Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: This is a perfect example of how to conduct yourself on a Police Open Carry Call

  1. #1
    Regular Member RugerP95DC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Board Of Directors OKOCA
    Posts
    154

    This is a perfect example of how to conduct yourself on a Police Open Carry Call

    This guy was calm, stated the facts, was not militant, and was able to go on his way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsxxR...eature=related

  2. #2
    Regular Member RugerP95DC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Board Of Directors OKOCA
    Posts
    154
    after watching this again, I retract my statement about him being calm, he was kind of a jerk to the police officer, he could have had a better conversation.

    Dustin

  3. #3
    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    300
    What requirement does he have to give his name, first or last?

  4. #4
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    Yes, he was being an asshat. Like a broken record, kept saying the same things over and over. Would not even give them his first name. No way I would have acted like that.
    He was a person exerting his rights and liberty~guess I am an asshat too.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-20-2012 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Soften edited quote
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  5. #5
    Regular Member cbxer55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Midwest City, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    He was a person exerting his rights and liberty~guess I am an asshat too.
    I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

    See the second post by the same person who started this thread.
    Last edited by cbxer55; 11-20-2012 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

    See the second post by the same person who started this thread.
    The officer illegally stopped him, stole his gun, and YOU think he was the asshat? It is because of people like him that the police find they cannot hassle others. It is because others submit and give up their rights that we still have problems.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  7. #7
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    At least the Sergeant is aware of when someone can and cannot be detained....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  8. #8
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    When the cops stop you and you're doing nothing illegal, immoral, or even fattening, it's very important to determine WHY you are being stopped. If you'll note, Officer Friendly was very reticent to articulate any allegations of illegality.

    At a time like that, it's vitally important NOT to allow Officer Friendly to be in charge of the conversation and steer it towards his ends.
    Ask if he's investigating a crime, again and again ad nauseum if need be and Do NOT allow him to further the interrogation until the question is answered.

    I can only point to one small example of this, a personal one between me and Sergeant Chapel of the Gwinnet County (Georgia) Police Department after I was detained for peacefully exercising at a public park. - - -

    "Gentlemen, I am trying to finish my walk. Can I do it, please? I’m being detained for suspicion of something who-… You guys won’t tell me what it is."
    Sgt. Chapel, "You obviously don’t live around here because you have a Forsyth County permit, right?"
    "I’m sure –… Can someone say something I’m being suspicious of? Elucidate something from the Georgia Code, or Gwinett Code, that says…"
    Sgt. Chapel, "Here’s one for you, here’s one for you, all right… You have a permit that says you live in Forsyth County, all right? Did you walk all the way here from Forsyth County?"
    "I have a permit that was issued in Forsyth County. Am I restricted to the bounds of Forsyth County?
    Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive down here?"
    Sgt. Chapel, "You know, your permit is a privilege as well as a right. It can be taken away from you as well."
    "By the Probate Court Judge, would you like the number?"
    Sgt. Chapel, "We have the number."
    Sgt. Chapel, "and when you’re given a permit you’re expected to cooperate a little bit with law enforcement."
    "Actually, I’m required to cooperate; as required by law."

    Sgt. Chapel, "Why aren’t you?"
    "What am I not doing that’s required?"
    Sgt. Chapel (silence)

    "What Am I Not Doing That’s Required, Sergeant Chapel?
    Sgt. Chapel (silence)
    Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, sir, or did you walk here?"

    "What...am...I...not...doing...that’s...required.. .Sergeant Chapel?"
    Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, or did you walk here?"

    "What...Am...I...Not...Doing...That’s...Required.. .Sergeant Chapel?"
    Sgt. Chapel, "There you go, right there."
    (At that point, Sgt Chapel departs the immediate area, either distracted by something shiny or perhaps thought he'd left the iron on at home. Either way he decided he had better places to be and better things to do than continue his 'interrogation'.
    "You see? I still haven’t been told what what I’m doing wrong yet. I’m rapidly losing my target heartbeat here, guys."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 11-20-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    210

    Re: This is a perfect example of how to conduct yourself on a Police Open Carry Call

    He handled that like a boss.

    But how do you get over the "oh crap I'm going to jail after the SS tasers and beats me" feeling???

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    SNIP He was a person exerting his rights and liberty..
    +1

    There is nothing in the Bill of Rights requiring rights to be exercised politely. If we require certain rights to be exercised politely, we're implying that those who can't or don't exercise them politely do not have those rights. What if a fella has a really hard time being polite in the face of indignity because of temperment?

    He was tense. Are we really going to require people who are tense when seized by police have to exercise their rights politely?

    His person was illegally seized as was his weapon.

    I think he did great! He even got the cop to admit on video that the cop did not have legal justification for the seizures. Nice trap, "Is that the only reason you stopped me?" Very nice.

    Regarding giving a first name, there is no requirement to cooperate even partially when not compelled by law to give a name. Notice that the cop tried the ID document demand. With the added tactic of coercion. "Need your ID, then we'll get you on your way." (emphasis added by Citizen). The cop just told him the illegal seizures of his person and gun would continue until he cooperated beyond the requirements of the law. Nasty little thug of a cop. Makes an ID document demand, adds coercion, and does it politely. No conscience in his way. Now, the ID document demand occurred early, before the cop's admission about no RAS. But, just because video viewers couldn't know the ID document demand was illegal doesn't mean the cop didn't know it. And, since the OCer couldn't know it, we have the cop trying to play on the citizen's supposed lack of information to help make the coercion stick. Furthermore, since the cop didn't immediately start reaching into the OCer's pocket for his wallet and ID, we have added evidence the cop knew his ID document demand was illegal. And, since the cop reverted to an attempt at a verbal first name, instead of continuing the demand for an ID document, or threatening citation for refusing to provide an ID document, we have further evidence the cop knew he had no authority to demand an ID document.

    Notice also the cop's specious justification for demanding identity. He didn't know whether the OCer was a prohibited possessor. Nice admission on video--no RAS, no probable cause.

    I think he deserves a medal for drawing out and proving some cops in that burg make it up as they go along and are willing to violate people's rights. Which raises two questions. How long have they been making it up and violating people's rights? And, in what other ways are they violating people's rights.


    You can find links to all the federal cases he mentioned here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Resources-Here!!
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-20-2012 at 06:41 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
    He handled that like a boss.
    But how do you get over the "oh crap I'm going to jail after the SS tasers and beats me" feeling???
    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Same way attorney's practice for court, same way officers practice to interrogate citizens, same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

    .... you practice scenarios, you practice answers, you become familiar with the laws (you don't have to be able to quote them, heck the Officers can't do that so it's not like you're going to convince them by saying it's State Code 11-22-27, sub-paragraph (e) (1)).

    You also remind yourself that even if you wind up spending a few hours in jail, your record can be expunged when the district attorney drops the case and the civil suit against the officers is won.

  12. #12
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    The guy did not want to stand there and have a convo with this cop and he was being detained how is he the "ass hat"? Why should this guy give up anymore than he has to which is nothing. The cop illegally stopped and seized his pistol and on top of that pointed it at him!!!!!!!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tulsa
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    +1

    There is nothing in the Bill of Rights requiring rights to be exercised politely. If we require certain rights to be exercised politely, we're implying that those who can't or don't exercise them politely do not have those rights. What if a fella has a really hard time being polite in the face of indignity because of temperment?

    He was tense. Are we really going to require people who are tense when seized by police have to exercise their rights politely?

    His person was illegally seized as was his weapon.

    I think he did great! He even got the cop to admit on video that the cop did not have legal justification for the seizures. Nice trap, "Is that the only reason you stopped me?" Very nice.

    Regarding giving a first name, there is no requirement to cooperate even partially when not compelled by law to give a name. Notice that the cop tried the ID document demand. With the added tactic of coercion. "Need your ID, then we'll get you on your way." (emphasis added by Citizen). The cop just told him the illegal seizures of his person and gun would continue until he cooperated beyond the requirements of the law. Nasty little thug of a cop. Makes an ID document demand, adds coercion, and does it politely. No conscience in his way. Now, the ID document demand occurred early, before the cop's admission about no RAS. But, just because video viewers couldn't know the ID document demand was illegal doesn't mean the cop didn't know it. And, since the OCer couldn't know it, we have the cop trying to play on the citizen's supposed lack of information to help make the coercion stick. Furthermore, since the cop didn't immediately start reaching into the OCer's pocket for his wallet and ID, we have added evidence the cop knew his ID document demand was illegal. And, since the cop reverted to an attempt at a verbal first name, instead of continuing the demand for an ID document, or threatening citation for refusing to provide an ID document, we have further evidence the cop knew he had no authority to demand an ID document.

    Notice also the cop's specious justification for demanding identity. He didn't know whether the OCer was a prohibited possessor. Nice admission on video--no RAS, no probable cause.

    I think he deserves a medal for drawing out and proving some cops in that burg make it up as they go along and are willing to violate people's rights. Which raises two questions. How long have they been making it up and violating people's rights? And, in what other ways are they violating people's rights.
    I agree 1000%. This cop clearly broke the law, trampled on this man's rights, and didn't care. This guy should make an example out of this cop and his department and sue the hell out of them. That's the only way you'll keep this sort of thing from happening over and over.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Hey! Ian! Good to hear from you!!

    Did you hear that VAPatriot enjoyed an evening of research at the Kings Park library recently? Now, I know something interesting and OC-related happened there, but I can't place it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    I guess I should be very thankful I live where I live...eh? After 42+ years of carry, mostly open carry, I have had three conversations with LE...None of which included: what is your name? I want to see your ID and CPL. or why are you carrying that...

    The officer's statements in my cases were:

    #1: Hunting? (only word spoken by the officer directly to me, I was ouside a grocery store purchasing camp supplies..getting ready to leave.) My answer to him was "Yep"...end of discussion.

    #2: Officer: when are you going to join our gun club...it's only $25 a year.

    #3: Officer: "what is it?" Me "CZ85" Officer "nice looking gun"

    That is it folks...I don't know where the jerk officers are hiding, but it ain't around me.

  16. #16
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Now, I know something interesting and OC-related happened there, but I can't place it.
    Wait, you mean that one time IanB and a bunch of like-minded asshats like yourself showed up to videotape the "Million Mom March" loons dispensing incorrect anti-gun information in a taxpayer funded public library conference room? The same public meeting which they advertised in the newspaper? That same meeting where "Judas" AKA Bob Ricker was gonna tell us all how evil guns are? The same meeting where one of the Mommies blurted out that asshat IanB "has a small penis"? (yes, it's on the video) Good times!!



    Part two:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM

    Part three: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0
    Last edited by IanB; 11-20-2012 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Link didn't work

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post


    Wait, you mean that one time IanB and a bunch of like-minded asshats...
    Yeah! That's the one!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank goodness)
    Posts
    296
    If some of you are willing to cooperate with illegal activities conducted by LEO's just so you can appear 'nice' then feel free to do so; but don't put down or insult others who choose to stand up for their rights and force bullies to cease their illegal detentions, searches, and / or seizures. Maybe if enough people make that conscious decision, these Gestapo-like PUBLIC SERVANTS will back down and realize that they are there to SERVE the very people they are harassing. Most LEO's do have good intentions and seek to honestly carry out their duties, even if they sometimes make honest mistakes in the way in which they carry out those duties. For those who continue to violate the civil rights of LAC's, lawsuits are the only way they will learn. When the city and the PD have to cough up substantial amounts of money because of a bone-headed bully, the entire agency will be retrained and life will be more pleasant for others who seek to simply live their lives peacefully exercising their rights and protecting themselves and others. Every OC'er should thank this man, be greatful for his willingness to stand up for his (and all of our) rights, and seek to be more like him during encounters such as this one. Know the law, know your rights, and don't be afraid to stand up for what you know is right. Of course, if you want to bow down to the unlawful actions of LEO's like the one in the video...feel free to do so; just be thankful that there are other people who are willing to stand up for your rights when you are not. I personally continue to choose to be a sheepdog rather than a sheep.
    Last edited by Springfield Smitty; 11-27-2012 at 05:36 AM. Reason: Spelling
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
    -Public Service Professional - I've done it all: LEO, FF, and EMT
    -Certified NRA Instructor
    -CPL / CCW (whatever other acronym you can think of for carrying a concealed pistol) Instructor
    -Co-founder of OKOCA

    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    OKC, OK (Heading back to MI very soon - thank goodness)
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by cbxer55 View Post
    I do not have a problem with him asserting his rights. But IMHO he was doing it to the nth degree. Come on, what's wrong with telling them your first name and carrying on a nice conversation, instead of being aggressive. I have had many encounters with police, and have never carried on like that. If I was the officer, I would have held him until the supervisor got on the scene. But that's just me.

    See the second post by the same person who started this thread.
    He did just that. The man with the triple chevrons on his sleeve is a sergeant. He was the cop's supervisor. Note that upon his arrival on scene he informed the LAC that he was free to go. He was well aware that his subordinate's actions were illegal and immediately corrected the injustice. Also note that at the beginning of the illegal detention the LAC requested that a supervisor be summoned to the scene because he knew that he was being detained, interrogated, and his property seized contrary to what the law allows. It is always a good idea to request the presence of a supervisor if you feel that a LEO is overstepping his bounds. It doesn't always work out the way it did in the video; but I would say that it does about 95% of the time. In the situations where it doesn't, it is most likely due to department policy being in violation of the law.
    Last edited by Springfield Smitty; 11-27-2012 at 05:55 AM. Reason: Grammar
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
    -Public Service Professional - I've done it all: LEO, FF, and EMT
    -Certified NRA Instructor
    -CPL / CCW (whatever other acronym you can think of for carrying a concealed pistol) Instructor
    -Co-founder of OKOCA

    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Anyone have another link to this? It has been taken down due to "copyright" reasons, but I have no clue how a video such as this could have copyrighted material in it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Ask boyscout399, he is the citizen who has made the copyright claim for the video. IM him, he is a member of OCDO.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/me...86-boyscout399
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Ask boyscout399, he is the citizen who has made the copyright claim for the video. IM him, he is a member of OCDO.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/me...86-boyscout399
    Maybe.....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Anyone have another link to this? It has been taken down due to "copyright" reasons, but I have no clue how a video such as this could have copyrighted material in it.
    When you shoot a video, a copyright is automatically applied to it. You own your video even if you don't register it. A video doesn't have to have music to be copyrighted content. It's against the law, and against youtube policy to just copy someone else's video. The reason I don't want copies of my video is because people make claims that aren't true in my name. When someone else uploads my video and 50,000 people view it, they think that when that uploader makes comments, that it's ME responding. I don't want other people pretending to be me. They also tend to assert things about me that are untrue. The most common is that I'm a law student. I've never been a law student, and claiming I'm a law student implies that only a law student could have an understanding of the law. It's really not that hard for the everyday man to learn the law and follow it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Here is a link to the original video uploaded the very day the incident occurred:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE
    Last edited by boyscout399; 11-30-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    I didn't realize this was your personal video boyscout that someone else had uploaded. And disregard the pm I sent you as I see you linked your upload in the thread.

    As for the people saying he seems rude, I don't think so. He comes across as polite, but keeps steering the conversation back to where he wants it instead of letting the cop take it where the cop wants it. And that is the trick in regards to stuff like this, keeping the ball in your court and not letting the interrogator go off on other things (in this case he's trying to ignore the law and proceed with an illegal stop while being "polite" about it in order to try and gain compliance since he is in the wrong).

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •