taught. Jus' sayin'.
 

RetiredOC

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Dec 21, 2009
Messages
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I explained that the only response to that call is thank you for calling but we have no authority here since no crime has been committed and concealed carry is legal. These guys kept telling me that they have to respond to any call about a firearm and that carrying is not legal, it is only legal if you have a license.

This is correct. There is no right to bear arms in the state of Florida. Bearing arms on your person is illegal unless you are granted permission by the state. There are a few exceptions to this, but that's it.

What did you think this was, the land of the free?
Idris-Elba.gif
 

PBY

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Reno & Boynton Beach
Something like "I am requesting copies of all memos, emails, training bulletins, and applicable policies & procedures, etc., relating to... [topic(s)] which were in force on [date of incident]. Also include copies of all phone calls, radio transmissions, dash cam video/audio, video/audio from officer-worn devices, and any other electronic or paper-based record relating to the incident at [place, date, apx. time or time range]."

Asking for the memos & training bulletins can be very informative...

Thank you so much MKEgal. I was going to request a FOIA and what you included helps me tremendously. I'm a little frustrated that this process is such a pain, but I guess it is what it is and I'm up against a system trying to make it as hard as possible and get me to give up. I'm going to send the request to the city attorney as well.
 

Beantownfan321

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
39
Location
Space Coast FL
First, thank you all for your comments, they are fantastic and very much appreciated. Below is my update, a little verbose but want to be accurate.

Walmart: I called the corporate offices and have filed a complaint. They said they would send it over to the regional manager. This was earlier in the week and I will wait until next week for a response given the holiday. All said, even with the experience I got an awesome machete that night...Zombie protection.

{snipped for length}


Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I'll update after my next round of the scrimmage. Last of all, here's an interesting article about the people who make our enslavement possible.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-...t-thugs-and-rocks-they-crawl-out-under?page=1

Ok, here's my suggestions:

(First off, I'm on your side, so be gentle)

1-You should have immediately gone to the local PD and asked to speak to a shift supervisor. If he wasn't in the building, you'd be glad to wait for their superior, or the one above them, or the Chief himself, it didn't matter to you one way or another.

2-If they refused to take a formal complaint, the next stop on the very next business day, was the State's Attorney's office, or right then if it was during NBH.

3-If you haven't already, document everything.

4-Get the names and ID numbers of everyone you talk to. If they refuse, ask to speak to their supervisor. (I'll give you the benefit, as I take people at their word, but if my LT. every found out I refused to give my name and ID number, I'd be on desk duty till the building collapsed from old age. )

5-DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!! If you have a phone recorder app on your phone, advise that you're recording, and USE IT. Keep a log of EVERY TIME you contact someone in regards to this incident.

IMO, you've got a case of AT LEAST failure on the Sgt. to take an official report. This is very much frowned upon, at least where I am.

Lastly, don't give up. You've got my support!!

(Advisement-I am not a lawyer, and anything I say is my opinion, and mine alone)
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP Well, next up is the police attorney, and then the city attorney when this first attorney brushes me off. I told them I would not back down, that I was an attorney and would do what was necessary to get this fixed. It's amazing, no matter how clear I made it that all I was asking for was that they obey the law, that I wanted to be safe, I wanted nothing else, it did not matter the least to this sergeant.

Alright, who told him to go talk to the cops in person?

Never complain in person to the police. Because way too often you get the result you did.

Also, there is no papertrail of the complaint, and the response. Cops love verbal complaints for this reason.

So, now when you talk to the next person up the line, you're really starting out from scratch because the earlier conversation never happened in a manner of speaking.

If you're going to complain, put it in writing. Start a paper trail.
 

hammer6

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Oct 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
Florida
This is correct. There is no right to bear arms in the state of Florida. Bearing arms on your person is illegal unless you are granted permission by the state. There are a few exceptions to this, but that's it.

What did you think this was, the land of the free?
Idris-Elba.gif

i thought case law said otherwise bro
 

PBY

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Reno & Boynton Beach
First - few people are going to read a virtual wall of verbiage - you need to consolidate and make it more readable.

Understood, just wanted to be thorough on what I did and wanted to let those who originally questioned if I was just venting in the wrong place that I was not and am serious about seeing this through.

Second - though you claim not to be not attacking LEOs generally, your choice of words and the link say otherwise.
Such is a violation of forum rules and will not be allowed.

I never claimed such, actually it's to the contrary, I am. This sergeant basically told me that he would happily put me in the position where he could accidentally kill me and violate my civil rights just because he does not want to risk his safety (his job description) and personally does not believe you and I should carry, regardless of the law. In his eyes I am lucky he did not kill me as that was a potential and acceptable outcome. In essence I saw it as a veiled threat that if I continue to carry I should expect that as a potential outcome, he had no intention of stopping the harassment. No offense dude, I got an issue with that. I could care less about this cop and what happens to him ever. This swine is not my countryman, he is not my brother, and I have nothing but contempt for him and his blue brothers because of it. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps you like people saying things like that to you. Unfortunately I'm not ok with a guy paid to protect me telling me that his killing me for exercising my rights is legitimate. It's one thing to lie after the fact, it's another to brazenly state it outright to my face.

My opinion is that we should disbanded all police forces. Cops have much in common with organized crime, or racketeering. Cops are represented by public unions that bribe politicians to steal taxpayer money and give it to the cops. Public unions have no place in our country and all must be disbanded as criminal organization since contracts are not negotiated at arms length, that is, there is no one representing the taxpayer at the table. Unions try to get their members the most money for the least work, or conversely, their role is to supply the taxpayer with the least amount of benefits for the highest price. Taxpayers cannot afford to pay civil servants six figure pensions to work twenty years, no one would ever agree to such an arrangement without coercion. As to the good cops, they are as much to blame for allowing their organization to be run by the most corrupt while not standing up when they see unconstitutional behavior. It is readily apparent that cops care about their jobs security, safety and pension before the Constitution.

The best part about it though is that these cops will never see their pension as they were screwed by the politicians and union leaders. HA!!!

There are effective ways to solve such problems as you describe. Better to utilize them than to get into a he said- she said argument which will solve nothing.

That's why I came here, thanks for the advice. Oh wait, you did not give me any advice. Truth is I did not want to reinvent the wheel, I was hoping that someone had been through this and put together a list of steps to be taken. I've already screwed up the process because I was in the dark, I'm pissed about missing things I should have done. One would think that a forum like this that has these issues come up all the time would already have a link directly to "Harassed by cops for OC or CC? Click Here for help and advice." Seriously, isn't it in each of our best interest to push every incident towards justice so that each and every one of us is safer? Make every city/state/PD waste their money on these things and push them closer to bankruptcy. I'll do the work and when I am done I will wrap it all up and put together a process along with any written documents I created.

Are you claiming to be a "a 43 year old white male attorney with two Ivy League degrees"? If so you might put into practice what you were taught. Jus' sayin'.

I think you missed the point by a wide margin here. It was meant as a comparison to what a minority would go through if this happens to someone with my background. I am a corporate/contract attorney, which means I am intelligent and can write and understand complicated issues. The process we are discussing actually merits very little intellect at all. It is simply a process created by lawyers and politicians to keep everyone else out and favor themselves. Unless you are part of the system you can never avail yourself of the system. Civil procedure is not complicated, it just long and tedious, and you don't have time to learn it unless you get a job with the government or a defense attorney, both willing to pay you a salary while you learn. It is how the system locks 99% of the people out of getting justice. Even when the government/police/corporations have harmed a person it is usually difficult to get a verdict against them simply because of the costs involved. You are not even allowed to play. And that is what the cops are doing to me here, they are trying to get me to give up the issue.
 

PBY

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Messages
13
Location
Reno & Boynton Beach
Alright, who told him to go talk to the cops in person?

Never complain in person to the police. Because way too often you get the result you did.

Also, there is no papertrail of the complaint, and the response. Cops love verbal complaints for this reason.

So, now when you talk to the next person up the line, you're really starting out from scratch because the earlier conversation never happened in a manner of speaking.

If you're going to complain, put it in writing. Start a paper trail.

Citizen, that's why I came here. I needed help and had no clue where to start. As I said I had been to this site before and did not believe the stories I read could ever happen to me (yeah, I know, stupid me). But I strongly believe that I must stay on this, not just for myself but all of us, maybe I help the next guy.

I'm absolutely bummed that so far I have made just amateur errors that I know better than. Not recording the conversation, not asking for a formal complaint instead of assuming the sergeant would file it as a normal operating procedure. I actually had more faith in the cops and thought it was impossible that they would care so little about the actual law. I get the beat cop, but the guy whose in power to stop potential suits against his men and the city? Just naive of me. Disappointed in myself so far.

Paper trail starting tomorrow. Thanks. I'm very frustrated so far but will do better. I am sure my emotions are screwing me up a bit as well.
 

FreeInAZ

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Secret Bunker
Situational awareness, who is carrying, gets better with practice.

Have seen a single shot .45 ACP the size of a pack of cigarettes - shot it too............it hurted.

20fvst4.jpg

SWEET. I have got to get me a deck of those cards! Talk about playing the game with a "loaded" hand. :banana:
 

FreeInAZ

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Citizen, that's why I came here. I needed help and had no clue where to start. As I said I had been to this site before and did not believe the stories I read could ever happen to me (yeah, I know, stupid me). But I strongly believe that I must stay on this, not just for myself but all of us, maybe I help the next guy.

I'm absolutely bummed that so far I have made just amateur errors that I know better than. Not recording the conversation, not asking for a formal complaint instead of assuming the sergeant would file it as a normal operating procedure. I actually had more faith in the cops and thought it was impossible that they would care so little about the actual law. I get the beat cop, but the guy whose in power to stop potential suits against his men and the city? Just naive of me. Disappointed in myself so far.

Paper trail starting tomorrow. Thanks. I'm very frustrated so far but will do better. I am sure my emotions are screwing me up a bit as well.

PBY - Some here carry hidden video & audio in case of just such an event. Why? We carry guns to protect us from violent criminals. Carrying recorders can protect us from Liar's. Food for thought my friend. Be safe & carry on.:dude:

Important*** be sure to check the laws of the state you are in to verify you can record video and/or audio in that location.
 
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Beantownfan321

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Nov 24, 2012
Messages
39
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Space Coast FL
I never claimed such, actually it's to the contrary, I am. This sergeant basically told me that he would happily put me in the position where he could accidentally kill me and violate my civil rights just because he does not want to risk his safety (his job description)

I highly doubt that. Your story (while I don't know you, but again, give you the benefit of the doubt) just keeps getting worse and worse for the cops. Maybe it's true, I don't know. I wasn't there. But, it just sounds.....odd.

and personally does not believe you and I should carry, regardless of the law.

That's his right.

In his eyes I am lucky he did not kill me as that was a potential and acceptable outcome.

Did he say that? Or are you inferring that?

In essence I saw it as a veiled threat that if I continue to carry I should expect that as a potential outcome, he had no intention of stopping the harassment. No offense dude, I got an issue with that.

I would too.

I could care less about this cop and what happens to him ever. This swine is not my countryman, he is not my brother, and I have nothing but contempt for him and his blue brothers because of it. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps you like people saying things like that to you. Unfortunately I'm not ok with a guy paid to protect me telling me that his killing me for exercising my rights is legitimate. It's one thing to lie after the fact, it's another to brazenly state it outright to my face.

He actually said that? :confused:

My opinion is that we should disbanded all police forces.

Yeah, ask Somalia how well that works for them.

Cops have much in common with organized crime, or racketeering.

Ok.

Cops are represented by public unions that bribe politicians to steal taxpayer money and give it to the cops.

Broad brush you have there....

Public unions have no place in our country and all must be disbanded as criminal organization since contracts are not negotiated at arms length, that is, there is no one representing the taxpayer at the table.

Actually, unions have done a ton of good for this country. 40 hour work weeks, fair pay, minimum wage, overtime, benefits, etc. all came from the work of the unions.

And yes, there is someone representing the taxpayer. The City council or county commissioners do. Perhaps you're not so familiar with how contracts with government employees work?

Unions try to get their members the most money for the least work, or conversely, their role is to supply the taxpayer with the least amount of benefits for the highest price.

Yeah, sure.

Taxpayers cannot afford to pay civil servants six figure pensions to work twenty years, no one would ever agree to such an arrangement without coercion.

Well, most pensions are not 6 figures. Most pensions require more than 20 years. Please educate yourself.

As to the good cops, they are as much to blame for allowing their organization to be run by the most corrupt while not standing up when they see unconstitutional behavior. It is readily apparent that cops care about their jobs security, safety and pension before the Constitution.

Where did you get that broad brush?

The best part about it though is that these cops will never see their pension as they were screwed by the politicians and union leaders. HA!!!

Thanks.

That's why I came here, thanks for the advice. Oh wait, you did not give me any advice.

S/He did. You apparently missed it. I did too.

Truth is I did not want to reinvent the wheel, I was hoping that someone had been through this and put together a list of steps to be taken. I've already screwed up the process because I was in the dark, I'm pissed about missing things I should have done. One would think that a forum like this that has these issues come up all the time would already have a link directly to "Harassed by cops for OC or CC? Click Here for help and advice."

Maybe you should contact a civil rights attorney?

Seriously, isn't it in each of our best interest to push every incident towards justice so that each and every one of us is safer? Make every city/state/PD waste their money on these things and push them closer to bankruptcy. I'll do the work and when I am done I will wrap it all up and put together a process along with any written documents I created.

Good luck with that.

I think you missed the point by a wide margin here. It was meant as a comparison to what a minority would go through if this happens to someone with my background.

Your background? Can you elaborate?

I am a corporate/contract attorney,

Ok, call in a favor from another attorney friend who knows civil rights/firearms law.

which means I am intelligent and can write and understand complicated issues.

So someone else cannot?

The process we are discussing actually merits very little intellect at all.

And yet, you're confused by it, and are asking anonymous posters on an internet message board for legal advice. For someone so intelligent who can understand complicated issues, you sure seem lost in this fairly simple problem. (Your words, not mine)

It is simply a process created by lawyers and politicians to keep everyone else out and favor themselves. Unless you are part of the system you can never avail yourself of the system. Civil procedure is not complicated, it just long and tedious, and you don't have time to learn it unless you get a job with the government or a defense attorney, both willing to pay you a salary while you learn. It is how the system locks 99% of the people out of getting justice.

You're a lawyer, and bash lawyers? Cool....:rolleyes:

Even when the government/police/corporations have harmed a person it is usually difficult to get a verdict against them simply because of the costs involved. You are not even allowed to play. And that is what the cops are doing to me here, they are trying to get me to give up the issue.

My advice? Hire a lawyer.
 
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