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Thread: The Great Debate- Virginia- To Tuck, or not to Tuck

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    The Great Debate- Virginia- To Tuck, or not to Tuck

    ive always felt that Clyde is a nice, literate guy. very supportive of civil rights.

    he was doing the virginia tuck with a .40 glock subcompact at his election party i went to on tuesday, he expressed his displeasure over MI law with me about why the holster hidden under my shirt was empty(no carry w/o cpl in places that sell alcohol w/o permission) i think he would have been a great sheriff, at least compared to wrigglesworth.

    this week ive carried at CADL Holt, game hits, steak n shake, lowes, menards and for a walk around holt.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    ive always felt that Clyde is a nice, literate guy. very supportive of civil rights.

    he was doing the virginia tuck with a .40 glock subcompact at his election party i went to on tuesday, he expressed his displeasure over MI law with me about why the holster hidden under my shirt was empty(no carry w/o cpl in places that sell alcohol w/o permission) i think he would have been a great sheriff, at least compared to wrigglesworth.

    this week ive carried at CADL Holt, game hits, steak n shake, lowes, menards and for a walk around holt.
    Huh?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Huh?
    Clothing "tucked" behind holster.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Clothing "tucked" behind holster.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I believe that virginia tuck refers to carrying IWB with your shirt tucked in and the pistol grip showing.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yes, you are correct fozzy. The Virginia tuck was because IWBing with the portion above your pants not covered is considered OCing in Virginia, and OCing used to be required there to carry in places that sold alcohol for on site consumption. Being as the VCDL successfully had that changed, it is now an antiquated term.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Clothing "tucked" behind holster.

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    Makes a quick and simple transition between CC and OC.

    Said to have originated in Va. back when CC was forbidden in Restaurants that served alcohol, but OC was legal.

    Now either OC or CC is legal, but no consumption if CCing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    THIS is the VIRGINIA TUCK:


    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    List Your Open Carry Experiences Here

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Clothing "tucked" behind holster.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Actually, no. The Virginia Tuck is carrying in an exposed IWB.

    And Clyde who I have seen many times Mexican carries his Glock *shudders*
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp

    Clothing "tucked" behind holster.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Actually, no. The Virginia Tuck is carrying in an exposed IWB.

    And Clyde who I have seen many times Mexican carries his Glock *shudders*
    That might be the description of the Michigan Tuck, but it doesn't properly describe the Virginia Tuck.

    When transitioning from CC to OC from either IWM or OWB by tucking the garment behind the grip/holster so as to fully expose the normal visibility = Virginia Tuck.

    Your not from around these parts (Va) are you.


    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-19-2012 at 09:21 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What you have shown above is normal open carry. All parts of the firearm and holster are exposed. Your own Virginia gun forums describe the Virginia tuck as IWB with grip exposed.

    http://vagunforum.net/carrying/conce...538-41765.html
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...uck-tgifs.html
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...pen-carry.html
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...k-as-I-know-it

    This is Virginia Tuck, is it not? You take a normally concealed firearm (IWB) and expose the grip to avoid anti-CC laws.

    Last edited by griffin; 11-19-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    This is called normal open carry. All parts of the firearm and holster are exposed. Your own Virginia gun forums describe the Virginia tuck as IWB with grip exposed.

    http://vagunforum.net/carrying/conce...538-41765.html
    Virginia Tuck is open carry - that is the point of it. Whether "all parts" are visible or not means nothing. In Virginia the test is that it be recognizable as a gun and not hidden from common observation. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    The sole part that satisfies the definition for Virginia Tuck is the manner in which the transition is made from what would be CC to OC.

    I used the Virginia Tuck today when I tucked my leather jacket behind my holstered 1911 when I entered a restaurant for dinner. When I took my jacket off, I was still OCing. Both conditions of OC are very normal here in Virginia.

    In the previous picture, the man's gun would be hidden if his T-shirt were not tucked behind it. While the holster would likely project out, the gun would be "hidden from common observation" = CC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    --snip--

    This is Virginia Tuck, is it not? You take a normally concealed firearm (IWB) and expose the grip to avoid anti-CC laws.

    Nope that is definitely not Viginia Tuck. That is simply inside the waist band OC in Virginia - there is no "tuck."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Virginia Tuck is open carry - that is the point of it. Whether "all parts" are visible or not means nothing. In Virginia the test is that it be recognizable as a gun and not hidden from common observation. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    The sole part that satisfies the definition for Virginia Tuck is the manner in which the transition is made from what would be CC to OC.

    I used the Virginia Tuck today when I tucked my leather jacket behind my holstered 1911 when I entered a restaurant for dinner. When I took my jacket off, I was still OCing. Both conditions of OC are very normal here in Virginia.

    In the previous picture, the man's gun would be hidden if his T-shirt were not tucked behind it. While the holster would likely project out, the gun would be "hidden from common observation" = CC.
    In Michigan it is a gray area and it is typically recommended to NOT open carry that way unless you have a CPL and are not in a place listed under 28.425o.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Nope that is definitely not Viginia Tuck. That is simply inside the waist band OC in Virginia - there is no "tuck."
    That's why I quoted all the firearms forums including Virginia forums. They all state that is Virginia Tuck. The whole point is IWB-OC is an oxymoron. Part is concealed, part is OC. That's where I got the picture, from them discussing it. I thought it came about from transitioning into previously CC-banned areas like bars. You just move your shirt behind the handle, and your CC weapon is now visible. What you show is traditional OC that people in 44 states do. There's nothing special about it.

    I have seen no one call VA Tuck what you do. Got any cites or forum posts describing it the way you do?

    But hey, what do I care?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    In Michigan it is a gray area and it is typically recommended to NOT open carry that way unless you have a CPL and are not in a place listed under 28.425o.
    People in Virginia have been arrested for IWB-OC for carrying concealed, just like Michigan.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    That's why I quoted all the firearms forums including Virginia forums. They all state that is Virginia Tuck. The whole point is IWB-OC is an oxymoron. Part is concealed, part is OC. That's where I got the picture, from them discussing it. I thought it came about from transitioning into previously CC-banned areas like bars. You just move your shirt behind the handle, and your CC weapon is now visible. What you show is traditional OC that people in 44 states do. There's nothing special about it.

    I have seen no one call VA Tuck what you do. Got any cites or forum posts describing it the way you do?

    But hey, what do I care?
    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    People in Virginia have been arrested for IWB-OC for carrying concealed, just like Michigan.
    Oh really - all of the firearms forums all state? Exaggerate much?

    Pray tell us in your own words what you think Virginia Tuck is.

    IWB-OC is not an oxymoron under Va. law. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    Agree that there is nothing special about it, it just is a convenient transition. Insofar as other cites - can I quote you? You just defined it the same way. Virginia Tuck has been consistently defined/described by VCDL in the same manner as I have done. I beleive a VCDL member coined the expression.

    Arrested for IWB-OC in Va. Please cite.
    Not withstanding that, someone can be arrested for anything........even pointing their finger conversationally. That individual was charged with Brandishing, though he never touched, gestured or referred to his OC handgun. I have seen someone charged with carrying a concealed weapon when OCing, but never heard of someone being arrested for OC when carrying concealed in Va. - you see OC is legal w/o a permit.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-20-2012 at 04:14 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    For what's it worth, why are we arguing the Virginia tuck in the Michigan forum?

    My two cents: I have seen the phrase "Virginia tuck" used to describe both IWB-OC and tucking a shirt behind the gun, it has been applied more to the latter, me thinks.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Oh really - all of the firearms forums all state? Exaggerate much?
    I'm not sure to what you are referring, other than maybe you misunderstood my reference to normal, legal OC in 44 states (or whatever the number is).
    Pray tell us in your own words what you think Virginia Tuck is.
    IWB carry with handle showing (your shirt is tucked behind the handle).
    Virginia Tuck has been consistently defined/described by VCDL in the same manner as I have done.
    Cite?

    Here is a thread in vagunforum.net that describes VA Tuck just as I did, and many people are discussing it including a former LEO who is a current firearms instructor and stated The Virginia Tuck concept has been hotly debated for a long time. There is no clear cut answer as Virginia Tuck is not a rule of law. As a former LEO, and now a civilian who CC's daily, I could see it viewed either way. I always advise my students that if you need to OC, do it in a dedicated OC holster to avoid that grey area.
    Arrested for IWB-OC in Va. Please cite.
    That same thread mentions someone who was doing the Virginia Tuck and a LEO arrested him for CC because half of his gun was concealed.
    never heard of someone being arrested for OC when carrying concealed in Va. - you see OC is legal w/o a permit.
    That's what I was talking about, being arrested for CC because half of the gun is hidden.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Nope that is definitely not Viginia Tuck. That is simply inside the waist band OC in Virginia - there is no "tuck."
    Read back a few pages.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1850798
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Virginia tuck

    Ok, I am sorry I asked!
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    For what's it worth, why are we arguing the Virginia tuck in the Michigan forum?
    Um, because someone brought it up?
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok, I am sorry I asked!
    I hear you Raggs! Wow talk about beating a dead horse to death..Yah! Getty up! It;s a battle of the Mongo's here when it comes to will power...

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  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The Great Debate- Virginia- To Tuck, or not to Tuck

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    ive always felt that Clyde is a nice, literate guy. very supportive of civil rights.

    he was doing the virginia tuck with a .40 glock subcompact at his election party i went to on tuesday, he expressed his displeasure over MI law with me about why the holster hidden under my shirt was empty(no carry w/o cpl in places that sell alcohol w/o permission) i think he would have been a great sheriff, at least compared to wrigglesworth.

    this week ive carried at CADL Holt, game hits, steak n shake, lowes, menards and for a walk around holt.
    Clyde doesn't Virginia tuck, he Mexican carries that Glock .40. Him and I have had several conversations about how he should get a quality IWB holster!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The Great Debate- Virginia- To Tuck, or not to Tuck

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Virginia Tuck is open carry - that is the point of it. Whether "all parts" are visible or not means nothing. In Virginia the test is that it be recognizable as a gun and not hidden from common observation. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    The sole part that satisfies the definition for Virginia Tuck is the manner in which the transition is made from what would be CC to OC.

    I used the Virginia Tuck today when I tucked my leather jacket behind my holstered 1911 when I entered a restaurant for dinner. When I took my jacket off, I was still OCing. Both conditions of OC are very normal here in Virginia.

    In the previous picture, the man's gun would be hidden if his T-shirt were not tucked behind it. While the holster would likely project out, the gun would be "hidden from common observation" = CC.
    The Virginia Tuck may be OC in Virginia, but it is a grey area in Michigan. There has been at least one person tripped up and charged with CCW because if it. When the police officer was asked how she knew the person was carrying if it was concealed, the officer responded "I am a trained observer".

    I think the case was plead out.


    Michigan Open Carry, Inc. recommends and has always recommended that "open carry" in Michigan should be only with a fully outside of the waistband holster.
    Last edited by TheQ; 11-20-2012 at 11:00 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    OK, what is mexican carry?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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